SSJ Gotenks (Post-ROSAT) Vs SSJ Gogeta

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SSJ Gotenks (Post-ROSAT) Vs SSJ Gogeta
Tweet Topic Started: Jul 25 2013, 02:26 PM (6,750 Views)
EMIYA	Jul 26 2013, 06:01 AM Post #151
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	But how would you refute it? Note that Dabura's line that Base Saiyans>Piccolo "plot wise" is actually never contradicted. We never get a point in the story where its outright certain through statements that Piccolo is stronger. What is debatably contradicted is Dabura's ability to sense ki. We can make some conjecture and use our own numbers and usually it make sense. But when this matters little to none within the plot that AT wrote, why use it? We've got to use the plot given to us as I've been hearing and screw whatever we may think. Therefore Dabura sense ability is contradicted does not mean Base Saiyans>Piccolo is contradicted. Now do tell me plot wise how Piccolo>Base Saiyans cause the issues on you now. You brought up this excuse of plot says, so it must be right. Plot says "Base Saiyans>Piccolo" now prove it wrong without bringing up any conjecture on your part.



SSJ	Jul 26 2013, 06:02 AM Post #152
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	The Base Saiyans never got to 50% CG SSJ Goku level, so they never surpass Piccolo...



+ Pyrus	Jul 26 2013, 06:04 AM Post #153
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	But that's besides the point. You might be too personally invested in this, Brofist. You seem more agitated that normal.
	Spoiler: click to toggle


Doctor Know	Jul 26 2013, 06:06 AM Post #154
Posts: 478 Group: Member Member #5,351 Joined: October 23, 2010	Well when the Fusion broke inside Buutenks, Buu became Buuccilo. Meaning Piccolo > Trunks (who is stronger than Goten). Extrapolating that to what people on this forum commonly believe that post ROSAT boys ~<Goku and Vegeta. We could still infer that Piccolo is probably > Base Goku and Vegeta. We know Piccolo has to be stronger than Base Gohan.



EMIYA	Jul 26 2013, 06:12 AM Post #155
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	SuperSaiyan2 Jul 26 2013, 06:02 AM The Base Saiyans never got to 50% CG SSJ Goku level, so they never surpass Piccolo... I would agree, but "plot" says Base Saiyan's are beast and surpassed Piccolo. If we were going to use our usual multipliers and numbers and stuff as we usually do, we'd probably end up with Piccolo being stronger. But for here, we're not using that, because that doesn't matter apparently. What matters is what the plot tells us, and the plot again tells us that "Base Saiyans>Piccolo. Now I think another problem is that people think Piccolo must be above Semi-Cell when this is never the case either. The only thing we know is that Piccolo made large gains in the ROSAT. This could put him anywhere from around Imperfect Cell to above Semi-Cell while still fitting within the line of "Making large gains" that Goku mentioned. Quote: But that's besides the point. You might be too personally invested in this, Brofist. You seem more agitated that normal. I kind of am. You seem so certain that Gogeta>Gotenks because of plot, but when the same thing is said with Base Saiyans>Piccolo, you don't seem to want to accept it. Again, nothing contradicts Base Saiyans>Piccolo plotwise, it's only when we put in our numbers and interpretations in, that Piccolo>Base Saiyans. But if we do the same thing with the former, then Gotenks>Gogeta. You can prove perhaps that Dabura being able to sense is a contradiction, but that's not the same as saying Base Saiyans>Piccolo is a contradiction. What we might have is Base Saiyans~Semi-Cell>Piccolo>Imperfect Cell and it works perfectly. It works with the statements and "plot" given to us.



+ Pyrus	Jul 26 2013, 06:17 AM Post #156
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Quote: Now I think another problem is that people think Piccolo must be above Semi-Cell when this is never the case either. The only thing we know is that Piccolo made large gains in the ROSAT. This could put him anywhere from around Imperfect Cell to above Semi-Cell while still fitting within the line of "Making large gains" that Goku mentioned. I always agreed with this. Quote: I kind of am. You seem so certain that Gogeta>Gotenks because of plot, but when the same thing is said with Base Saiyans>Piccolo, you don't seem to want to accept it. Again, nothing contradicts Base Saiyans>Piccolo plotwise, it's only when we put in our numbers and interpretations in, that Piccolo>Base Saiyans. But if we do the same thing with the former, then Gotenks>Gogeta. You can prove perhaps that Dabura being able to sense is a contradiction, but that's not the same as saying Base Saiyans>Piccolo is a contradiction. What we might have is Base Saiyans~Semi-Cell>Piccolo>Imperfect Cell and it works perfectly. It works with the statements and "plot" given to us. How exactly does the plot tell us the Base Saiyans are superior to Piccolo again? Dabura's statement?
	Spoiler: click to toggle


SSJ	Jul 26 2013, 06:18 AM Post #157
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	If I recall correctly, Piccolo wasn't shown to be owned as badly as this. He held his own like Vegeta and Trunks did. This should automatically place him near 50% Goku. Next when Goku and Vegeta battle, Piccolo says they "may" be stronger than Gohan was, meaning they were not much stronger. If Piccolo maintained his current power, he physically cannot be weaker than the Saiyans. Edited by SSJ, Jul 26 2013, 06:26 AM.



EMIYA	Jul 26 2013, 06:24 AM Post #158
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	@SSj2, I'm not sure if your link is working. I'm not really getting anything. It's throwing me to a website but, not really showing me much. I assume you were showing me an image or something from the manga. I'm guessing something with the Cell Jrs or something, but until I know for certain I can't say anything. @KP: Dabura states that there are 3 people with marvelous energy, Goku, Vegeta and Gohan. Piccolo is not included within this statement and thus we can come to the conclusion that Base Saiyans>Piccolo. What is contradicted is Dabura's so called ability to sense ki, what is not contradicted is the point of Base Saiyans>Piccolo. Let me ask this, where does plot say for certain that Piccolo>Base Saiyans?



SSJ	Jul 26 2013, 06:26 AM Post #159
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	Here it is Bro.



Hurry My Curry	Jul 26 2013, 06:28 AM Post #160
Master Troll Posts: 3,800 Group: Members Member #7,981 Joined: July 20, 2012 Favourite Anime Dragon Ball What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	I think that while the boys did get stronger, they're not quite at Goku and Vegeta's level. That said, Gotenks is going to fall short of Gogeta at equal SSjin levels. Gogeta wins, IMO.
	Miles for mod


+ Pyrus	Jul 26 2013, 06:29 AM Post #161
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Brofist Jul 26 2013, 06:24 AM @KP: Dabura states that there are 3 people with marvelous energy, Goku, Vegeta and Gohan. Piccolo is not included within this statement and thus we can come to the conclusion that Base Saiyans>Piccolo. What is contradicted is Dabura's so called ability to sense ki, what is not contradicted is the point of Base Saiyans>Piccolo. Let me ask this, where does plot say for certain that Piccolo>Base Saiyans? Base Saiyans? Or Super Saiyans? Or what really? That's why we dig into Dabura's claim so much, because it is a debatable subject. There isn't anything to debate regarding fusion dance Gokhan because it's an uncontradicted statement by a very reliable character backed up by another reliable character - it couldn't be much simpler in this case.
	Spoiler: click to toggle


Hurry My Curry	Jul 26 2013, 06:30 AM Post #162
Master Troll Posts: 3,800 Group: Members Member #7,981 Joined: July 20, 2012 Favourite Anime Dragon Ball What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	SuperSaiyan2 Jul 26 2013, 06:18 AM If I recall correctly, Piccolo wasn't shown to be owned as badly as this. He held his own like Vegeta and Trunks did. This should automatically place him near 50% Goku. I never understood how one panel of Piccolo standing up is enough to say that he held his own, when it is stated that only Vegeta and Trunks held there own against the Cell Jrs. What does that panel tell us? Piccolo is weaker than the saiyans and stronger than the humans. Edited by Hurry My Curry, Jul 26 2013, 06:30 AM.
	Miles for mod


+ Pyrus	Jul 26 2013, 06:32 AM Post #163
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	I don't even remember if this is the right thread, but here's Jack's post I was referring to about the Potara. http://www.pojo.biz/board/showpost.php?p=23968915&postcount=83
	Spoiler: click to toggle


SSJ	Jul 26 2013, 06:32 AM Post #164
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	On topic: Keep in mind that fusion isn't linear either. The boys made small gains in their own bodies, but it translated to huge gains for Gotenks. Going by this, if the boys gained 2x each, Gotenks would increase by much more than 2x. This is a simple explanation to keep Gogeta > Gotenks no matter what. Just because the adults are 2x stronger than the kids doesn't mean that the fusion will be 2x stronger than Gotenks. Small gains in the base fighters = large gains in the fusion. @Curry: Piccolo wasn't shown getting his a* kicked either? Was he now? Edited by SSJ**, Jul 26 2013, 06:34 AM.



Hurry My Curry	Jul 26 2013, 06:34 AM Post #165
Master Troll Posts: 3,800 Group: Members Member #7,981 Joined: July 20, 2012 Favourite Anime Dragon Ball What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	So then what stops Gogeta from being stronger than Gohan-Boo or Gotenks-Boo. After all, SSjin 3 Gotenks is only going to be 2.5x weaker than Gohan-Boo, and if small gains individually = large gains fusion, then Gogeta should be A LOT stronger than Gotenks right? Edit: But it's just one panel, there is a panel where Tien is standing up against the Cell Jrs. Cell says that only Vegeta and Trunks can hold there own -> Cell Jr's aren't messing around with Vegeta or Trunks shown and stated. Edited by Hurry My Curry, Jul 26 2013, 06:35 AM.
	Miles for mod


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