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Can they destroy the sun?
Topic Started: Jul 22 2013, 05:15 PM (2,109 Views)
bardock1990
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If we could just focus on the sun and not the galaxy since that's what I asked.
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Zenet
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Brofist
Jul 23 2013, 04:53 AM
We're directly shown that Freeza can't destroy a planet without hitting the core. Perhaps if an opponent hits the core of the sun, it'll cause a chain reaction that will eventually blow up the sun. But to let's say create a blast that will engulf the actual sun, you'll have to be pretty high up on the totem poll. This is why I will never accept Cell blowing up the solar system, unless you're going to infer that the solar system in DBZ works on diferent properties and scales than the real solar system.

And until that is mentioned, you have no choice but to use the real solar system.

Same thing here. The biggest explosions in DBZ are planet size and this isn't even from the blast itself, this is just from the planet exploding. The sun, and this might be new so I apologize for anyone who doesn't know...is big.

Massive in fact....the massive planetary explosions from planets which far outstrip any blast radius ever seen in DBZ...is like a small fart from a baby otter still in its mother's pouch. Maybe in the DBZverse its possible, but you throw that stuff in the real world, Vegetto might give the sun an itch.
DBZ isn't restricted by the speed of light so it could be possible in that sense.
Edited by Zenet, Jul 23 2013, 12:53 PM.
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Coolest
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Could they destroy the sun? Yes, but why? They would all die. Destroying our sun wouldn't cause a massive explosion that would decimate our solar system like people think; it's far too far away for that to happen. But, what WOULD happen, is our entire solar system would turn to ice. Every planet would become like Pluto;a solid hunk of frozen ice and rock. Without our sun (the only source at all of energy in our solar system, and therefore heat via radiation) our solar system would just die. But not the "kaboom" theatrics people make it out to be.
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Zenet
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Coolest
Jul 23 2013, 03:02 PM
Could they destroy the sun? Yes, but why? They would all die. Destroying our sun wouldn't cause a massive explosion that would decimate our solar system like people think; it's far too far away for that to happen. But, what WOULD happen, is our entire solar system would turn to ice. Every planet would become like Pluto;a solid hunk of frozen ice and rock. Without our sun (the only source at all of energy in our solar system, and therefore heat via radiation) our solar system would just die. But not the "kaboom" theatrics people make it out to be.
The sun is pretty much already a gigantic explosion anyway so feeding it with power would just make it bigger and more powerful. But If The sun did completely blow up it would wipe out the closest planets, the surviving planets would fly apart becoming rouge planets since the sun keeps the planets in orbit.
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Coolest
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Yeah, a star is essentially billions of tons of nuclear warheads going off every square inch every second. It's quite mind blowing when you understand what's happening in our sun. Even more amazing when you realize the heat we feel isn't direct at all; it's radiation.
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SurRealistic
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Jonny Rivers

bardock1990
Jul 23 2013, 12:20 PM
If we could just focus on the sun and not the galaxy since that's what I asked.
If Cell can destroy a Solar System then I'm pretty sure he could blow up the sun......
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Tatumjay
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I don't know about the whole, "a ki blast (i.e. energy) would just add to the sun's power because the sun is just energy in itself." If we're going by real life logic, there's never been a precedent (of course) to show us that a ki blast would add energy to the sun. Just as likely: it could be dissolved by the sun's radiation and heat before it even comes into contact with the sun; it could be destroyed by the sun's energy, effectively taking "away" energy from the sun, etc., I mean we just don't know as there's no precedent or scientific law to base it off of.

But anyways, count me in the group that believes no Dragon Ball character (or group of Dragon Ball characters, however large) can blow up the sun. Yes, there are characters who supposedly can blow up solar systems (said in the manga), but of these instances, which ones are 100% literal? And even then, how do the people speaking of that character know he can do it (because, to my knowledge, no character has ever actually blown up a star [withstanding Bills as I haven't seen the movie] and the other characters are just assuming [it wouldn't be the first time a character's manga line was proven wrong]).

All in all, the sun's energy level is just over powering. I imagine that if we gave it a power level, it would have something like a trillion to the thousandth power.
Edited by Tatumjay, Jul 23 2013, 11:59 PM.
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Super Vegetto
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Tatumjay
Jul 23 2013, 11:18 PM
I don't know about the whole, "a ki blast (i.e. energy) would just add to the sun's power because the sun is just energy in itself." If we're going by real life logic, there's never been a precedent (of course) to show us that a ki blast would add energy to the sun. Just as likely: it could be dissolved by the sun's radiation and heat before it even comes into contact with the sun; it could be destroyed by the sun's energy, effectively taking "away" energy from the sun, etc., I mean we just don't know as there's no precedent or scientific law to base it off of.

But anyways, count me in the group that believes no Dragon Ball character (or group of Dragon Ball characters, however large) can blow up the sun. Yes, there are characters who supposedly can blow up solar systems (said in the manga), but of these instances, which ones are 100% literal? And even then, how do the people speaking of that character know he can do it (because, to my knowledge, no character has ever actually blown up a star [withstanding Bills as I haven't seen the movie] and the other characters are just assuming [it wouldn't be the first time a character's manga line was proven wrong]).

All in all, the sun's energy level is just over powering. I imagine that if we gave it a power level, it would have something like a trillion to the thousandth power.
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Cell's ki concentrated in one blast > Solar System.

So yea, the group that belives in DBZ characters > blowing up the sun is the right one.


Spoiler: click to toggle
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Boo's concentrated ki barely created an explosion that blew apart the planet and I'm assuming that was the blast itself and not just detonation of the planet. Nobody here can honestly think that Cell, Boo, or anyone else can fire a single blast and decimate the entire solar system in one shot. We are given feats showing that this never happens and the statements are contradicted by these feats.

We are perfectly shown that 50% Freeza could not destroy a planet of Namek's size directly without hitting the core.

in short, from 50% Freeza and downwards (and depending on the type of planet I'm sure) hitting the core is apparently a necessity in destroying a planet. Otherwise they're just making new holes in the earth. Heck we've seen it, we've seen attacks up to Chou Gohan being bombarded into the earth and outside the other end with no massive explosions blowing anything up.

I've been through this before, even if you made the sun go supernova, it wouldn't reach all the planets in the solar system. You cannot truly believe that Cell or anyone else is going to fire a KHH at anywhere in the solar system and in that single shot, create a blast radius that is going to cover from the sun to Pluto, keep the size and the ki radiating through and destroy every last thing.

As a note, let me express the difference between the Earth and the Sun.

Spoiler: click to toggle


Now then, at what point does anyone in the series create a blast that is going to engulf the sun? What person in the serie has fired off a KHH that could hit the sun and completely destroy it when in fact the largest explosions (Via planetary detonations) would've even cover a fraction of the sun? You would be outright lucky to hit the core of the sun and do any damage but I'll give the benefit of the doubt there.

But, if you think that ANYONE can just fire off a blast anywhere on the sun and that would be enough to destroy it completely, you are out of your mind. There's a limit to ki and its radius. Ki can be compact and contain massive amounts of power inside of it. But much air in a balloon, the more this ki spread out, the weaker, or less dense it becomes. While some fighters may have enough Ki that if it was spread out it might reach a vast length (though even then I question whether or not it would reach as big as the sun) it would not contain the same amount of power then if it was actually compact and dense.

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Zenet
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Brofist
Jul 24 2013, 06:54 PM
Boo's concentrated ki barely created an explosion that blew apart the planet and I'm assuming that was the blast itself and not just detonation of the planet. Nobody here can honestly think that Cell, Boo, or anyone else can fire a single blast and decimate the entire solar system in one shot. We are given feats showing that this never happens and the statements are contradicted by these feats.

We are perfectly shown that 50% Freeza could not destroy a planet of Namek's size directly without hitting the core.

in short, from 50% Freeza and downwards (and depending on the type of planet I'm sure) hitting the core is apparently a necessity in destroying a planet. Otherwise they're just making new holes in the earth. Heck we've seen it, we've seen attacks up to Chou Gohan being bombarded into the earth and outside the other end with no massive explosions blowing anything up.

I've been through this before, even if you made the sun go supernova, it wouldn't reach all the planets in the solar system. You cannot truly believe that Cell or anyone else is going to fire a KHH at anywhere in the solar system and in that single shot, create a blast radius that is going to cover from the sun to Pluto, keep the size and the ki radiating through and destroy every last thing.

As a note, let me express the difference between the Earth and the Sun.

Spoiler: click to toggle


Now then, at what point does anyone in the series create a blast that is going to engulf the sun? What person in the serie has fired off a KHH that could hit the sun and completely destroy it when in fact the largest explosions (Via planetary detonations) would've even cover a fraction of the sun? You would be outright lucky to hit the core of the sun and do any damage but I'll give the benefit of the doubt there.

But, if you think that ANYONE can just fire off a blast anywhere on the sun and that would be enough to destroy it completely, you are out of your mind. There's a limit to ki and its radius. Ki can be compact and contain massive amounts of power inside of it. But much air in a balloon, the more this ki spread out, the weaker, or less dense it becomes. While some fighters may have enough Ki that if it was spread out it might reach a vast length (though even then I question whether or not it would reach as big as the sun) it would not contain the same amount of power then if it was actually compact and dense.

Also I would like to add that the solar system goes far beyond Pluto as well. Though if DBZ isn't restricted by the speed of light shown a few times then the radius of attacks can become unrealistically large without being as powerful.
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Super Vegetto
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Brofist
Jul 24 2013, 06:54 PM
Boo's concentrated ki barely created an explosion that blew apart the planet and I'm assuming that was the blast itself and not just detonation of the planet. Nobody here can honestly think that Cell, Boo, or anyone else can fire a single blast and decimate the entire solar system in one shot. We are given feats showing that this never happens and the statements are contradicted by these feats.

We are perfectly shown that 50% Freeza could not destroy a planet of Namek's size directly without hitting the core.

in short, from 50% Freeza and downwards (and depending on the type of planet I'm sure) hitting the core is apparently a necessity in destroying a planet. Otherwise they're just making new holes in the earth. Heck we've seen it, we've seen attacks up to Chou Gohan being bombarded into the earth and outside the other end with no massive explosions blowing anything up.

I've been through this before, even if you made the sun go supernova, it wouldn't reach all the planets in the solar system. You cannot truly believe that Cell or anyone else is going to fire a KHH at anywhere in the solar system and in that single shot, create a blast radius that is going to cover from the sun to Pluto, keep the size and the ki radiating through and destroy every last thing.

As a note, let me express the difference between the Earth and the Sun.

Spoiler: click to toggle


Now then, at what point does anyone in the series create a blast that is going to engulf the sun? What person in the serie has fired off a KHH that could hit the sun and completely destroy it when in fact the largest explosions (Via planetary detonations) would've even cover a fraction of the sun? You would be outright lucky to hit the core of the sun and do any damage but I'll give the benefit of the doubt there.

But, if you think that ANYONE can just fire off a blast anywhere on the sun and that would be enough to destroy it completely, you are out of your mind. There's a limit to ki and its radius. Ki can be compact and contain massive amounts of power inside of it. But much air in a balloon, the more this ki spread out, the weaker, or less dense it becomes. While some fighters may have enough Ki that if it was spread out it might reach a vast length (though even then I question whether or not it would reach as big as the sun) it would not contain the same amount of power then if it was actually compact and dense.

You forgot the whole point. Cell (AT) stated it and nothing contradicts it...
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Cell states he can blow up the solar system (Which we of course assume means in one shot) Creating a blast radius that will fill out the entire solar system.

Come 7 years later and Kid Boo who >>>>>>Zenkai Perfect Cell, completely unhinged chucks a blast at the Earth.

The explosion is only larger the planet earth and really no bigger than any other planetary explosions we've seen.

conclusion...Boo can't blow up the solar system in one shot, Cell certainly can't.

AT can say whatever he wants, if it interfere and/or contradicts with the context either now, later on or in a general sense, it's not true.

People really need to get over this whole someone says something and thus it has to be true. You need to look at both the statement, the feats and the context surrounding them and them come to a conclusion. AT may have the line said with the intention of it being true, but the context and feats surrounding it does not fit.

Likewise AT also says that Base Saiyans>Piccolo via Dabura.

And yet judging from most people Piccolo>Semi-Cell>>>Base Saiyans.

So you do agree that Base Saiyans>Piccolo right? Cause that's the statement in the manga.
Edited by EMIYA, Jul 24 2013, 08:09 PM.
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Tatumjay
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Super Vegetto
Jul 24 2013, 05:14 PM
Tatumjay
Jul 23 2013, 11:18 PM
I don't know about the whole, "a ki blast (i.e. energy) would just add to the sun's power because the sun is just energy in itself." If we're going by real life logic, there's never been a precedent (of course) to show us that a ki blast would add energy to the sun. Just as likely: it could be dissolved by the sun's radiation and heat before it even comes into contact with the sun; it could be destroyed by the sun's energy, effectively taking "away" energy from the sun, etc., I mean we just don't know as there's no precedent or scientific law to base it off of.

But anyways, count me in the group that believes no Dragon Ball character (or group of Dragon Ball characters, however large) can blow up the sun. Yes, there are characters who supposedly can blow up solar systems (said in the manga), but of these instances, which ones are 100% literal? And even then, how do the people speaking of that character know he can do it (because, to my knowledge, no character has ever actually blown up a star [withstanding Bills as I haven't seen the movie] and the other characters are just assuming [it wouldn't be the first time a character's manga line was proven wrong]).

All in all, the sun's energy level is just over powering. I imagine that if we gave it a power level, it would have something like a trillion to the thousandth power.
Posted Image

Cell's ki concentrated in one blast > Solar System.

So yea, the group that belives in DBZ characters > blowing up the sun is the right one.


My point wasn't that there wasn't anything canon to back it up. My point is there is no way for Cell to measure his power against the power of the solar system. The only way he could judge the solar system's power is by guessing, ergo he very likely could be wrong. We see characters making false claims all the time like brofist just confirmed (e.g. I'm the fastest in the universe!; My power's the strongest in the universe!).

Until we see a character destroy a solar system (or a star, for that matter) and set a precedent to judge the solar system's power off of, common sense tells you that you can't take a known quantity (Cell's power level) and subtract it by an unknown quantity (solar system's power level). Heck, even then we don't have Cell's actual power level, so you're trying to take a unknown quantity and subtract it by another unknown quantity.
Edited by Tatumjay, Jul 24 2013, 09:54 PM.
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+ Pyrus
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A generic blast from Gotenks-Boo went straight through the Earth.

And:

Chapter: 320 (DBZ 126), P9.2
Context: after it turns out Planet Namek didn’t blow up
Freeza: “Chih…! Did I suppress my power too much…?!
Goku: “It’s because you were afraid of getting caught up in the planet’s explosion yourself…You screwed up. Though thanks to that, I survived…”
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

And Kid boo throws a blast at the Earth and it only blows up the planet.

Freeza could have suppressed his power as well, even if it was Initial Final Form Freeza. It still went to show that Freeza could not destroy a planet unless he specifically hit the core in some way.
Edited by EMIYA, Jul 24 2013, 11:16 PM.
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