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- Who was stronger Mecha Frieza or Dr. gero and android 19 pre absorption
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| Who was stronger Mecha Frieza or Dr. gero and android 19 pre absorption | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 21 2013, 01:28 PM (10,471 Views) | |
| + Pointer | Jun 22 2013, 06:19 AM Post #31 |
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you know trunks referred to 17 and 18 he didnt know anything about 19 20 |
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| + Emmeth | Jun 22 2013, 06:40 AM Post #32 |
I ♥ Yoeri
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He also said 17 and 18 was much much stronger in this timeline. |
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| + Pointer | Jun 22 2013, 08:20 AM Post #33 |
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it does not prove that 19 and 20 is equal to his futures 17 and 18 |
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| + Emmeth | Jun 22 2013, 08:41 AM Post #34 |
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I ♥ Yoeri
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No, but it does prove Trunks knows jack s***. |
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| EMIYA | Jun 22 2013, 12:31 PM Post #35 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
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It doesn't matter whether or not it's the real cyborgs. Trunks specifically tells Goku that at a certain location and time, two opponents with power far surpassing Freeza would show up. Goku and company have been specifically training to fight opponents stronger than Freeza, they expect to fight opponents stronger than Freeza. It's made specifically clear that compared to these guys, Freeza was nothing and that they needed to train as hard as the could. With no way to feel their power, one of their friends being nearly killed and Trunks pretty darn strict warning that these guys were utterly crush Freeza, it is only both fair and logical to believe Goku would want to fight at a level beyond Freeza and the initial level he showed wasn't even considered a threat by No. 19 and No. 20. |
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Jun 22 2013, 05:07 PM Post #36 |
 
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I definitly go with Mecha Frieza. Gero never knew anything about super saiyan form so we can assume that he didnt neaded so much power for himself and 19. Also vegetas statment clears this even more where he noticed that 19 is nothing like Trunks was talking them about. So yea we could also assume that ssj trunks 3 years before is still stronger than someone like 19,20... |
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| EMIYA | Jun 22 2013, 07:30 PM Post #37 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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@Pyrus: He didn't need to absorb any initially. From what scans or numbers Gero was picking up at initial SSJ Goku clearly wasn't at a threat level that would be deemed to dangerous for them. Like I said before if #16 can say "Vegeta's is superior in everyway" and Cell an come up and clearly overpower Vegeta without visibly raising his power, I can see the same thing here. And I still follow under my line that its only logical that Goku is already fighting at a level beyond Freeza in the first place as Trunks specifically told him the opponents would be far stronger. Trunks crushed Freeza and all the statements were basically just how awesome that stuff was and how instantly it was done. Post Yardrat Goku was, if just by a bit even stronger than Trunks, then they train for another 3 whole years and with Trunks very strict warning I feel its pretty hefty for Goku to be well above Freeza at this point. Even more so lets say Goku is at full power from the start and Gero has just miscalculated. You still pretty much have SSJ Goku (3 years)>>SSJ Goku (Yardrat)>~SSJ Trunks>Mecha Freeza. It's still easy to take No. 19 and No. 20 and put them between Time Skip Goku and Yardrat Goku. Nobody says that the cyborgs were weaker than Freeza, only that the cyborgs didn't seem as strong as they were thought out to be and Piccolo even wonders if perhaps they just got too strong. There's a limit to miscalculations though. Gero was confident that No. 19 could beat Initial SSJ Goku. He was quickly proven wrong but his calculations were apparently at the point where he was confident. If we say Goku is stronger, then I think its easy to say that the difference between Goku and No. 19, initially at least could not have been too high. Edited by EMIYA, Jun 22 2013, 07:33 PM.
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| * Yu Narukami | Jun 22 2013, 07:32 PM Post #38 |
Izanagi!
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I gotta read through the fight again, looking for any scouter sounds from Gero or #19 |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jun 22 2013, 09:46 PM Post #39 |
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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I agree with Super Vegetto. The fact that Gero had no knowledge of Super Saiyans points to him not making his power scale even nearly that high. His understanding of Saiyan power growth was linear, and Super Saiyan is not linear with it comes in comparison to base power. Also there's the fact that a (sickened) Goku could knock Gero back in base, even if only for a moment, with Yamcha's ki absorbed. I personally have pre-absorption 19 and 20 at around 2x fourth form Freeza's power when Freeza starts fighting (base) Goku. The fact that Piccolo was able to still completely outclass Gero with Yamcha and Super Vegeta's ki absorbed speaks volumes that they weren't that powerful initially. Based on our understanding of Namekian power and Piccolo's power growth, I have him at 100% Freeza max when he fights Gero. Vegeta's blast most likely didn't contain that much ki considering all he was trying to do was clear the area, and we know that focusing ki causes more damage, therefore a small amount of ki that's concentrated or focused can appear like a lot. Gero himself only absorbs raw ki. Concentrating ki may increase power, but it doesn't increase ki amount. So a blast that's only composed of 10% of Vegeta's ki can appear to be more like 70% of his full power if it's concentrated. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jun 22 2013, 09:47 PM.
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 The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| * Yu Narukami | Jun 22 2013, 09:56 PM Post #40 |
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Izanagi!
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So #19 and #20 are inferior to the Android Arc Base Saiyans? |
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| + Kyouks | Jun 22 2013, 10:16 PM Post #41 |
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If he could create someone as powerful as #16, it isn't implausible for himself to have power comparable to or even surpassing that of Freeza's. Gero wasn't on-guard, so the feat is no different from Piccolo landing a hit on 50% Freeza. I don't think someone of that level could react to Goku's punch, even if it was just once, sickened or not. What understanding? The year before the fight with Nappa brought his power up by less than 7x (400ish to under 2800). Six days on Kaio-sama's planet grants him a boost greater than 15x (under 2800 to over 42,000). We have no "understanding" of his power growth. We do know that he didn't lack confidence prior meeting the androids, despite Trunks having told them that the androids were stronger than him (“You’re pretty carefree…It’s not like I lack confidence…However, I can’t clear this uneasy premonition from my mind…”). We also know that he considers two possibilities after the mopping the floor with Gero - a) the androids are, for some reason, weaker, or b) we have gotten too powerful. Someone below the level of Freeza wouldn't cause him to consider 'b', and the only probably conclusion then would be 'a'. (Can't find it in strength checker for some reason, but he basically goes on about how whether or not history changed and whether or not the androids have become weak or he's become too strong). |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jun 23 2013, 07:16 AM Post #42 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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What you said about Gero's power scale potential is true, but even if he did make himself that strong (above 50% Freeza), it doesn't seem likely. Goku in sickened base was able to knock him back, and the difference between that and Piccolo with 50% Freeza is that Gero was practically looking at Goku when it happened. Freeza was completely unaware of Piccolo's approach, while Gero was standing only feet away from him. And to put it bluntly, how strong do you think a sick Goku is? He's undoubtedly nowhere near his SSj level on Namek, especially if he's sickened. Even if he's 30% Freeza, I think that's pushing it. When Goku starts fighting 19, Piccolo mentions that Goku as a Super Saiyan is nowhere near as strong as he should be. Goku started to show signs of illness when they left the house to go to the location of the Androids, and was out of breath when they flew to a different location to fight. Piccolo doesn't increase like the Saiyans do. That's our understanding. He doesn't have transformations and doesn't get Zenkai, in addition to this, there's absolutely no way to know how strong he is after he trained on Kaiosama's planet. So unless there's an official listing, your numbers are simply assertions. The only time we have a concept of how strong he is, is when he fights Freeza, which was after his fusion with Nail. Piccolo's perception of how strong or weak the Androids are and whether or not he's stronger or weaker than he was in Trunks's time doesn't change the fact that he was able to mop the floor with Gero. Piccolo did not have the training conditions of Kaiosama's planet during the three years, so his power would not have increased as quickly as it did during that time, even if we somehow knew how much his power had increased when he was on Kaiosama's. |
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The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| + Pyrus | Jun 23 2013, 07:18 AM Post #43 |
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What Gero didn't even get knocked back his hat fell off and that was it I mean WHAT |
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| + Emmeth | Jun 23 2013, 07:21 AM Post #44 |
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I ♥ Yoeri
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Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P13.6 Context: after No.19 punches Vegeta, to little effect Vegeta: “I figured you were at about that level…” All depends on what Vegeta figured. I don't think he would figure lower than Freeza. |
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Jun 23 2013, 09:18 AM Post #45 |
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Vegeta. Iv realized by watching your faint movments up to now...That you guys dont seam as terrible as the rumors made out. Than it goes quote that you already posted. From this it means that rumors are not true and that ssjtrunks 3 years before shouldnt be so scared of androids. Android 19,20 cant posibly be above 100mill without absorbstions. |
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