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Piccolo and Base Saiyans
Topic Started: Jul 9 2013, 04:51 PM (6,969 Views)
IllogicalGlory
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ObsessiveFanGuy
Jul 9 2013, 05:23 PM
404 error for all of those images.
par for the course on those fanslation sites.
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I Yoeri

Cenet
Jul 9 2013, 05:26 PM
Because you seem to ignore things that I already explained.
I didn't ignore it. I explained why I think that's untrue.
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Gohan entered the tournament because Videl blackmailed him. When Gohan discussed the tournament with Chi-Chi at dinner, Chi-Chi said they'd have fifteen million zeni between him and Goku. Gohan was hesitant and said there'd be "no guarantee," while Chi-Chi insisted that one of the two would win.

I don't know where Zenet got the idea that Gohan said he'd win.
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He also never thought turning Super Saiyan would be "unfair," he wanted only to avoid recognition as the dude from the Cell Games.
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Zenet
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Lord Magus
Jul 9 2013, 05:01 PM
Cenet
Jul 9 2013, 04:58 PM
Same thing I said on another topic.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8781502&t=8422588
His performance in CG and the fact that Base Saiyans doesn't seem to be that much stronger in Boo Arc contradict those statements.

I'm not going to get into Dabra and Babidi's statement, because that's utter bulls***. The only real statement I can believe is that of Piccolo himself, when he says Kaioshin is in a different "dimension", which can be interpreted in two ways. You choose.
Even with the wrong interpreted Gohan quotes you still have evidence from other scenarios which say Base Saiyans > Piccolo.

- Badibi and Dabura's comments about the group outside the ship; the saiyans are clearly picked out for their strength

- Kaioshin being stronger than Piccolo, and Vegeta seems to make him look vastly inferior.

Chapter: 447 (DBZ 253), P11.1-3
Context: talking about how Yamu and Spopovitch were followed by Goku and co.
Dabra: “Seems they’re trying to hide from us…In total…there are 7. We can’t use Kaioshin and Kibito’s energy…But 3 of them seem to have marvelous energy…”
Babidi: “Looks like it. It seems that we’ll get more than enough energy from just those 3…Kuhihihi…To think that we’d be able to revive Majin Boo so quickly…”

According to Dabura 3 of them have marvelous energy. It cant be referring to Piccolo, Kaioshin, Kibito, or Krillin because as Dabura flat out says they cant use Kibito or Kaioshins energy and Dabura turned both Krillin and Piccolo to stone.


Edited by Zenet, Jul 9 2013, 07:26 PM.
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IllogicalGlory
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Cenet
Jul 9 2013, 07:23 PM
According to Dabura 3 of them have marvelous energy. It cant be referring to Piccolo, Kaioshin, Kibito, or Krillin because A Dabura flat out says they cant use Kibito or Kaioshins energy and Dabura turned both Krillin and Piccolo to stone.
Piccolo is always suppressing his energy, that's why Dr. Gero didn't get anything from him. It's totally reasonable to assume that he'd be doing the same thing here.
Edited by IllogicalGlory, Jul 9 2013, 07:27 PM.
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I Yoeri

Babidi has been shown to not be able to sense ki. Which means they are sensing something else.

And the Kaioshin quote? PFFFFFFFFF
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Alex D. Boss
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1. Piccolo can't sense Kaioshin's ki. Only Kai's can. Piccolo only forfeits because of Kami's feelings.

2. Marvelous energy doesn't mean Base Saiyan's power , but their hidden energy they have (SSJ of course)

3. Piccolo is implied to be higher than Semi Cell ( Atleast! ) , I don't see Base Saiyans anywhere at their level.

4. I'm handsome.
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Zenet
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IllogicalGlory
Jul 9 2013, 07:27 PM
Cenet
Jul 9 2013, 07:23 PM
According to Dabura 3 of them have marvelous energy. It cant be referring to Piccolo, Kaioshin, Kibito, or Krillin because A Dabura flat out says they cant use Kibito or Kaioshins energy and Dabura turned both Krillin and Piccolo to stone.
Piccolo is always suppressing his energy, that's why Dr. Gero didn't get anything from him. It's totally reasonable to assume that he'd be doing the same thing here.


All 7 were suppressed to hide.

Lord Magus
Jul 9 2013, 07:28 PM
Babidi has been shown to not be able to sense ki. Which means they are sensing something else.

And the Kaioshin quote? PFFFFFFFFF


What else are they sensing? It says right there there sensing marvellous energy to use for Majin Boo.

And you already know the Kaioshin quote that says Piccolo is a fly to him.
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I Yoeri

Cenet
Jul 9 2013, 07:42 PM
What else are they sensing? It says right there there sensing marvellous energy to use for Majin Boo.

And you already know the Kaioshin quote that says Piccolo is a fly to him.
If Babidi could sense ki, he would sense the heroes on the Lookout. He wouldn't need to threaten the humans.

And the Kaioshin quote can be, as I have said before, interpreted in two different ways.
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Cenet
Jul 9 2013, 07:23 PM
Even with the wrong interpreted Gohan quotes you still have evidence from other scenarios which say Base Saiyans > Piccolo.

- Badibi and Dabura's comments about the group outside the ship; the saiyans are clearly picked out for their strength
The Saiyans were suppressed, and so was Piccolo. They wouldn't find the suppressed Base Saiyans impressive, so they were seeing something beyond the suppression, and if they could do that, they could see beyond their base power. Whatever method they used is clearly faulty as they still thought they could defeat the Saiyans, but that way they'd still see more in the Saiyans than they would Piccolo.

The fact that Spopobitch, after reading Base Gohan's power on his meter, said that he's nothing special makes it clear that it isn't the Base Saiyans that are impressive.

Cenet
Jul 9 2013, 07:23 PM
- Kaioshin being stronger than Piccolo
You mean no one being able to sense Kaioshin's chi at the tournament, Piccolo not knowing why he's quivering before him, and then Piccolo concluding that the reason he's afraid is because he thinks Kaioshin is the Dai Kaio? Because that's pretty faulty evidence to support "Kaioshin being stronger than Piccolo."

Vegeta: “By his nature, Kaioshin is supposed to be someone tremendous, but have you ever once thought that he was incredible?”

It's a quote from well after the Budokai events, but it's clear that this is what Piccolo was basing his assumption on as Kaioshin was giving out no chi output.
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Dabura isn't sensing their full power because they're all suppressed, so what else could he be sensing? Possibly their hidden power or potential power, which would clearly make the Saiyans look far superior to Piccolo, which wouldn't be evidence of Base Saiyans > Piccolo, unless you want to claim he was sensing their hidden Base power somehow.
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Zenet
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Lord Magus
Jul 9 2013, 07:49 PM
Cenet
Jul 9 2013, 07:42 PM
What else are they sensing? It says right there there sensing marvellous energy to use for Majin Boo.

And you already know the Kaioshin quote that says Piccolo is a fly to him.
If Babidi could sense ki, he would sense the heroes on the Lookout. He wouldn't need to threaten the humans.

And the Kaioshin quote can be, as I have said before, interpreted in two different ways.


That doesn't really matter because it says right there Babidi thought they had marvellous energy whether he used a Majin device on the ship ,sensed it or just copied what Dabura said.

ObsessiveFanGuy
Jul 9 2013, 07:50 PM
Dabura isn't sensing their full power because they're all suppressed, so what else could he be sensing? Possibly their hidden power or potential power, which would clearly make the Saiyans look far superior to Piccolo, which wouldn't be evidence of Base Saiyans > Piccolo, unless you want to claim he was sensing their hidden Base power somehow.


Dabura mentioned Base Gohan was trash from there fight outside the ship implying he never knew about the SSJ ki or was he implying it to Kaioshin?
Edited by Zenet, Jul 9 2013, 08:20 PM.
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Dabura thought Gohan's power as a whole was trash compared to him, if you're talking about after they fought. It doesn't matter if they don't know what SSJ is anyways, they'd just 'sense' a pool of chi somehow, they don't have any way of concluding that it requires a transformation to surface.
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Zenet
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Kyouka Suigetsu
Jul 9 2013, 07:50 PM
Cenet
Jul 9 2013, 07:23 PM
Even with the wrong interpreted Gohan quotes you still have evidence from other scenarios which say Base Saiyans > Piccolo.

- Badibi and Dabura's comments about the group outside the ship; the saiyans are clearly picked out for their strength
The Saiyans were suppressed, and so was Piccolo. They wouldn't find the suppressed Base Saiyans impressive, so they were seeing something beyond the suppression, and if they could do that, they could see beyond their base power. Whatever method they used is clearly faulty as they still thought they could defeat the Saiyans, but that way they'd still see more in the Saiyans than they would Piccolo.

The fact that Spopobitch, after reading Base Gohan's power on his meter, said that he's nothing special makes it clear that it isn't the Base Saiyans that are impressive.

Cenet
Jul 9 2013, 07:23 PM
- Kaioshin being stronger than Piccolo
You mean no one being able to sense Kaioshin's chi at the tournament, Piccolo not knowing why he's quivering before him, and then Piccolo concluding that the reason he's afraid is because he thinks Kaioshin is the Dai Kaio? Because that's pretty faulty evidence to support "Kaioshin being stronger than Piccolo."

Vegeta: “By his nature, Kaioshin is supposed to be someone tremendous, but have you ever once thought that he was incredible?”

It's a quote from well after the Budokai events, but it's clear that this is what Piccolo was basing his assumption on as Kaioshin was giving out no chi output.



Goku and the rest all instantly notice that Kaioshin and Kibito are strong enough to potentially give them trouble. Vegeta says they haven't been able to "estimate" Kaioshin's strength. but they clearly think it's unusually high, they just can't tell exactly how high.
Considering how amazed Kaioshin is later on when he sees that Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta are more powerful than him, nothing indicates that he thinks Piccolo might be stronger. Piccolo says Kaioshin is stronger using the phrase " are dimensions are to different" and there's nothing to indicate Kaioshin is actually weaker other than a latter quote used by Krillin. It was the adult Saiyans who are the ones who are hyped up for being stronger than Kaioshin; Piccolo doesn't get the same treatment.

This type of feeling out suppressed ki is what Dabura sensed when he referred to marvellous energy of the Saiyans, he could have been referring to there potential SSJ ki, but does that ki exist even without transforming, it would be like sensing the Kaio Ken before use.
Edited by Zenet, Jul 10 2013, 04:21 PM.
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