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SSJ Gotenks (Post-ROSAT) Vs SSJ Gogeta
Topic Started: Jul 25 2013, 02:26 PM (6,749 Views)
SSJ Jul 26 2013, 06:35 AM Post #166
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Hurry My Curry
Jul 26 2013, 06:34 AM
So then what stops Gogeta from being stronger than Gohan-Boo or Gotenks-Boo. After all, SSjin 3 Gotenks is only going to be 2.5x weaker than Gohan-Boo, and if small gains individually = large gains fusion, then Gogeta should be A LOT stronger than Gotenks right?
What you said proves why there are no multipliers for fusion. There is no way to make it work.
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+ Pyrus Jul 26 2013, 06:39 AM Post #167
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 Chapter: 490 (DBZ 296), P5.3
Piccolo: “Oh! So he can become a Super Saiyan even after Fusion?!”

The ability to become a Super Saiyan after already being fused was significant enough for Piccolo to mention. How come?
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Hurry My Curry Jul 26 2013, 06:40 AM Post #168
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Master Troll

 You couldn't transform after you did fusion before hand. You had to transform as a SSjin, you couldn't go from base to SSjin. Wasn't that the point of the segment?
Miles for mod
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+ Pyrus Jul 26 2013, 06:41 AM Post #169
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Hurry My Curry
Jul 26 2013, 06:40 AM
You couldn't transform after you did fusion before hand. You had to transform as a SSjin, you couldn't go from base to SSjin. Wasn't that the point of the segment?
You're getting warmer.
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SSJ Jul 26 2013, 06:42 AM Post #170
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Curry
 
So then what stops Gogeta from being stronger than Gohan-Boo or Gotenks-Boo. After all, SSjin 3 Gotenks is only going to be 2.5x weaker than Gohan-Boo, and if small gains individually = large gains fusion, then Gogeta should be A LOT stronger than Gotenks right?
Also it will become linear after Gotenks is in the rosat. Small gains do equal large gains for the fused body, but Gotenks finally caught up to Gogeta in the rosat. Do you know what I mean?
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Hurry My Curry Jul 26 2013, 06:45 AM Post #171
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SuperSaiyan2
Jul 26 2013, 06:42 AM
Curry
 
So then what stops Gogeta from being stronger than Gohan-Boo or Gotenks-Boo. After all, SSjin 3 Gotenks is only going to be 2.5x weaker than Gohan-Boo, and if small gains individually = large gains fusion, then Gogeta should be A LOT stronger than Gotenks right?
Also it will become linear after Gotenks is in the rosat. Small gains do equal large gains for the fused body, but Gotenks finally caught up to Gogeta in the rosat. Do you know what I mean?
Err yeah, but if Goten and Trunks didn't improve that much, there's still going to be a gap in power between them and Goku/Vegeta. That said, any sort of difference in power between the two would result in a giant power difference right?
Miles for mod
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EMIYA Jul 26 2013, 06:45 AM Post #172
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"I am the bone of my sword."
Hurry My Curry
Jul 26 2013, 06:30 AM
SuperSaiyan2
Jul 26 2013, 06:18 AM
If I recall correctly, Piccolo wasn't shown to be owned as badly as this. He held his own like Vegeta and Trunks did. This should automatically place him near 50% Goku.

I never understood how one panel of Piccolo standing up is enough to say that he held his own, when it is stated that only Vegeta and Trunks held there own against the Cell Jrs. What does that panel tell us? Piccolo is weaker than the saiyans and stronger than the humans.
Exactly. I was looking through again and we don't even see Piccolo fighting the Juniors except I think one panel where the Juniors all attack the fighters on the cliff initially. What we do see is Piccolo is very beat up with blood running from his mouth.

Quote:
 
Here it is Bro.


It's also kind of poor to try to compare Piccolo's level to the humans, because obviously Piccolo's going to do better than them. The best way would be to view it on how Piccolo is comparing to Goku, the problem there is, Goku's so weak now we don't know what his level might be at right now. In fact he's probably doing worse than the humans. When Herms gives us the line, he notes that Cell's statement is similar to a list and that more people might be holding their own against the Juniors.

All we know for certain is that Trunks and Vegeta are the ones doing so, Piccolo may or may not be within that list. Again this is probably another mistake people make where its like Cell is only referring to Vegeta and Trunks (and he might) but they miss out on the possibility that he's referring to more people. This is not certain that Piccolo is on such a level, but its a probability of some sort.

Quote:
 
Base Saiyans? Or Super Saiyans? Or what really?

That's why we dig into Dabura's claim so much, because it is a debatable subject. There isn't anything to debate regarding fusion dance Gokhan because it's an uncontradicted statement by a very reliable character backed up by another reliable character - it couldn't be much simpler in this case.


Base Saiyans obviously.

There's a few things you'd have to do to prove Base Saiyans>Piccolo or Piccolo>Base Saiyans.

1.) How does Piccolo compare to the Cell Juniors, was he seen as a worthy fighter that held his own like Vegeta and Trunks, or was he cast aside with the rest of the trash?

2.) What level was Piccolo at when he came out of the ROSAT? Was he getting nearer to Initial Perfect Cell, or was he still closer to Imperfect Cell?

3.) Where exactly did the base Saiyans stand initially?

4.) What was the multipliers given?

5.) What kind of increases did the characters make.

You can practically make as big of an argument for Base Saiyans>Piccolo as you can with Piccolo>Base Saiyans and you wouldn't even have to look at what Dabura said.
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SSJ Jul 26 2013, 06:47 AM Post #173
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Hurry My Curry
Jul 26 2013, 06:45 AM
SuperSaiyan2
Jul 26 2013, 06:42 AM
Curry
 
So then what stops Gogeta from being stronger than Gohan-Boo or Gotenks-Boo. After all, SSjin 3 Gotenks is only going to be 2.5x weaker than Gohan-Boo, and if small gains individually = large gains fusion, then Gogeta should be A LOT stronger than Gotenks right?
Also it will become linear after Gotenks is in the rosat. Small gains do equal large gains for the fused body, but Gotenks finally caught up to Gogeta in the rosat. Do you know what I mean?
Err yeah, but if Goten and Trunks didn't improve that much, there's still going to be a gap in power between them and Goku/Vegeta. That said, any sort of difference in power between the two would result in a giant power difference right?
Well yeah. But since they were so far away from Gogeta Pre rosat, they probably got to that 2x weaker area post rosat. Then if Gotenks and Gogeta improve be same amount each, the gaps should stay the same. It should all work out with SSJ 3 Gogeta being stronger than Bootenks, and SSJ 3 Gotenks being slightly stronger than Super Boo.
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Hurry My Curry Jul 26 2013, 06:51 AM Post #174
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Master Troll

 Well let me ask you something. When you say that small individual gains -> big gains fused, that would mean the amount of power Goten gained (only Goten, because Trunks is still stronger) led them from being weaker to Super Boo as SSjin's to being on par or stronger in base. That's a 10 or 50x difference in power AT LEAST.

That said, you can see why I'm skeptical to believe that smaller gains individually = big gains fused. That would lead to there being an absurd power difference between Gogeta and Gotenks. I'm of the mindset that we cannot make all the statements work, they're not supposed to as fusion doesn't really make sense anyway.
Miles for mod
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+ Pyrus Jul 26 2013, 06:53 AM Post #175
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 We all know Fusion/Potara were plot devices and nothing more.
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+ miguelnuva Jul 26 2013, 06:54 AM Post #176
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 I have fusion dance not linear at all to who is fusing but the stronger you are the more you have to work with.
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Gogeta power placement
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SSJ Jul 26 2013, 06:54 AM Post #177
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Hurry My Curry
Jul 26 2013, 06:51 AM
Well let me ask you something. When you say that small individual gains -> big gains fused, that would mean the amount of power Goten gained (only Goten, because Trunks is still stronger) led them from being weaker to Super Boo as SSjin's to being on par or stronger in base. That's a 10 or 50x difference in power AT LEAST.

That said, you can see why I'm skeptical to believe that smaller gains individually = big gains fused. That would lead to there being an absurd power difference between Gogeta and Gotenks. I'm of the mindset that we cannot make all the statements work, they're not supposed to as fusion doesn't really make sense anyway.
Well number wise, fusion is basically impossible to figure out.

And yeah they can get 50x stronger. Super Boo was about 400x stronger than SSJ Gotenks Pre, so they had a lot of catching up to do. And obviously they made small gains because they weren't noted to have improved individually. All you need to do is start Gogeta at 2x SSJ Gotenks post, and it works fine.
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+ miguelnuva Jul 26 2013, 06:58 AM Post #178
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 You could also assume that Piccolo was so excited that Gotenks powered up so much he forgot they couldn't go SSJ after fusing.

Gotenks(pre): 2

MSSJ Gotenks(pre): 100

Base Gotenks(post): 40

MSSJ Gotenks(post): 2,000

Piccolo to me always seemed excited that Gotenks powered up so much and then when he calms down he remembers that can't go SSJ after fusing.
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Gogeta power placement
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Hurry My Curry Jul 26 2013, 07:07 AM Post #179
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Master Troll

 Piccolo knows that Gotenks can't go SSjin, that's why he's so surprised when he actually does.
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+ Pyrus Jul 26 2013, 07:07 AM Post #180
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 Here are my power levels:

Goten
::Base - 550,000,000
::Super Saiyan - 5,500,000,000
Trunks
::Base - 560,000,000
::Super Saiyan - 5,600,000,000
Gohan
::Base - 650,000,000
::Super Saiyan - 6,500,000,000
::Super Saiyan 2 - 39,000,000,000
Vegeta
::Base - 825,000,000
::Super Saiyan - 8,250,000,000
::Super Saiyan 2 - 49,500,000,000
Goku
::Base - 1,080,000,000
::Super Saiyan - 10,800,000,000
::Super Saiyan 2 - 64,800,000,000
::Super Saiyan 3 - 518,400,000,000
Gotenks (pre)
::Base - 80,000,000,000
::Super Saiyan - 800,000,000,000
Gotenks (post)
::Base - 1,600,000,000,000
::Super Saiyan - 16,000,000,000,000
::Super Saiyan 2 - 96,000,000,000,000
::Super Saiyan 3 - 768,000,000,000,000
Gogeta
::Base - 3,520,000,000,000
::Super Saiyan - 35,200,000,000,000
::Super Saiyan 2 - 211,200,000,000,000
::Super Saiyan 3 - 1,689,600,000,000,000
HMC
 
Piccolo knows that Gotenks can't go SSjin, that's why he's so surprised when he actually does.

But there could also be another reason it's significant, from a plot standpoint.
Edited by Pyrus, Jul 26 2013, 07:08 AM.
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