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| Whart is unlimited in DBZ; Mostly on the Androids and Buu | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 27 2013, 03:18 AM (741 Views) | |
| + miguelnuva | Jul 27 2013, 03:18 AM Post #1 |
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A question came to my mind when thinking about Buu and the Androids. 17,18 and I think 16 are said to have unlimited energy but due they mean Ki is unlimited or that they don't get tired or both? Would it be better to say the Androids have Unlimited Stamina or Unlimited Ki? Now for Buu. Buu can keep regenerating and doesn't take damage unless it is two Buu's fighting so what would be have? Unlimited What? |
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Jul 27 2013, 03:32 AM Post #2 |
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They have an unlimited supply of ki, and never get fatigued from using their ki to combat. |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jul 27 2013, 04:49 AM Post #3 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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The Androids don't have ki. They have an energy that simulates ki, and infinite energy doesn't mean infinite strength. Ki or ki-like force is only as strong as the person's body is able to exploit. The android's bodies have a limit to how much energy they can exploit, but that energy never runs out. When they lose that energy, it simply regenerates itself. This doesn't happen with characters with natural bodies like Goku. Goku can manipulate his ki, and increase his "battle power" by screwing with the flow and concentration, but his actual ki amount is the same regardless of if he's suppressed or powered up. Ki amount itself doesn't equate to battle power, concentration and flow have everything to do with it. Ki only goes down as a natural bodied character's condition declines, this of course excludes the Androids due to the fact that they both don't get fatigued, and their reserve constantly regenerates. |
![]() The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| SuperSaiyan1993 | Jul 27 2013, 02:31 PM Post #4 |
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Super Saiyan among Super Saiyans
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Buu's regeneration is like a diamond; only diamonds can cut diamonds. Only Buu can harm Buu. Besides that, Buu's regen is virtually unlimited. As for the androids, looks like Ketchup's got you covered |
| We Super Saiyans are in a league of our own. | |
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Jul 27 2013, 03:52 PM Post #5 |
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How do you explain Future Android (17,18) having less energy than present 17,18 if energy never runs out ? |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jul 27 2013, 03:57 PM Post #6 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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That's not entirely true about the Boos, but it is on the right track. Boo vs Boo definitely does far more damage than Non-Boo vs Boo, but Boo can be overwhelmed with raw power. Vegito was doing quite a number on Boohan before he allowed himself to get absorbed, and there's the fact that Goku was able to obliterate Kid Boo with the Genki Dama. So your statement is generally correct, but there is the possibility of Boo being overwhelmed with raw power from regular characters, but it takes A LOT to do so.
They don't have less energy, and you're confusing "energy" with "power". Simple energy is not what equates to power. The concentration and physical ability to manipulate that energy factors into this over-all "power" as well. If the Androids in the present were built sturdier than the ones of the future, than this explains the discrepancy. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jul 27 2013, 04:02 PM.
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![]() The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| SuperSaiyan1993 | Jul 27 2013, 04:20 PM Post #7 |
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Super Saiyan among Super Saiyans
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I agree. One question though regarding Buu's stamina comes to mind. Buu seemed the most worn-down and fatigued in the form of Good Buu losing to Kid Buu. Did Super Buu and Buuhan suffer from the same effect? Although they were outclassed by Gohan and Vegito, it seems like every time they regenerated, they regained their stamina as opposed to the Good Buu battle |
| We Super Saiyans are in a league of our own. | |
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Jul 27 2013, 05:44 PM Post #8 |
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The energy gives them power. They are physicly the same so that doesn't explain it... |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jul 27 2013, 06:46 PM Post #9 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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You can't possibly know that. And you're ignoring the point I made about how battle power and raw ki itself are NOT the same thing. A person's ki or ki-like force capacity is only as strong as their body is, or their ability allows them to be. If the androids' bodies in the present time line were built sturdier than their future counterparts, or modified during the period of their shut-down, than they would be stronger than themselves in the future. Also, you can't base your argument on anything that has to do with their "ki", being that the one person who made this comparison can't sense them to begin with. From Trunks's POV, their condition needs to be evaluated specifically by their physical power, not their ki or ki-like force ability. Their physical power is separate from their "ki", and their battle power as we understand it in the series is strictly dictated by a combination of both those elements. What's confusing you is the perception that the battle power as read on scouters is specifically a gauging of ki in the body. However, that reading can't tell the difference between amount and concentration, and simply reads them as the same thing. This is why Earth fighters can screw with their readings so well, because they have the skills to re-configure their output. For example, Goku and Piccolo concentrating their ki (as observed by Raditz) increases the reading on a scouter, even if the fighter's ki amount doesn't increase. So the reading on a scouter itself is only as accurate as the perception of the fighter using the scouter. ie. Raditz was smart enough to figure out that Goku and Piccolo could increase their power by concentrating their ki, other fighters like Jheese and Butta were too stupid to, and this is why they failed to see that Goku was in a suppressed state. Just to bring your attention to something, you can't actually "increase" ki amount unless you use a technique like the Kaioken, or transform your body all together. The reason to this is because the body has a limited capacity for ki, and the capacity is entirely dictated by the person's physical state or condition. This is the reason Goku can't use the Kaioken for extended periods of time without risking having his body be obliterated by the rising ki amount. He needs to modify his body with a transformation if he actually wants to use a higher level of ki in a safe way for an extended period of time. Trunks's time traveling screwed up the time continuum in more ways than one. Perhaps one of the most adverse effects was Goku's heart ailment infecting him later than it did in the original time line. Who's to say that 17 and 18 weren't built sturdier than they were in the original continuum, or modified when Gero shut them down to reprogram them? We don't know anything about Trunks's continuum other than what is shown. We don't know how the Androids were developed in his time, or if they were shut down and then re-programmed. Gero was far more involved with Android development in the present continuum, being that not only did he make himself into an android, but he created two entirely new ones (16 and 19) that weren't in Trunks's continuum. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jul 27 2013, 07:14 PM.
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![]() The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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Jul 27 2013, 07:10 PM Post #10 |
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You got this wrong if you don't belive that ki and battle power are not conected or by your words the same thing... Battle power comes from ki, but its called battle power instead of ki power. Warrior’s power was judged largely by the amount of ki they had trough scouter or sencing, and that is all you nead to know... Trunks noticed strenght of them in the way 18 is fighthing. He pretty much was already handling his own against 2 Androids so why not take him serious. I don't understand why you explain how someone can't take some amount of ki in his body and all of that stuff. I never asked for it because i know about it. Because 17,18 are not fully mehanical like 16. That's why they are the same like Androids in future (exept in power). |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jul 27 2013, 07:21 PM Post #11 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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You're still missing the point that Goku and Piccolo could increase their battle power by concentrating ki, as observed by Raditz. Their ki amount doesn't change, the concentration of their existing ki does, and this is why their reading was higher than their resting states. But either way, your body allows a certain concentration as a "resting state". Most fighters can't modify this natural concentration, and that's why scouter readings can be screwed with so easily by fighters who can. Also, hiding ki is something that fighters do by somehow blending in with their surroundings. Their ki doesn't actually go down, they can just mask it. Ki and physical condition make up TRUE "battle power", not ki alone. If what you say is true, than the only thing that you'd have to do to increase what you perceive as "battle power" would be to train with ki, but physical training ALWAYS increases "battle power", pretty much stating that physical condition has everything to do with battle power, and of course, the other component to battle power is ki. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jul 27 2013, 07:29 PM.
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Jul 27 2013, 07:33 PM Post #12 |
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What Goku's and Piccolo's incrise in performing ki attack has anything to do with Future Androids ? |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jul 27 2013, 07:40 PM Post #13 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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I know I got sidetracked, but I'm simply trying to make a point that physical condition in combination with ki makes up battle power, and not specifically raw ki alone. I was using Goku and Piccolo as an example of why raw ki amount is not battle power, being that they could increase their readings by concentrating it. If the Androids were physically stronger or sturdier built in the present time-line, then their battle power would of course be higher even if their over-all "ki" is the same. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jul 27 2013, 07:41 PM.
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Jul 27 2013, 07:49 PM Post #14 |
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It's probably all about the energy they have in the body, not actualy physicly because they cealrly never had any training or bodies like martial artists. |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jul 27 2013, 08:02 PM Post #15 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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Indeed, but Trunks could only go by what he observed, not what he sensed. If they were physically weaker, than that accounts for his perception of them being weaker, even if their "ki" was still infinite. |
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