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- SSJ Gotenks (Post-ROSAT) Vs SSJ Gogeta
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| SSJ Gotenks (Post-ROSAT) Vs SSJ Gogeta | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 25 2013, 02:26 PM (6,753 Views) | |
| IllogicalGlory | Jul 26 2013, 01:17 AM Post #106 |
Furious
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My cat can only sense where his litter box is. Wait. Did you mean Dabura? |
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| EMIYA | Jul 26 2013, 01:19 AM Post #107 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
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The only way Movie 12 Gogeta=Canon Gogeta is if Movie 12 Vegeta=Canon Vegeta and thus Goku has to lower himself down to Vegeta's level which very well may be possible. Dabura's statement is a clearly indication of a comment given in the series, he even went up and somehow was able to sense Kaioshina and Kibito and nothing explained that. The only thing we have is some conjecture that Dabura was some sort of Kaioshin or makoshin or whatever and was able to sense them. And yet later context indicates that Dabura can't sense jack crap. So what do you choose? You have to make a new call and work around the statement and when it doesn't work, you've got to cast it aside despite the fact that's clearly intended to be taken as truth. As for suppressing down to zero, maybe he can't. I say this because in Otherworld Goku couldn't fuse with anyone because they weren't on par with him. Strange, even if nobody was on his level, why couldn't he just suppress himself down to their level and try to initiate fusion? This comment says that Goku has a limit to how much he can actually suppress himself. So we get the same thing here. We have Goku thinking that fusion with Gohan can take on Gotenks Boo. Now if your using a 10x multiplier and other stuff, you might be able to work it in and actually make SSj3 Gogeta~Gotenks Boo But with 50x, to make it the same thing. You'd have to make the gaps between the characters much larger initially and for most caes, that ust doesn't seem to fit. |
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| + Pyrus | Jul 26 2013, 01:27 AM Post #108 |
 
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Gohan and Krillin both suppress to 0 on Namek, yet Goku can't do it in the Boo arc? And the power of Jack compels you: http://w11.zetaboards.com/Shinden_Reborn/single/?p=8086997&t=8297586 http://w11.zetaboards.com/Shinden_Reborn/single/?p=8087029&t=8297586 http://w11.zetaboards.com/Shinden_Reborn/single/?p=8087040&t=8297586 http://w11.zetaboards.com/Shinden_Reborn/single/?p=8087123&t=8297586 |
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| EMIYA | Jul 26 2013, 01:33 AM Post #109 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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Considering Goku couldn't suppress himself down to a level to fuse with those in Otherworld, apparently not. Continuity and Context, how do you see it? Goku can suppress down to 0 yet somehow can't suppress down to fuse with those in Othetworld. One of these is a contradiction, so if you think Goku can suppress down to 0, as I do myself, you have to take his comment about fusing and shove it up his ***, cause he clearly has no idea of what he's talking about. |
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| + Pyrus | Jul 26 2013, 01:35 AM Post #110 |
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He never said he tried and failed fusing with the inhabitants of Otherworld, now, did he? |
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| EMIYA | Jul 26 2013, 01:41 AM Post #111 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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6. Fusion [#BO2#FUS] Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P6.1-7 Context: after Goku laments that Gohan and Vegeta are dead Goku: “I coulda used Fusion…” Dende: “Fusion…! Merging together, right? That’s the specialty art of the people of Planet Metamor!” Goku: “So you know about it, Dende…! That’s right, some people from Metamor who I met in the afterlife taught me that art…It’s a merging technique which can only be performed if two people are fairly close in both power and body size…In other words, by having two people merge into one, they’re able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of. It really is incredible! Those two from Metamor were completely weak and gentle on their own, but by using Fusion they transformed into a substantial warrior! [ ] …I was just taught the art, but I ain’t never tested it out…There wasn’t anybody on par with me in the afterlife…” Again, why doesn't Goku just suppress himself down to their level? Even more so, Goku only mentions power relationshipls here so its not like Goku was saying that nobody was his size or shape. Also for Jack's 2nd one I think, where Babidi and Dabura may have read the power's inside, perhaps with the Kili reader...isn't hat more of a reason to say Base Saiyan's>Piccolo? Dabura and babidi check out seven people with the Kili reader, find out 3 of them have marvelous energy and pick them out. Which honestly might make sense if we take into account Dabura's piss poor sensing ability. If they were using a device already, they could've pointed out the 3 most powerful people there. |
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| SSJ | Jul 26 2013, 01:43 AM Post #112 |
 
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Perhaps he just wanted to try it at full power to see its full benefits. Maybe that explains why he didn't suppress himself to fuse. |
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| + Pyrus | Jul 26 2013, 01:46 AM Post #113 |
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I need to get Jack's post about this. That's a crowd clearer. |
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| EMIYA | Jul 26 2013, 01:49 AM Post #114 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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But why not just test it out. See what fusion is like, it's only 30 minutes and it'll give Goku a real idea of what its like when he actually fuses with someone. Then later on if he needs to he can try to test it out a person closer to his level if that ever happened. When you get a chance to do something that can be quite helpful, you're going to want to do it. It would be like if Goku broke his arm and someone came up said "Dude, Goku I've got this magic bean it heals all wounds, you should try it out" and gives a bean to a half dead guy and rejuvenates him and Goku goes "Nah, I don't want to, I'd rather get a better injury." Come on Goku, this is a possible once in a life time chance especially when you don't think you're coming back to Earth or some demon is about to attack, have some fun, test things out. |
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| + miguelnuva | Jul 26 2013, 01:51 AM Post #115 |
 
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@Brofist Goku needs someone the same size as him as well and maybe a dead body can't suppress? Goku might also need someone that is a simlar race to him like a human or saiayn or hybrid. There is no canon Gogeta. THe non canon Gogeta is movie 12 is the offical or canon Gogeta. THe Gogeta that is talked about in the manga is non canon not official, doesn't exist. |
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| + Kyouks | Jul 26 2013, 01:57 AM Post #116 |
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http://w11.zetaboards.com/Shinden_Reborn/single/?p=8032507&t=8088118 http://w11.zetaboards.com/Shinden_Reborn/single/?p=8032520&t=8088118 These help? As for the sensing thing, perhaps it has to do with dormant power? Herms said something like that once. Not too good at explaining it, so here. |
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| EMIYA | Jul 26 2013, 02:11 AM Post #117 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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I'm not sure what the first one is saying it seems the second one is saying Goku is already too strong. But again, why not test it out. This isn't like Goku needs to find someone strong because the world is in danger, he isn't even planning on coming to Earth or fighting Majin Boo. Why not just test it out and see what its like? You don't learn to drive a car by watching it after all. As for the last one, that just leads to more problems. They'd should've read/sensed, etc not only their SSj forms but also their SSj2 and Goku's SSj3 and noticed the huge amount of powers inside that would make them all **** their pants. |
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| + Pyrus | Jul 26 2013, 02:13 AM Post #118 |
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Exactly why it isn't good evidence to use. |
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| + Kyouks | Jul 26 2013, 02:24 AM Post #119 |
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The first one was mostly meant to refute this point of yours:
The exact reason why Goku didn't try it is beyond me, but it's a stretch to say it's impossible because a) characters have suppressed down to 0 before, and b) he didn't say he didn't try because he couldn't/it was impossible. Perhaps saying that he didn't try it because the dead guys were too weak is strange but it's the only plausible choice when characters have suppressed to 0 in the past. Btw since I'm kinda late and I'm not entirely sure what you're arguing since you also said "so if you think Goku can suppress down to 0, as I do myself..." I'm just trying to shed light on this little topic that's been brought up. I've got little to say explaining it given that it's not something I go by, but can you see why everything Dabura and Babidi say is..shaky? |
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| Vertical | Jul 26 2013, 02:30 AM Post #120 |
 
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For all the "Dabura can/can't sense" discussion; perhaps there are varying shades of Ki. There already seems to be differing flavors of Ki [how the Z-Warriors can tell who a power is]... so imagine: Kaioshin/Otherworld inhabitants = Very light/white Ki Makaioshin/demons = Very dark/black Ki Ki users shown up until Buu Arc = Various shades of grey Ki Then you end up with these possibilities: - None of the Z-Warriors can clearly sense Kaioshin because they have little to no experience with white Ki. - Piccolo can sense "something" familiar to him from Kaioshin as Kami had experience with Otherworld inhabitants... and draws his conclusions from there. - Buu's ball will not accept white or black Ki. - Dabura/Babidi cannot measure Ki but can sense shades [which is why the Kili reader exists]. - Dabura senses that the Ki from the Saiyans is within the ideal shade range. Perhaps Piccolo's Ki was tainted a slightly whiter shade due to Kamiccolo being White + Grey? As for Krillin... maybe all that ridiculous bravery/camaraderie has shifted his shade whiter. - Buu's Ki is a lie because Buu is made up of various overlapping types. The largest portion of his strength being from South Kaioshin, which is white. Obviously such a thing was never hinted at in the series [at least as far as I can tell] but it may provide a decent/simple explanation for a few instances. One could also attempt to explain Kaioshin's "on again, off again" ability to sense Ki using a similar theory. Perhaps the flavors I mentioned earlier and the shades are actually the same thing. I haven't really sat down and played with this theory much... so it probably has a few holes in it... but the general idea is there as a possibility for you guys to play with. |
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