Clearin

Jul 27 2013, 04:51 PM

ObsessiveFanGuy

Jul 27 2013, 04:50 PM

Piccolo didn't say when Gohan "killed" Cell. That would be his enraged power.

He said when Gohan "fought" Cell.

The Base Saiyans weren't able to overflow the rest of the meter. Babidi and Dabura know jack about ki sensing.

Gohan has a rage boost when he fought Cell... I thought this was fact?

Dartlard

Jul 27 2013, 05:00 PM

Clearin

Jul 27 2013, 04:51 PM

ObsessiveFanGuy

Jul 27 2013, 04:50 PM

Piccolo didn't say when Gohan "killed" Cell. That would be his enraged power.

He said when Gohan "fought" Cell.

The Base Saiyans weren't able to overflow the rest of the meter. Babidi and Dabura know jack about ki sensing.

Gohan has a rage boost when he fought Cell... I thought this was fact?

You are right.

@ObsessiveFanguy The fact is the last push that Gohan sent to Cell was still ''fighting'' Cell, that's the last record of SSJ2 Kid Gohan's power, and Piccolo is referring to that power.

Vegeta might not be stronger than Enraged Kid Gohan Pre-Majin, but he should atleast be stronger than non-enraged CG Kid Gohan, which makes his Majin Boost all that more significant.

Clearin

Jul 27 2013, 05:00 PM

I'd disagree. There's a truckload of quotes that imply he did have a rage boost. Some of them are borderline flatout statements.

Clearin

Jul 27 2013, 05:00 PM

I'd disagree. There's a truckload of quotes that imply he did have a rage boost. Some of them are borderline flatout statements.

Quote:

 

A rage boost the entire time he was Super Saiyan 2? I wouldn't be sure of that, unless you were simply attributing Super Saiyan 2 as a manifestation of said rage, and then the burst at the end as something even deeper.

Quote:

 

Gohan: “I-I’m gradually starting to understand…What father means when he says I’m the only one who can defeat Cell…It seems that since long ago, whenever my anger flares up, I subconsciously begin fighting madly with outrageous power…So…father must be calculating on that…”

Quote:

 

Goku: “That’s it…That’s fine, Cell! Get Gohan angry…! If you do, you’ll experience true fear for the first time…”

Quote:

 

Goku: “…Wait for Gohan to get angry…! He’ll…probably…unleash his true power through anger, and suddenly display ferocious strength [ ] …To defeat Cell…The only thing we can do is place our hopes in this power of Gohan’s…”

Quote:

 

Goku: “In the Room of Spirit and Time, the dormant power sealed away deep, deep inside him began to be released. Why don’t we try asking him? How about it, Gohan? Did you think that dad and Cell’s fight just now was too incredible and you couldn’t keep up?”

Quote:

 

Vegeta: “Unfortunately, it seems he got carried away in peace and didn’t do any significant training. Our powers are higher than his now…Though I suppose there’s no telling what would happen if he snapped and went into a frenzy… ”

Quote:

 

Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone

Quote:

 

Gohan: “I-I am angry…! I’m angry, but…[it’s not] like it was ba-back then…”

Quote:

 

Gohan: “…Is that so?...He really does have tremendous ki, but…It doesn’t seem like so much so that there’s nothing I can do…[ ] …If I can only put out all of my true power…”

Clearin

Jul 27 2013, 05:10 PM

Quote:

 

A rage boost the entire time he was Super Saiyan 2? I wouldn't be sure of that, unless you were simply attributing Super Saiyan 2 as a manifestation of said rage, and then the burst at the end as something even deeper.

I'm sure of it.

May as well not be an a*** and give my actual reasoning for it.

Firstly the emphasis on the rage boosts.

Quote:

 

Gohan: “I-I’m gradually starting to understand…What father means when he says I’m the only one who can defeat Cell…It seems that since long ago, whenever my anger flares up, I subconsciously begin fighting madly with outrageous power…So…father must be calculating on that…”

Quote:

 

Goku: “That’s it…That’s fine, Cell! Get Gohan angry…! If you do, you’ll experience true fear for the first time…”

Quote:

 

Goku: “…Wait for Gohan to get angry…! He’ll…probably…unleash his true power through anger, and suddenly display ferocious strength [ ] …To defeat Cell…The only thing we can do is place our hopes in this power of Gohan’s…”

Goku's entire plan revolved around Gohan's rage boosts. As in the thing specific to Gohan, and not just a random form any Saiyan can achieve.. There was far too much emphasis placed on Gohan's hidden powers that he releases when he's mad for it to not come into play.

Also this:

There's also this quote:

Quote:

 

Goku: “In the Room of Spirit and Time, the dormant power sealed away deep, deep inside him began to be released. Why don’t we try asking him? How about it, Gohan? Did you think that dad and Cell’s fight just now was too incredible and you couldn’t keep up?”

Goku states that he noticed this potential in Gohan in the RoSaT, and unlike filler there's nothing to suggest that Gohan actually turned Super Saiyan 2 before the battle against Cell. So Goku was talking about the boost itself, and not the form.

And now a couple of things from the Buu saga:

Quote:

 

Vegeta: “Unfortunately, it seems he got carried away in peace and didn’t do any significant training. Our powers are higher than his now…Though I suppose there’s no telling what would happen if he snapped and went into a frenzy… ”

Vegeta makes it clear once again that he means Gohan's hidden powers. Since Gohan can already turn SSj2 at will in this saga he's obviously not referring to using anger to turn SSj2, he means using anger to gain more power.

And then this quote:

Quote:

 

Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone

"How you got angry and fought Cell" "Draw out all that power".
Goku flat out says he's referring to the Cell fight whilst talking about Gohan's hidden power, hidden power which Goku claims came out during that very fight. Remember that Gohan doesn't need rage to activate SSj2 in this saga.

Goku has borderline flat out stated that Gohan drew out his hidden power agaisnt Cell when he got angry and told him to do it again here.

Also referring to both above quotes: Even if he did need anger to turn SSj2, he'd still be weaker than SSj2 Vegeta/Goku so their quotes about Gohan being strongest when he's angry wouldn't make sense.

And lastly these quotes:

Quote:

 

Gohan: “I-I am angry…! I’m angry, but…[it’s not] like it was ba-back then…”

Quote:

 

Gohan: “…Is that so?...He really does have tremendous ki, but…It doesn’t seem like so much so that there’s nothing I can do…[ ] …If I can only put out all of my true power…”

Once again, Gohan can turn SSj2 at will in the Buu saga but emphasis on anger here (just like the Cell Games) is still present.

So in order to make me change my mind abut this I'd need all these quotes contradicted and something that suggests Gohan didn't get a rage boost. Until then it's as good as a fact that he had a rage boost to me.

Quote:

 

So you're saying two things?

One is that SSj2 Gohan as we saw him at the Cell Games would be more powerful than if Gohan just normally turned SSj2 there?

And the second would be that he got a second rage boost during the beam struggle?

Clearin

Jul 27 2013, 05:20 PM

Quote:

 

So you're saying two things?

One is that SSj2 Gohan as we saw him at the Cell Games would be more powerful than if Gohan just normally turned SSj2 there?

And the second would be that he got a second rage boost during the beam struggle?

That would be what I'm saying. Although I don't think the "second rage boost" stacked with the first or anything, just that he lost the first one when he lost his confidence then had another boost when he got it back, which reached it's peak during that final push.

ObsessiveFanGuy

Jul 27 2013, 05:24 PM

Clearin

Jul 27 2013, 05:20 PM

Quote:

 

So you're saying two things?

One is that SSj2 Gohan as we saw him at the Cell Games would be more powerful than if Gohan just normally turned SSj2 there?

And the second would be that he got a second rage boost during the beam struggle?

That would be what I'm saying. Although I don't think the "second rage boost" stacked with the first or anything, just that he lost the first one when he lost his confidence then had another boost when he got it back, which reached it's peak during that final push.

Okay. So you'd be more likely to believe that Teen Gohan could actually be the same power as his kid self, just lacking rage?

Clearin

Jul 27 2013, 05:10 PM

Quote:

 

A rage boost the entire time he was Super Saiyan 2? I wouldn't be sure of that, unless you were simply attributing Super Saiyan 2 as a manifestation of said rage, and then the burst at the end as something even deeper.

I'm sure of it.

May as well not be an a*** and give my actual reasoning for it.

Firstly the emphasis on the rage boosts.

Quote:

 

Gohan: “I-I’m gradually starting to understand…What father means when he says I’m the only one who can defeat Cell…It seems that since long ago, whenever my anger flares up, I subconsciously begin fighting madly with outrageous power…So…father must be calculating on that…”

Quote:

 

Goku: “That’s it…That’s fine, Cell! Get Gohan angry…! If you do, you’ll experience true fear for the first time…”

Quote:

 

Goku: “…Wait for Gohan to get angry…! He’ll…probably…unleash his true power through anger, and suddenly display ferocious strength [ ] …To defeat Cell…The only thing we can do is place our hopes in this power of Gohan’s…”

Goku's entire plan revolved around Gohan's rage boosts. As in the thing specific to Gohan, and not just a random form any Saiyan can achieve.. There was far too much emphasis placed on Gohan's hidden powers that he releases when he's mad for it to not come into play.

Also this:

There's also this quote:

Quote:

 

Goku: “In the Room of Spirit and Time, the dormant power sealed away deep, deep inside him began to be released. Why don’t we try asking him? How about it, Gohan? Did you think that dad and Cell’s fight just now was too incredible and you couldn’t keep up?”

Goku states that he noticed this potential in Gohan in the RoSaT, and unlike filler there's nothing to suggest that Gohan actually turned Super Saiyan 2 before the battle against Cell. So Goku was talking about the boost itself, and not the form.

And now a couple of things from the Buu saga:

Quote:

 

Vegeta: “Unfortunately, it seems he got carried away in peace and didn’t do any significant training. Our powers are higher than his now…Though I suppose there’s no telling what would happen if he snapped and went into a frenzy… ”

Vegeta makes it clear once again that he means Gohan's hidden powers. Since Gohan can already turn SSj2 at will in this saga he's obviously not referring to using anger to turn SSj2, he means using anger to gain more power.

And then this quote:

Quote:

 

Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone

"How you got angry and fought Cell" "Draw out all that power".
Goku flat out says he's referring to the Cell fight whilst talking about Gohan's hidden power, hidden power which Goku claims came out during that very fight. Remember that Gohan doesn't need rage to activate SSj2 in this saga.

Goku has borderline flat out stated that Gohan drew out his hidden power agaisnt Cell when he got angry and told him to do it again here.

Also referring to both above quotes: Even if he did need anger to turn SSj2, he'd still be weaker than SSj2 Vegeta/Goku so their quotes about Gohan being strongest when he's angry wouldn't make sense.

And lastly these quotes:

Quote:

 

Gohan: “I-I am angry…! I’m angry, but…[it’s not] like it was ba-back then…”

Quote:

 

Gohan: “…Is that so?...He really does have tremendous ki, but…It doesn’t seem like so much so that there’s nothing I can do…[ ] …If I can only put out all of my true power…”

Once again, Gohan can turn SSj2 at will in the Buu saga but emphasis on anger here (just like the Cell Games) is still present.

So in order to make me change my mind abut this I'd need all these quotes contradicted and something that suggests Gohan didn't get a rage boost. Until then it's as good as a fact that he had a rage boost to me.