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Who was stronger Mecha Frieza or Dr. gero and android 19 pre absorption
Topic Started: Jun 21 2013, 01:28 PM (10,472 Views)
* Yu Narukami Jun 21 2013, 04:57 PM Post #16
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Izanagi!

 SSJ Goku (Healthy) > Android #20 > SSJ Goku (Sick) > Android #19 > SSJ Goku (Initial)
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+ Pyrus Jun 21 2013, 05:01 PM Post #17
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Brofist
Jun 21 2013, 04:54 PM
I'm not sure what the issue is.

They think Base Goku is weak as heck, understandable, no need to argue against it. They say the same thing to Vegeta.

Goku transforms, they're surprised cause they didn't expect this and his power has clearly been raised but still note that it isn't enough to defeat them.

Then as the fight goes on, Gero admits his mistake in underestimating their power.

It went from "I can easily defeat you..." to "You've raised your power up but I can still beat you" to "Alright, I was off, I need help..."
You're claiming #19 is stronger than Goku's sick power, aren't you?

I'm arguing that that is not the case. #20's whole quote says the complete opposite.
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EMIYA Jun 21 2013, 05:05 PM Post #18
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"I am the bone of my sword."

 Oh no, hardly that.

When Goku first transform, he truly is weaker than 19 and 20. As the fight goes on, he probably uses more energy and stats to overwhelm them. it's the same thing with Perfect Cell and Vegta. Vegeta is stated by #16 to be superior in every way and without a single note of a power up, Cell starts tanking kicks to the face.

Goku more than likely raised his power up to above No. 19, got sick and then maybe at some point his sickness got the better of him and it finally went blow 19 again, debatable perhaps. Goku healty>Sick Goku>Initial Goku (As drew indicated) is pretty much what we see and maybe at some point sick Goku got too weak that he finally went below Initial Goku by the end of the fight. I can't be too sure on that last one.
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+ Pyrus Jun 21 2013, 05:09 PM Post #19
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 I don't really see where Goku raised his power during the fight. It's pretty much a downward spiral from the moment he powers up.
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* Yu Narukami Jun 21 2013, 05:15 PM Post #20
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Izanagi!

 But then, Gero's confident that #19 could still beat the power that Goku was showing when he initially transformed.
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Professor Freeza Jun 21 2013, 05:21 PM Post #21
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 Are you sure that the Androids had great Power Level detectors ? They did think yamcha as Goku and didnt realize that SSJ Vegeta was Stronger than Post absorptions #19 . #16's Scouters were far better
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* Yu Narukami Jun 21 2013, 05:24 PM Post #22
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Izanagi!
Professor Freeza
Jun 21 2013, 05:21 PM
Are you sure that the Androids had great Power Level detectors ? They did think yamcha as Goku and didnt realize that SSJ Vegeta was Stronger than Post absorptions #19 . #16's Scouters were far better
They detected a power level that was much higher than average. All that tells us is that Yamcha is >>>>> Saiyan Saga fighters. They just made the incorrect assumptions that, based on estimates and such, it was Goku.
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Zenet Jun 21 2013, 05:32 PM Post #23
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Am going give this one ago.

Piccolo: “How about it, Son Goku…Frankly, do you think we can win against this enemy…”
Goku: “There’s no way I could know that without even seeing them. I’ll answer once I give it a try.”
Piccolo: “You’re pretty carefree…It’s not like I lack confidence…However, I can’t clear this uneasy premonition from my mind…”

Piccolo is unsure if they can win against this new threat who are supposedly stronger than Trunks.

So I would think Dr Gero and 19 is weaker than Mecha Frizea before absorption unless the absorptions made little difference in power.
Edited by Zenet, Jun 21 2013, 06:38 PM.
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EMIYA Jun 21 2013, 06:24 PM Post #24
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"I am the bone of my sword."

 There's all the reasos to think that once Goku transforms, he expressing a power far greater than Mecha Freeza. They can't sense their ki but they believe via Trunks that these "Cyborgs" would absolutely crush Freeza even more easily than Trunks did an once goku transforms, they still treat Goku as being weaker than them.
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mcclot1993 Jun 21 2013, 07:16 PM Post #25
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Emmeth
Jun 21 2013, 02:04 PM
It's not logical to go from a strong enemy to a weaker enemy. That's not what plot is about. That's why 17 and 18 were stronger in Present Time than in the Future.
Just because a couple villains show up later does not mean they are stronger. I mean for the mos tpart yeah but look at yamu and spopovitch they showed up late in the series and dodoria and zarbon could take them out probably characters way back in the freeza arc.
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+ Emmeth Jun 21 2013, 07:17 PM Post #26
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I ♥ Yoeri
mcclot1993
Jun 21 2013, 07:16 PM
Emmeth
Jun 21 2013, 02:04 PM
It's not logical to go from a strong enemy to a weaker enemy. That's not what plot is about. That's why 17 and 18 were stronger in Present Time than in the Future.
Just because a couple villains show up later does not mean they are stronger. I mean for the mos tpart yeah but look at yamu and spopovitch they showed up late in the series and dodoria and zarbon could take them out probably characters way back in the freeza arc.
They were side-kick villains, working for the main villain.
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Professor Freeza Jun 22 2013, 05:20 AM Post #27
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Emmeth
Jun 21 2013, 07:17 PM
mcclot1993
Jun 21 2013, 07:16 PM
Emmeth
Jun 21 2013, 02:04 PM
It's not logical to go from a strong enemy to a weaker enemy. That's not what plot is about. That's why 17 and 18 were stronger in Present Time than in the Future.
Just because a couple villains show up later does not mean they are stronger. I mean for the mos tpart yeah but look at yamu and spopovitch they showed up late in the series and dodoria and zarbon could take them out probably characters way back in the freeza arc.
They were side-kick villains, working for the main villain.
But Kid Buu was much weaker than Super Buu or Buuhan .
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+ Pyrus Jun 22 2013, 05:21 AM Post #28
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Brofist
Jun 21 2013, 06:24 PM
There's all the reasos to think that once Goku transforms, he expressing a power far greater than Mecha Freeza. They can't sense their ki but they believe via Trunks that these "Cyborgs" would absolutely crush Freeza even more easily than Trunks did an once goku transforms, they still treat Goku as being weaker than them.
They don't treat him weaker than them. They treat him as someone who isn't so far above them that they aren't capable of defeating.
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+ Emmeth Jun 22 2013, 05:29 AM Post #29
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I ♥ Yoeri
Professor Freeza
Jun 22 2013, 05:20 AM
Emmeth
Jun 21 2013, 07:17 PM
mcclot1993
Jun 21 2013, 07:16 PM
Emmeth
Jun 21 2013, 02:04 PM
It's not logical to go from a strong enemy to a weaker enemy. That's not what plot is about. That's why 17 and 18 were stronger in Present Time than in the Future.
Just because a couple villains show up later does not mean they are stronger. I mean for the mos tpart yeah but look at yamu and spopovitch they showed up late in the series and dodoria and zarbon could take them out probably characters way back in the freeza arc.
They were side-kick villains, working for the main villain.
But Kid Buu was much weaker than Super Buu or Buuhan .
This is true, but it's completely different. All the Majin Boo forms are different, and the plan all along was to go to Pure Boo. Everything else leading up to this point was to showcase the different characters in Boo arc. The powers just skyrocketed in Boo arc, which is why I dislike it.
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EMIYA Jun 22 2013, 05:32 AM Post #30
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"I am the bone of my sword."

 Then we seem to be reading the lines differently. I take the statement to mean that while Goku has greatly powered up from his base form, the initial level he was expressing was still not enough to defeat them. Especially when something like absorbing energy wasn't brought up at that time to defeat Goku. Against Vegeta, Gero directly notes that he needs to absorb the energy to get up to his level.

Against Goku, imo he treats it more like its still low enough that its still not a threat. Even if you consider Goku being stronger by this point, its definitely not a huge gap between #19 and himself.

And there's still the fact that Goku and everyone else thinks these guys are well above Freeza anyways, I think its only fair that Goku would at least want to express more power than Freeza. I mean when the guy from the future tells you "These cyborgs are beast, Freeza ain't got peanuts on these guys..." and they just nearly took out Yamcha. At this point, risking the chance of fighting at only Freeza's level or even lower than that is absurd imo.

And then you have #20>#19 (Vegeta Absorbed)>#19 (KHH Absorbed)>#19. Frankly if 19 didn't surpass Freeza, Gero definitely did I'd say.
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