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- SSJ Gotenks (Post-ROSAT) Vs SSJ Gogeta
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| SSJ Gotenks (Post-ROSAT) Vs SSJ Gogeta | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 25 2013, 02:26 PM (6,755 Views) | |
| Muhahahaha | Jul 25 2013, 08:47 PM Post #76 |
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How is it wrong? There is nothing going against it other than your unproven theory that Gogeta cant be above gotenks if the ssj multiplier is x50. |
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| EMIYA | Jul 25 2013, 08:53 PM Post #77 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
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Of course it's wrong. Goku saying fusion will beat Boo ends up being incorrect when using a 50x SSj multiplier. Nothing at all supports Gogeta having a 40-something x increase over Pre-Gotenks. The difference between the two really shouldn't be any more different than that between Goku and Goten, but for sake of argument we'll say Gogeta gets a bigger amp to the fusion that Gotenks for whatever reason. This is still going to be far lower than even 20x, even 10x but I'll be willing to budge on a few numbers here and there. Base Post-Gotenks ended up being over 30-40x stronger than SSJ Gotenks (Pre) and I'm fairly sure nobody here believes Gogeta had a 30-40x advantage over Pre-Gotenks. With using such a large SSj multiplier, its no doubt Gotenks ends up absolutely curbstomping even SSj3 Gogeta. When you use that 50x multiplier, you've got to go through some crazy things and somehow indicate that there was already a massive gap between Gotenks and Gogeta, whether because of Gogeta having a massive multiplier for his fusion or that the intial fusees Goku and Vegeta were just massively ahead of both Goten and Trunks. Edited by EMIYA, Jul 25 2013, 08:53 PM.
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| Muhahahaha | Jul 25 2013, 08:58 PM Post #78 |
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if gogeta simply gets a bigger fusion multiplier why cant it be over x100 bigger, with gogeta resulting like x200 gotenks pre? If he gets a bigger fusion multiplier then.... If that's what it takes to put gogeta above gotenks(post rosat), than so be it. Plot determines power, and says gogeta > post rosat gotenks. gotenks pre 1 ssj 50 post rosat base 100 gogeta 200 Is fine if you wanna assume he gets a bigger multiplier. Just prove why cant gogeta "bigger increase" be say x200 bigger. Edited by Muhahahaha, Jul 25 2013, 09:06 PM.
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| EMIYA | Jul 25 2013, 09:06 PM Post #79 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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But why should he? It's well thought that there isn't a big difference between Goku and Goten and thus such a gap and/or increase between Gogeta and Gotenks should only be as large or just slightly larger in Gogeta's case. There's no reason to think say Gotenks has a 10x increae (For aguments sake) but then Gogeta gets a massive 100x increae, especially when Gotenks has actually been practicing the fusion multiple times while Gogeta has done it one non-canonically. Also plot determining powers is a bit of a stretch, otherwise everyone would say Base Saiyans>Piccolo. |
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| Muhahahaha | Jul 25 2013, 09:13 PM Post #80 |
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I dont think the plot implies base saiyans > piccolo, but whatever. Why do you prefer listening to a logic saying "gogeta cant be that far above gotenks pre cause the adults arent far from the kids"(I agree with the last part btw) rather than "gogeta is implied to be above gotenks post rosat, so he's got to be far above gotenks pre, maybe because of mastered fusion/far different multiplier or whatever" Edited by Muhahahaha, Jul 25 2013, 09:15 PM.
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| EMIYA | Jul 25 2013, 09:16 PM Post #81 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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Because if you're going to use a 50x SSj multiplier, which was the original common multiplier to start out with, then you have no choice but to have Gotenks higher, since nothing implies that Goku/Vegeta are massively ahead of Goten and Trunks and/or that the fusion amp for Gogeta is massively ahead of Gotenks that despite the fact that Base Gotenks ended up being more powerful than his SSJ Pre-Gotenks self, Gogeta still somehow managed to become stronger. You have to somehow prove that there is a massive gap between the two in some way and there's just nothing that implies that. As for the first comment. Dabura notes that there are 3 large powers, Goku, Vegeta and Gohan, Piccolo is cast aside with the rest of the trash. I believe such a statement is even given twice. A direct statement right there is given in the manga and yet I know many people still have Piccolo>Base Saiyans. Edited by EMIYA, Jul 25 2013, 09:19 PM.
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| Muhahahaha | Jul 25 2013, 09:27 PM Post #82 |
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Perhaps your right about piccolo but it doesnt mean its impossible. You need to be able to work out your numbers. Gogeta getting a boost above gotenks isnt implied either so how do you explain that? I dont think this itself make more sense than gogeta being x200 gotenks pre. and btw you'd also have to ignore the fact goku thought ssj3 gokhan dance > bootenks and gokhan dance = gogeta dance since u.gohan lowers his power to goku's and vegeta probaly kept his majin power. Edited by Muhahahaha, Jul 25 2013, 09:31 PM.
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| Zenet | Jul 25 2013, 09:33 PM Post #83 |
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Gokuhan had the Mystic power up. + Nothing implies that the fusion dance doesn't have a fixed multiplier. where else the SSJ form doesn't have one. So far what is implied in the manga Base Gohan > Piccolo >>>>>>> 18 ~ Base Kids SSJ Gohan >~ SSJ Kids As you can see there is a difference in ratio between Base and MSSJ for the Adults and the Kids meaning there is no fixed SSJ multiplier. Example Base Kids: 10 SSJ: 100 Base Gohan: 52.5 SSJ: 105 So in my opinion Base Gogeta isn't stronger than SSJ Gotenks (pre) because of a higher fusion dance amp. Edited by Zenet, Jul 25 2013, 11:01 PM.
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| Muhahahaha | Jul 25 2013, 09:35 PM Post #84 |
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Gohan has to lower his power to goku's to fuse so the mystic power up doesnt change anything + I dont have a problem with fusion being a fixed multiplier. |
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| Zenet | Jul 25 2013, 09:39 PM Post #85 |
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Couldn't Gokuhan after fusing power up to the Mystic form just like turning SSJ3? |
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| Muhahahaha | Jul 25 2013, 09:53 PM Post #86 |
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..why? there's no "potential" for fusions, that's never implied and is baselss. |
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| Zenet | Jul 25 2013, 09:58 PM Post #87 |
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So is the SSJ forms, Mystic power up is no different. Gohan accesses it like a transformation in BOG like it was a separate form from base. Pretty much the same as the SSJ forms. Edited by Zenet, Jul 25 2013, 09:58 PM.
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| Muhahahaha | Jul 25 2013, 09:59 PM Post #88 |
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I doubt that since U. Goahn is basically gohan with all of his potential and beyond put into his base form. So there's such thing as "ultimate" transformation. |
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| + Pyrus | Jul 25 2013, 11:55 PM Post #89 |
 
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It's thrown aside as a trash comment because everybody was suppressed, so Dabura had to have been sensing something deeper. |
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| EMIYA | Jul 26 2013, 12:34 AM Post #90 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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So Dabura>Fat Boo right? Because by the logic your giving me, you're saying Dabura was sensing hidden power within Goku, Vegeta and Gohan, and yet thought he could take on Fat Boo in a fight. This is the same thing with Gotenks and Gogeta. Goku's statement about fusing with Gohan to beat Gotenks Boo ends up in low tide and has no backing unless you really try to force the numbers. In fact if we were to say the fusion multiplier depends on the users, Gotenks himself should actually get a higher increase considering the kids seemed to have more potential inside them than Goku and Vegeta. Likewise, who's to say they can even suppress themselves down that low? Goku notes that nobody in other world was strong enough for him to fuse with, yet despite that that shouldn't have stopped Goku from suppressing himself down to that level. Again you've got a statement that doesn't match up with the context were given. Of course I used the Dabura statement as a means to show that the statements given in the manga don't always match up to the context of the story. Dabura states that Goku, Vegeta and Gohan all have great and excludes Piccolo. This line is not contradicted via quotes or something else nor is it treated like he's sensing deeper energy. It's given as a direct statement and is intended to be taken seriously. Yet looking at the context later on, though the statement is intended to be true, its context surrounding it makes it false. So we've got the same thing here. Goku says that Fusion with Gohan would beat Gotenks Boo, probably a bit less considering Boo's confidence. If you use a 10x SSj multiplier and make sure the gap between Pre-Gotenks and Gogeta was rather large at first too, you might be able to make it. The moment you use 50x, it's just not happening. |
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