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| SSjin Tier (List) Challenge; Wanna take up the Challenge? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 10 2013, 08:23 PM (3,457 Views) | |
| + Pyrus | Jul 11 2013, 01:24 AM Post #31 |
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I see what you're saying, Clearin. The way I'm seeing it is if villain exceeds the Super Saiyan power we were shown in the manga, then they're in the next tier up (most of the time). The Super Saiyan tier is very broad because it encompasses Super Saiyan Goku on Namek all the way to the Cell Games and Boo arc (didn't included Goku and Vegeta from the latter arc in that form because they're largely irrelevant), so I separate the characters based on the gaps I see between them. Fat Boo starts his own tier because he requires a Super Saiyan 3 tier character to be beaten by, and then I try to go by gaps. There's a cutoff point for all of the tiers in my mind, so that's why it makes sense to me. @SSjinGoku001 I saw Freeza as a close rival to Super Saiyan Goku, so he'd fit in there just barely. The way I look at it, Movie 5 is an alternate universe where Goku beat Freeza and went straight home, so he didn't train on Yardrat, which would explain his inability to willingly control Super Saiyan or use the Shunkan-Ido. Thus, I view Goku as weaker, even considering Roshi's comment at the beginning that Goku had gotten stronger since Namek. I can flip the two around and have M5 Goku/Cooler > Yardrat Goku/Mecha Freeza, but whatever. A hypothetical fusion of those two? Hm. Probably in the upper Cell Games tier, possibly dipping into the low Super Saiyan 2 range. Edited by Pyrus, Jul 11 2013, 01:28 AM.
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Jul 11 2013, 01:33 AM Post #32 |
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That high really, I thought they'd be more around Semi-Perfect Cell or SSjin Grade-2 Vegeta. Your list looks awesome, too, just as I'd expect from you, so I guess we have a (undisputed) winner, |
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| + Pyrus | Jul 11 2013, 01:38 AM Post #33 |
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Naturally.I don't have exact gaps in my mind at the time, so I may be exaggerating the power of Coolza. |
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Jul 11 2013, 01:55 AM Post #34 |
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Also just noticed, you have Piccolo (Post-RoSaT) above SSjin Grade-2 Vegeta, I agree with you, but there are a lot of people who don't due to the Base Saiyans (Boo Saga) > Piccolo argument. Shouldn't Meta-Coola be below Imperfect Cell (Ginger-Town). And #13 being above SSjin Vegeta (Post Android-Training), seems to be somewhat stretching it. In your opinion, didn't any of the Humans ever reach SSjin Level/Tier, even with using SSjin Future Kid Trunks as the lowest possible limit (I know you didn't use that logic in your list, just asking) .Perfect-Cell only being "High SSjin Tier" is something, I agree with, I see a lot of people putting him at even "Low SSjin2 Tier". Sorry, for bombarding you with question, just that interested in your opinion.
Edited by StrawHatCrew, Jul 11 2013, 02:16 AM.
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| + Pyrus | Jul 11 2013, 02:23 AM Post #35 |
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The lowest I've seen people put him is right around Android No.16, but those people also thought the Gekiretsu Kodan had an amplification of at least 3.5x, so that justified Piccolo's post-RoSaT placement to them.
I don't think so. He could be depending on the gap you have between Cell and the Super Saiyans, but I don't have too big of one.
No.13 held a noticeable advantage over Goku, which is a gap I don't think Vegeta held over Goku since it took validation for Piccolo to confirm it himself.
No, they could've gotten close, but I don't believe any of the main humans ever surpassed Freeza.
Personal preference.
It doesn't bother me in the slightest. |
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Jul 11 2013, 05:50 AM Post #36 |
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Where would you place these guys & above whom: Spoiler: click to toggle Regarding Cell, he (Cell) put up a somewhat decent fight against weighted Piccolo, something, I don't think Vegeta could have done. Vegeta also called, Cell's Power "absurdly large". Not to mention both weighted Piccolo & Cell, were grouped together, by Trunks & Vegeta. Also, for what it's worth, Vegeta didn't seem scared of Coola & even fought him, whereas, Vegeta got scared by merely sensing Cell's Power & seemed even too scared to move. So, I think the gap between the SSjins & Cell, was huge based on that, even bigger than the gap between Meta-Coola & the SSjins. Also do you think Coola (Movie 5) is more powerful than SSjin Goku (Namek). (I know your list put it that way, but I'd just like an explanation.) Some think SSjin 2 Gohan (Boo Arc) is only "(Very) High Tier SSjin Tier", do you agree with that. That's all (at least, that's what I think. )
Edited by StrawHatCrew, Jul 11 2013, 06:49 AM.
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| + Pyrus | Jul 11 2013, 07:08 AM Post #37 |
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They're tricky. They managed to give Gohan trouble, but didn't appear to want to fight Vegeta, who decided to go right for Bojack instead of dealing with them first. I'd have to re-watch the movie to give a more accurate opinion.
Either stronger than Super Saiyan Goku from the Cell Games or somewhere in between No.18 and No.16, depending on if Toei nerfed the kids or haxxed Gohan.
Eh, I wouldn't know.
Cell couldn't land a hit on Piccolo, although none of Piccolo's attacks looked like they did damage to Cell either, so it's clear that Piccolo had the advantage but it wasn't too big. It definitely wasn't more than the Kamehameha amplifier since Piccolo felt the need to dodge the attack instead of deflecting it or blocking it. So "decent" I can agree on. I moved Metal Cooler under Cell, though just based on that fight, not based on Movie 6. Cooler was noticeably advantaged against Super Saiyan Goku before his first repair, and after that Goku's punch only pushed him back a few feet, not doing any real damage. Though this isn't about any of the repaired Coolers, so that's a moot point on me. But I digress.
Of course. Mecha Freeza wasn't that much more powerful than his organic self, who was able to rival Super Saiyan Goku. Cooler was stated to surpass Freeza's power before his transformation even finished. Then there's his spectacular Kamehameha diving of a stronger Goku.
If they have him strong enough that he's not irrelevant to post-zenkai Cell, I don't care what the tier is called. I edited in the other people you were wondering about. |
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Jul 11 2013, 12:00 PM Post #38 |
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Glad, that you have agreed on that. Also are you saying that SSjin 2 Teen Gohan could actually be relevant to Super-Perfect Cell (give him a good fight perhaps). I don't clearly understand whether, you mean Meta-Coola, Pre-Repair or Post-Repair & wasn't Meta-Coola, Pre-Repair beaten by a full-power punch from SSjin Goku (& I don't really think he was advantaged against SSjin Goku, Pre-Repair, I can't really remember, the fight, though)? As for Coola (Movie 5), you are making it sound like Goku was referring to Mecha-Frieza (when he stated that Coola surpassed Frieza), when Coola transformed, that would only make sense if the Movie happened in the Future Time-Line. You have Future #17 above SSjin Vegeta (post-android training), I remember you had a sample, not too long ago, where they were equal. #13 being above Future #17 & #14 & #15 being above Future #18, just sounds wrong (even though I know, it's probably the right placement ), especially the latter (#14 & #15 above Future #18).And shouldn't Trunks (post android training) still be below Future #18, considering he said, he could only fight them "fairly well", unless they were Gang-Banging him, in which case, he can be above Future #18 & maybe even Future #17 ![]() When you say SSjin Broly (Movie 8) is above SSjin Kid Gohan, you mean full-power, right & not restricted (RSSjin) we se in Movie 8. You have SSjin Broly (Movie 10) about equal with LSSjin Broly (Movie 8), I know that is a popular belief, but do you agree with that? Couldn't Base Gohan (Movie 10) be even higher than SSjin Goku (Cell Games), if he was haxed, I mean he thought of beating SSjin Broly in base, before he figured that Broly just powered up, too much & he did much better against Broly in base than the SSjin Kids implying, Base Gohan >~ SSjin Broly (Movie 8) >> SSjin Goten & Trunks SSjin Grade-3 Trunks above 50% SSjin Goku, really , I think that should be switched?You don't think #19 & #20 (Pre) are SSjin Level/Tier (?), if not, what level are they on & where would you place them (power-wise, doesn't have to be SSjin Tier)? How would, Coola (Movie 5) & SSjin Goku (Namek) status, look in numbers? Where would you place, SSjin Future Gohan (2 Arms)? I'd take a guess & say between Mecha-Frieza & Coola (Movie 5). Anyways, thank you for taking your time & answering my questions. Why are you guys acting like it is a crime to go onto that forum, is there something wrong with it?
Edited by StrawHatCrew, Jul 11 2013, 02:30 PM.
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| + Kyouks | Jul 11 2013, 06:22 PM Post #39 |
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He didn't say it was a bad thing, he's just curious. |
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Jul 11 2013, 06:28 PM Post #40 |
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Oh, OK then, the way everyone asked me made it seemed like, I did something wrong.
Edited by StrawHatCrew, Jul 11 2013, 06:30 PM.
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| + Pyrus | Jul 12 2013, 12:12 AM Post #41 |
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Yes, I am. Relevant is used loosely here.
Metal Cooler before any repairs. He was noticeably advantaged against Super Saiyan Goku. Goku's punch took Cooler's arm off, so do you think that was beating him? Before that he was knocking Goku into mountains and clearly winning their fight.
Goku was referring to the organic Freeza.
I have them equal or Vegeta at a slight disadvantage most of the time.
I switched No.18 with Trunks, but anyway. The movie androids are based off of the movie Super Saiyans, where I believe Goku and Vegeta switched places of strongest Saiyan since it's Toei and all. No.13 - 100 Future No.17 - 98 Vegeta - 92 (Goku in M7) Goku - 90 (Vegeta in M7) No.15 - 85 Future No.18 - 84 Trunks - 80 No.14 - 70 I guess it'd be something like that, without sitting here for too long doing all the math.
He did go from barely escaping against one of them to fighting both of them fairly well, so I could see him being able to tangle with No.18 very decently without interference from her brother.
Yes, full power.
Yes. I haven't seen another interpretation that makes any sense.
It would again depend on if Toei nerfed the strength of the kids or haxxed Gohan. If they haxxed Gohan, then he could conceivably be stronger than Cell Games Goku in Base, unless you dismiss it as Base Saiyan Toei garbage, which it very well could be.
There was a post by my colleague not too long ago explaining that when Vegeta and Cell talked about full powers, the Grade 2 form wasn't included, so it would make sense that Goku could feasibly produce such a reaction of awe without exceeding Grade 3 Trunks's strength.
No.19 can't be unless you ignore Gero's statement that he absorbed a magnificent amount of power from Goku, growing exponentially stronger, and yet still wasn't as bad as Trunks had made them out to be. I would put him around Mecha Freeza's power to be safe. When it comes to No.20, his pre-absorption power is murky, and it's largely irrelevant, so I just omit him from power placements these days.
Base - 3 M5 Base - 3.8 Goku - 150 M5 Goku - 190 (Mecha Freeza - 160) Cooler - ~165 In fact, you could have Cooler about equal with Mecha Freeza and it wouldn't hurt.
Below Mecha Freeza, and likely below organic Freeza. That Gohan was terribly weak. No problem. Edited by Pyrus, Jul 12 2013, 12:14 AM.
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4:31 PM Jul 13