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Kanzenshuu says Battle Powers post Freeza arc impossible to calclulate
Topic Started: Jul 19 2013, 09:46 PM (3,106 Views)
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"So once the Freeza arc was over with, battle powers effectively dropped out of the series. After the series ended, the seventh daizenshuu guidebook gave more official battle powers that weren’t stated in the series, but it only went up to the final battle between Goku and Freeza, and stated that past this point it was impossible to numerically measure the increases in Goku and co.’s battle powers. To this day there are no official battle powers for any of the characters past the Freeza arc, though this hasn’t stopped numerous fans from coming up with their own calculations."

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/what/
Last paragraph

Do you agree with this? With all of the post and threads on these boards giving actual numerical value to power levels in the Buu and Cell saga, it just makes me wonder; how do you know all of this if it's NEVER stated in the manga? Sheer speculation?
Edited by Coolest, Jul 19 2013, 09:47 PM.
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+ Pyrus
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Educated guessing, logical deduction, comprehension skills beyond a fourth grade level, common sense, and some speculation.
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4th graders can't deduct power levels in the billions and trillions :p
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I should have added "math skills" in there, but I think you get the point. It's not hard to make power levels. A "good" list can actually be just as bad as a "terrible" list. We don't truly know because of the power levels stopping after Freeza.

Toriyama could decide to come onto a site like this at any time, see one of our lists and laugh at how wrong we are.
Edited by Pyrus, Jul 19 2013, 10:02 PM.
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Alex D. Boss
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We just go by "A is stronger than B" , A got 50x SSJ multiplier , and B rivals him , so we calculate this.

But , C is shown against B to have the same gap as "example: Vegeta vs Zarbon" so we calculate this with C.

D is stated to be surpass C , but slightly... So we speculate somewhat and add his pwl somehow.

E becomes a SSJ2! But is equal to F. After F transforms he becomes stronger than G , stated by E. So we put them in order smh.

This goes till EOGT...
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But in the past, especially the gains that Piccolo makes, they don't make any logical sense. How can you just assume everything follows suit? Like Piccolo being as strong as base vegeta in Android saga, that isn't math, that's just PLOT brah..it makes no logical sense how a namekian could be as strong as a super saiyan at base..and for NO reason. Like how Yamcha and krillin are at SSJ goku frieza arc at EOZ. It's just absurd.
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That last sentence isn't really supported by anything in the manga, but that aside...

Plot plays the biggest part in making a power level list. Plot tells us who is stronger than who, and usually gives us a hint or two about how big the gap is. We use our own multipliers and such after that. It doesn't matter if we like something or not - if plot dictates it, plot gets it, or we might as well not make a list in the first place.
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The math part only comes in when we want to decide how much of a numerical difference there is between two people or when we work with multipliers for whatever there is to multiply (e.g., Goku was > Freeza, but based on the fight and previous gaps shown, was it a gap of 5%? 10%?). Aside from that, the plot dictates everything as you said.
Edited by Kyouks, Jul 19 2013, 10:21 PM.
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Zenet
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Power levels are not something to take seriously because of info given in guides such as SSJ multipliers, horrible numbers etc etc. Example Raditz being 100,000 times weaker than Freeza makes no sense when they both were shown to have almost the same feats. That is why Power levels were stopped it contradicts what is shown.
Edited by Zenet, Jul 19 2013, 10:30 PM.
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Cenet
Jul 19 2013, 10:29 PM
Power levels are not something to take seriously because of info given in guides such as SSJ multipliers, horrible numbers etc etc. Example Raditz being 100,000 times weaker than Freeza makes no sense when they both were shown to have almost the same feats. That is why Power levels were stopped it contradicts what is shown.
Best response so far. Showing reason and logic that it doesn't make sense.
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Alex D. Boss
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So you're saying that Raditz being 10000 times weaker doesn't make sense? Why not?
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IllogicalGlory
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Alex KloonBoss
Jul 19 2013, 11:13 PM
So you're saying that Raditz being 10000 times weaker doesn't make sense? Why not?
Cause there aren't any feats that say Freeza is stronger. We all know Raditz blew up a planet ten times bigger than Earth, shot a beam so fast that Vegeta couldn't see it, and shot an energy whip past the horizon and beyond, instantly. He also tanked a spirit bomb that took ten plus minutes to create, and tanked a KHH from kaioken x20 Goku.
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* Ketchup Revenge
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

Label this blasphemy, but I really don't think Toriyama cared about keeping consistent battle powers by the end of the series.

The reason I say this is because SSj by the time of the Boo Arc doesn't seem that much stronger than Base, and seems to appear only to placate to the pleasure of the reader. It seems to me by that point in time, Toriyama considered "The Next Level" to be twice as strong as the previous one. Just to put this into perspective, this would place SSj3 Goku (at max) in the range of only being 8x Base Goku.
The context of situations like Goku suggesting that him and Gohan fuse suddenly makes sense if you think about it from this perspective instead of the "Mystic Gohan is 4000x Base Goku" context.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jul 20 2013, 05:46 AM.
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The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.
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I 100% agree with you. Toriyama didn't care about battle powers in the 2nd half of dbz at all. That's blatantly obvious. These power level debates are a figment of fandom and nothing more.
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Zenet
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IllogicalGlory
Jul 19 2013, 11:31 PM
Alex KloonBoss
Jul 19 2013, 11:13 PM
So you're saying that Raditz being 10000 times weaker doesn't make sense? Why not?
Cause there aren't any feats that say Freeza is stronger. We all know Raditz blew up a planet ten times bigger than Earth, shot a beam so fast that Vegeta couldn't see it, and shot an energy whip past the horizon and beyond, instantly. He also tanked a spirit bomb that took ten plus minutes to create, and tanked a KHH from kaioken x20 Goku.
Those feats doesn't make Freeza 100,000 times stronger than Raditz maybe 1000 or even 100 times at most. Vegeta (saiyan saga) or Nappa can blow up a planet the same feat Freeza or Majin Boo can do. From a power-level standpoint they are overpowered or underpowered for the feats shown. Power-levels simply don't make sense that is why they were stopped Toriyama probably guessed it was better to see how strong they are using feats.

Example
BODB Goku had a power-level of 10 (twice as strong as an average human) yet he can take on bullets. That feat should put him at least 50 or 100 times as strong as the (fat farmer killed by Raditz) not twice.
Edited by Zenet, Jul 20 2013, 10:28 AM.
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