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| Coolza (Freeza & Cooler Fusion) vs ...; See Note | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 28 2013, 02:55 PM (1,556 Views) | |
| Zenet | Jul 28 2013, 06:36 PM Post #16 |
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So its before Goku landed on Yardrat? |
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| + Pointer | Jul 28 2013, 06:38 PM Post #17 |
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in this timeline goku destroyed frieza and left namek before the explosion .....went back to earth and keep training for 1 year |
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| Zenet | Jul 28 2013, 06:40 PM Post #18 |
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Oh I see now. Though why do you think he trained? Couldn't Roshi be talking about Goku's Zenkai from Namek? EDIT: Just remembered Goku didn't receive a Zenkai from Namek. So must have trained. Edited by Zenet, Jul 28 2013, 06:52 PM.
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| EMIYA | Jul 28 2013, 06:54 PM Post #19 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
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There 3 lines by Cooler dictating Goku's strength. The first one is that he can see how Freeza was defeated, but still questions it. The second one, during the rematch, he puts in more confidence, saying that Goku was good enough to defeat his brother. The third one is when he sees SSJ Goku, and realizes the true way his brother lost. it does not contradict the other statements, it only shows the true reason why his brother was defeated and from Cooler's expectations, easily as it was implied that Base Goku would have at least had to have put up good fight against Freeza by Coolers expectations. What we have is SSJ Goku>5th Form Cooler>KK20 Goku>100% Freeza~Base Goku Rejuvinated(By Coolers expectations)>~4th Form Cooler>Base Goku (beginning of Movie 5) There's evidence to suggest Goku actually got some sort of zenkai considering he went from being practically one shotted by Cooler, to actually holding an edge against him in the rematch. Edited by EMIYA, Jul 28 2013, 06:54 PM.
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| + Pyrus | Jul 28 2013, 07:19 PM Post #20 |
 
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Roshi was specifically referring to Goku gaining power after "returning [from Namek]." |
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| Zenet | Jul 28 2013, 07:53 PM Post #21 |
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Cooler could've assumed that Goku's superior skills gave him the match against a suppression form of Freeza. Cooler went straight to use the 5th form Instead of lessening the suppression of his 3rd form like Freeza going 100%. Cooler may be unable of to do this staying as his initial 3rd form only? So you could get this SSJ Goku > Cooler 5th form > 100% Freeza > Base Goku > initial 3rd Freeza ~ initial 3rd Cooler |
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| EMIYA | Jul 28 2013, 08:44 PM Post #22 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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4th Form Cooler was at a disatvantage against Base Goku, once he transformed he retrained a massive edge. Until otherwise stated, we hae to assume Cooler is fighting at his full power and thus needs to transform. The problem with a suppression Freeza, especially a very low one because even if Cooler was only talking about 50% Freeza, that would still make Movie 5 Goku massively ahead of his Namek Arc self, is that its a contradictory notion. Until its otherwise specified in some way, it's only natural that when Cooler refers to his brother, he's referring to 100% form or at least close to it. Context would say that yes, Cooler should know about his brother, his transformations and his power. Where as lines in movie 3, we have to infer that the group is referring to 1st Form Freeza, both under the aspect that Freeza's transformations were never known and that people like Turles and the others would not have known even if Freeza's transformations had been shown in the manga already. Whenever a character is mentioned, you would always infer the highest level that was shown at the time. In this case 100% Freeza. This is the same way at the beginning we would infer that Dabura is initially at SPC. Then we'd look at the context and for Dabura we would fin out that know, he's not at SPC, we'd have to lower him down. Now with Cooler and Goku. We have 2 statements saying Base Goku could have, with effort, beaten Freeza. Context says that yes, Cooler being a member of Freeza's family, knowing about transformations and what not, should know about Freeza's power especially when there seems to be no indication that Freeza or his family ever trained in their life time beyong apparently family scuffles to put "dirt on Freeza" Until transformation, Goku doesn't note that Cooler is stronger than Freeza, thus context there says 4th Form Freeza>4th Form Cooler Goku uses a Kaio-Ken which proves ineffective against Cooler. Context says that Goku before using SSJ, would want to utilize his most powerful technique, which would be KK20. Judging from Goku's counter against Cooler in his second match, context would say that either A.) The Death Beam has a good sized amp to it) or B.) Goku received a zenkai after the senzu bean) Going by the second we might have it as: Freeza: 100 Goku (After senzu bean): 100 Cooler: 90 Goku: 80 With this, Cooler's statement is understandable. He can see how Goku could prove a threat initially, but still be uncertain, while afterwards, his confidence would be more precise. Another point is that while the notion of 4th Form Cooler<4th Form Freeza is implied, it is never implied to be a significantly large gap. I'd also like to point the implication that yes, Cooler can indeed sense ki. While Cooler's men wear scouters, Cooler is never once seeing with one on. We know Freeza needed one and anytime he didn't have one, was just because they were broken. For Cooler, he's never shown having one and still makes the remarks that Goku could have taken on his brother. |
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| + Pyrus | Jul 28 2013, 08:50 PM Post #23 |
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He also knew that Goku wasn't dead after tumbling into the waterfall, citing his strength if I recall correctly. |
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| EMIYA | Jul 28 2013, 09:01 PM Post #24 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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I can keep getting this image of reading somewhere that Cooler somehow already knew Instantaneous Movement and used it to escape from the sun. I know its never stated in movie 6, but is there like anything in Daiz. or something for Cooler and/or Meta Cooler? He had to get out of the sun in some way unless the initial explosion blew him out of the gravitational pull of the sun, but its something I'd like to know if possible. |
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