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SSJ Multipliers; Here we are again
Topic Started: Jul 26 2013, 05:47 PM (2,772 Views)
SurRealistic
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Jonny Rivers

So there's been a lot of debate about this, not only on this forum but also all over the internet. One half goes with the "official" multiplier (x50 base) and the other half goes with the x10 multiplier, witch is easier to use in the Buu saga and in general (lets say that the 1st time they go SSJ its x50 and then the base increases by x5 and then its 10x base)

Witch multiplier do you use and why, and what are your other multipliers (ASSJ, USSJ, SSJ2, SSJ3, LSSJ...)

I cant really decide for the x10 multiplier yet but as for the x50 multiplier, for me it goes something like:
SSJ: x50 base
ASSJ: x70 base
USSJ: x90 base
SSJ2: x100 base
SSJ3: x400 base
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+ Pyrus
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Does a "no set multiplier" approach count?
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+ Havoc_Wreaker
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Popcorn

Yeah im inclined to believe that AT just made everyone as strong as he needed them to be. So i go with no set mutpliers as well
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StrawHatCrew
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In my opinion transformation do not have any multipliers. I just like to make it easier & say they attain (awesome) powers great enough to defeat/whoop anyone's a***, they are facing :lol: (& also like to think that they do not only attain/gain powers, as in Battle-Power, but also attain other powers/abilites that are not related, in any way, to Battle-Power), however, I think that multipliers are good to round the powers of a transformation up, so it might not be the exact BP level of the fighter, but it's close.

This quote also helps, the fact (at least in my opinion) that there are no multipliers:

Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P8.2-4
No.19: "Seems you've been watching things all along, but you missed hearing the most important thing. Vegeta, we already know all about your battle techniques."
Vegeta: "Even so, you looked pretty surprised when Kakarot became a Super Saiyan...In other words, your data from the battle with Freeza up to the present is estimated...We Saiyans can't be understood just by calculations..."

Vegeta essentially says that their (Saiyans) Power can't be just calculated (*cough* 50x Multiplier & every other Multiplier I'ver ever seen by fans *cough") & the power they (Saiyans) attain from transformation (might) also differ each time, they (Saiyans) transform. Also makes transformation & SSjin cooler & more awesome, in my opinion. :cool:
Edited by StrawHatCrew, Jul 27 2013, 01:23 AM.
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ObsessiveFanBoy
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I am Always Right... Unless When I'm Wrong

I posted this video back in my first thread for those who've never seen it. It's an interesting theory of just how SSJ really works (hence no multipliers)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL3RR6M4liw
Edited by ObsessiveFanBoy, Jul 26 2013, 07:29 PM.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

The only thing we know is that AT envisioned the original SSJ multiplier as a 10x increase for Goku. He was then corrected on this mistake and it was changed to a 50x increase for Goku.

This is about as official of a multiplier from AT that we've ever gotten.
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IllogicalGlory
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Furious

Brofist
Jul 26 2013, 07:33 PM
The only thing we know is that AT envisioned the original SSJ multiplier as a 10x increase for Goku. He was then corrected on this mistake and it was changed to a 50x increase for Goku.

This is about as official of a multiplier from AT that we've ever gotten.
Where was that actually recorded? I don't doubt, but it would be useful to know.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

IllogicalGlory
Jul 26 2013, 07:34 PM
Brofist
Jul 26 2013, 07:33 PM
The only thing we know is that AT envisioned the original SSJ multiplier as a 10x increase for Goku. He was then corrected on this mistake and it was changed to a 50x increase for Goku.

This is about as official of a multiplier from AT that we've ever gotten.
Where was that actually recorded? I don't doubt, but it would be useful to know.
I can't recall exactly where it was, an interview or something (and I'm sure someone can bring the exact quote up)

AT was talking about how when he first drew SSJ, he imagined it with a 10x increase for Goku but then after he was told that this wouldn't work because of Kaio-Ken, he'd have to change it up.
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Vertical
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Quote:
 
"At the time, it was made out that he was fifty times as strong when he became Super Saiyan, but that's a little extravagant. As far as my feelings as an author go, I think I drew it with the sense of it being a change of about Ten times what he had been up until then."
Whether he was talking about Base, KKx10, or KKx20 could be debated [though it is likely Base].
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StrawHatCrew
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Brofist
Jul 26 2013, 07:36 PM
IllogicalGlory
Jul 26 2013, 07:34 PM
Brofist
Jul 26 2013, 07:33 PM
The only thing we know is that AT envisioned the original SSJ multiplier as a 10x increase for Goku. He was then corrected on this mistake and it was changed to a 50x increase for Goku.

This is about as official of a multiplier from AT that we've ever gotten.
Where was that actually recorded? I don't doubt, but it would be useful to know.
I can't recall exactly where it was, an interview or something (and I'm sure someone can bring the exact quote up)

AT was talking about how when he first drew SSJ, he imagined it with a 10x increase for Goku but then after he was told that this wouldn't work because of Kaio-Ken, he'd have to change it up.
Here you go:

KanzenShuu/Herms Translation: Super-Exciting-Guide (Story Volume) - Akira Toriyama Interview

Here is what it says, if you don't want to click the link, I put up there (I put it up as a source anyway, for the people, who wouldn't believe me :lol: :p ):

Q. Why does Goku get blonde hair when he turns SS?

A. Toriyama says it's really kinda simple. He only uses one assistant (very rare for a mangaka) Mr. Matsuyama. When Goku became stronger Toriyama was looking for a way to express his strength and when they talked it over, they decided that by making his hair blonde, they'd kill two birds with one stone.

1. Matsuyama could save time by not having to fill in Goku's black hair which took long to dry.

2. He would look phsyically very different.

TORIYAMA ADDS!!!!!!! It became well known that SSJ was 50x stronger than the normal Goku but this became a mountain out of a molehill. As the author, he really intended him to just be 10x stronger than he previously was.
Edited by StrawHatCrew, Jul 27 2013, 05:17 PM.
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Super Vegetto
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Toriyama had in mind to use for SSJ only 10x boost, but that didn't quite fit in because later he introuduced us Frieza's suppression and Goku's abbility to use Kaio ken 20x.

In the end there is no way that SSJ was intended to be in every scene as 10x boost because that doesn't make any sence since first time Goku transformed...

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* Crashbreaka
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Captain Oblivious

I don't use a set multiplier either, I just start with it being large during Freeza Saga (yeah 50x or something), lower it during android saga, and then raise it again later on. Plot should be the main catalyst for the transformations boost IMO, not my own set number.
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Coolest
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I don't believe in set multipliers because that's a fan made concept. It isn't canon. Akira Toriyama made people as strong as the plot required, no more no less.
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FamousBueller
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Super Asian

well for me I use

First Time Super Saiyan: 50x base
Android Saga threw Buu Saga: 10x base
Ascended Super Saiyan: 1.5x ssj
Ultra Super Saiyan: 1.75x ssj
Super Saiyan 2: 2x ssj
Super Saiyan 3: 3x ssj
Golden Oozaru/Ssj4: 100x base
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* Ketchup Revenge
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

I've already made the "no multiplier" point multiple times.

Multipliers are good for power level estimations, but they're not practical when thinking about forms in relation to each other when it comes to power. For example, the SSj forms during the Boo Arc really seem to simply be written as "stronger than the previous form". Super Saiyan really doesn't appear to be noticeably stronger than Base, and is used in the sense to placate to the reader. Numbers were either forgotten about or irrelevant by this time in the series. It was simply how strong fighters were in relation to each other.
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