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Who was stronger Mecha Frieza or Dr. gero and android 19 pre absorption
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Topic Started: Jun 21 2013, 01:28 PM (10,458 Views)
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* Yu Narukami
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Jun 24 2013, 10:41 PM
Post #226
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Izanagi!
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- ObsessiveFanGuy
- Jun 24 2013, 10:36 PM
- Drew
- Jun 24 2013, 10:27 PM
- ObsessiveFanGuy
- Jun 24 2013, 10:25 PM
- Drew
- Jun 24 2013, 10:13 PM
Where do you guys have Sick SSJ Goku in comparison to Pre-#19. Oh, and the humans too
The gap could be pretty big. Goku was clearly beating No.19 down with ease, but the android's lack of feeling allowed him to keep getting up, despite Gero's fear that he would soon run out of energy (implied anyway). The humans, well, I'll get back to you on that one. - Cenet
- Jun 24 2013, 10:22 PM
- ObsessiveFanGuy
- Jun 24 2013, 10:04 PM
- Cenet
- Jun 24 2013, 10:03 PM
- Kyouka Suigetsu
- Jun 24 2013, 09:57 PM
- Cenet
- Jun 24 2013, 09:55 PM
Android 17 used his full power on Gohan. Trunks never whiteness the full potential of the Future Android's.
There's no proof substantiating the first claim or going against it, but whether or not it's true doesn't alter it's irrelevancy anyways, and Trunks never witnessing their (the future androids') full power is contradictory to Trunks being able to fight either of them 'fairly well'.
It would just mean he never witnessed ,sensed or faced there full power.
When he goes from being barely able to escape against just one of them, to being able to fight fairly well against both of them, that's saying something.
It is said he was cable of managing something against one, though never stood a chance against both.
Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P3.3-4
Goku: “For you, a Super Saiyan who instantly defeated Freeza and co., to call them monsters is really something…
Trunks “Yes…I’ve stood against them, but unfortunately…In any case, I’m up against two of them…Even fighting one-on-one, I could barely manage to escape…”
Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.5
Trunks: “They’re also somewhat different from the androids I know…They weren’t as outrageously strong as this…Even I could fight them fairly well…”
How about the gap between #19 (Post-Vegeta's energy) and SSJ Vegeta (Drained)?
Hm, somewhat tricky. It was implied that No.19 draining Vegeta was the reason the Saiyan lost the majority of his energy, and not the Big Bang Attack. Obviously, though, No.19 was still below Vegeta for the guy to be able to rip the android's hands clear off in a less impressive fashion than Piccolo sliced Gero's hand off. No.19 at that point could be within 60% of Vegeta's power. - Brofist
- Jun 24 2013, 10:30 PM
Trunks lines are nothing short of contradictory BS. Unless you assume Trunks is referring to himself after 3 years when he makes the second statement, there's no way you can fit those two lines together, they against each other.
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Vegeta even after getting his energy absorbed was still much stronger than No. 19, it really just shows the kind of increase Vegeta had made in that time.
The first quote was when Trunks was talking to Goku, and the second was after the Vegeta-No.18 fight, so they don't contradict each other at all, and really lend credence to the future androids being weaker than the present pair.
So, #19 absorbed the Kamehameha, the rest of Goku's energy and a lot of Vegeta's energy, and Vegeta still has a 1.67x advantage on him?
Chapter 341 (DBZ 147), P14.6
Context: after No.19 absorbs Goku’s attack
No.20: “Alright! No.19’s maximum power rating has greatly increased from what it was before! In contrast, Son Goku’s energy has fallen remarkably…!”
Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P7.1
Context: when No.19 asks to fight Vegeta
No.20: “You’re so greedy…Even though you sucked so much energy out of Son Goku, and have raised your absolute power…”
#19 (Post-Vegeta) >> #19 (Post-Kamehameha) >> Sick SSJ Goku > #19 (Initial)
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+ Pyrus
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Jun 24 2013, 10:43 PM
Post #227
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- Brofist
- Jun 24 2013, 10:37 PM
Obviously that, I'm talking about how Trunks statement goes from talking about how he can't even handle one of them to saying how he can actually fight both of them for a while.
It means he got a lot stronger between Freeza and the androids, does it not?
- Cenet
- Jun 24 2013, 10:38 PM
The two quotes together just show he can hold his own against two or one in the short run before being killed.
The two quotes together show he got stronger and the androids either didn't bother to raise the power against him or simply couldn't.
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SSJ
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Jun 24 2013, 10:44 PM
Post #228
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I like how we have a 16 page topic on something not hard. Good work.
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EMIYA
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Jun 24 2013, 10:45 PM
Post #229
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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Which I said, unless Trunks is talking about his improvements after 3 years, the two lines are contradictions.
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* Stark
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Jun 24 2013, 10:47 PM
Post #230
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Rock Lobster
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- Drew
- Jun 24 2013, 10:41 PM
- ObsessiveFanGuy
- Jun 24 2013, 10:36 PM
- Drew
- Jun 24 2013, 10:27 PM
- ObsessiveFanGuy
- Jun 24 2013, 10:25 PM
- Drew
- Jun 24 2013, 10:13 PM
Where do you guys have Sick SSJ Goku in comparison to Pre-#19. Oh, and the humans too
The gap could be pretty big. Goku was clearly beating No.19 down with ease, but the android's lack of feeling allowed him to keep getting up, despite Gero's fear that he would soon run out of energy (implied anyway). The humans, well, I'll get back to you on that one. - Cenet
- Jun 24 2013, 10:22 PM
- ObsessiveFanGuy
- Jun 24 2013, 10:04 PM
- Cenet
- Jun 24 2013, 10:03 PM
- Kyouka Suigetsu
- Jun 24 2013, 09:57 PM
- Cenet
- Jun 24 2013, 09:55 PM
Android 17 used his full power on Gohan. Trunks never whiteness the full potential of the Future Android's.
There's no proof substantiating the first claim or going against it, but whether or not it's true doesn't alter it's irrelevancy anyways, and Trunks never witnessing their (the future androids') full power is contradictory to Trunks being able to fight either of them 'fairly well'.
It would just mean he never witnessed ,sensed or faced there full power.
When he goes from being barely able to escape against just one of them, to being able to fight fairly well against both of them, that's saying something.
It is said he was cable of managing something against one, though never stood a chance against both.
Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P3.3-4
Goku: “For you, a Super Saiyan who instantly defeated Freeza and co., to call them monsters is really something…
Trunks “Yes…I’ve stood against them, but unfortunately…In any case, I’m up against two of them…Even fighting one-on-one, I could barely manage to escape…”
Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.5
Trunks: “They’re also somewhat different from the androids I know…They weren’t as outrageously strong as this…Even I could fight them fairly well…”
How about the gap between #19 (Post-Vegeta's energy) and SSJ Vegeta (Drained)?
Hm, somewhat tricky. It was implied that No.19 draining Vegeta was the reason the Saiyan lost the majority of his energy, and not the Big Bang Attack. Obviously, though, No.19 was still below Vegeta for the guy to be able to rip the android's hands clear off in a less impressive fashion than Piccolo sliced Gero's hand off. No.19 at that point could be within 60% of Vegeta's power. - Brofist
- Jun 24 2013, 10:30 PM
Trunks lines are nothing short of contradictory BS. Unless you assume Trunks is referring to himself after 3 years when he makes the second statement, there's no way you can fit those two lines together, they against each other.
---
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Vegeta even after getting his energy absorbed was still much stronger than No. 19, it really just shows the kind of increase Vegeta had made in that time.
The first quote was when Trunks was talking to Goku, and the second was after the Vegeta-No.18 fight, so they don't contradict each other at all, and really lend credence to the future androids being weaker than the present pair.
So, #19 absorbed the Kamehameha, the rest of Goku's energy and a lot of Vegeta's energy, and Vegeta still has a 1.67x advantage on him? Chapter 341 (DBZ 147), P14.6 Context: after No.19 absorbs Goku’s attack No.20: “Alright! No.19’s maximum power rating has greatly increased from what it was before! In contrast, Son Goku’s energy has fallen remarkably…!” Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P7.1 Context: when No.19 asks to fight Vegeta No.20: “You’re so greedy…Even though you sucked so much energy out of Son Goku, and have raised your absolute power…” #19 (Post-Vegeta) >> #19 (Post-Kamehameha) >> Sick SSJ Goku > #19 (Initial)
Which is kind of weird, considering that #20 would beat the same Vegeta that destroyed Post-#19.
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+ Pyrus
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Jun 24 2013, 10:49 PM
Post #231
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- Drew
- Jun 24 2013, 10:41 PM
- ObsessiveFanGuy
- Jun 24 2013, 10:36 PM
- Drew
- Jun 24 2013, 10:27 PM
- ObsessiveFanGuy
- Jun 24 2013, 10:25 PM
- Drew
- Jun 24 2013, 10:13 PM
Where do you guys have Sick SSJ Goku in comparison to Pre-#19. Oh, and the humans too
The gap could be pretty big. Goku was clearly beating No.19 down with ease, but the android's lack of feeling allowed him to keep getting up, despite Gero's fear that he would soon run out of energy (implied anyway). The humans, well, I'll get back to you on that one. - Cenet
- Jun 24 2013, 10:22 PM
- ObsessiveFanGuy
- Jun 24 2013, 10:04 PM
- Cenet
- Jun 24 2013, 10:03 PM
- Kyouka Suigetsu
- Jun 24 2013, 09:57 PM
- Cenet
- Jun 24 2013, 09:55 PM
Android 17 used his full power on Gohan. Trunks never whiteness the full potential of the Future Android's.
There's no proof substantiating the first claim or going against it, but whether or not it's true doesn't alter it's irrelevancy anyways, and Trunks never witnessing their (the future androids') full power is contradictory to Trunks being able to fight either of them 'fairly well'.
It would just mean he never witnessed ,sensed or faced there full power.
When he goes from being barely able to escape against just one of them, to being able to fight fairly well against both of them, that's saying something.
It is said he was cable of managing something against one, though never stood a chance against both.
Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P3.3-4
Goku: “For you, a Super Saiyan who instantly defeated Freeza and co., to call them monsters is really something…
Trunks “Yes…I’ve stood against them, but unfortunately…In any case, I’m up against two of them…Even fighting one-on-one, I could barely manage to escape…”
Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.5
Trunks: “They’re also somewhat different from the androids I know…They weren’t as outrageously strong as this…Even I could fight them fairly well…”
How about the gap between #19 (Post-Vegeta's energy) and SSJ Vegeta (Drained)?
Hm, somewhat tricky. It was implied that No.19 draining Vegeta was the reason the Saiyan lost the majority of his energy, and not the Big Bang Attack. Obviously, though, No.19 was still below Vegeta for the guy to be able to rip the android's hands clear off in a less impressive fashion than Piccolo sliced Gero's hand off. No.19 at that point could be within 60% of Vegeta's power. - Brofist
- Jun 24 2013, 10:30 PM
Trunks lines are nothing short of contradictory BS. Unless you assume Trunks is referring to himself after 3 years when he makes the second statement, there's no way you can fit those two lines together, they against each other.
---
---
Vegeta even after getting his energy absorbed was still much stronger than No. 19, it really just shows the kind of increase Vegeta had made in that time.
The first quote was when Trunks was talking to Goku, and the second was after the Vegeta-No.18 fight, so they don't contradict each other at all, and really lend credence to the future androids being weaker than the present pair.
So, #19 absorbed the Kamehameha, the rest of Goku's energy and a lot of Vegeta's energy, and Vegeta still has a 1.67x advantage on him? Chapter 341 (DBZ 147), P14.6 Context: after No.19 absorbs Goku’s attack No.20: “Alright! No.19’s maximum power rating has greatly increased from what it was before! In contrast, Son Goku’s energy has fallen remarkably…!” Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P7.1 Context: when No.19 asks to fight Vegeta No.20: “You’re so greedy…Even though you sucked so much energy out of Son Goku, and have raised your absolute power…” #19 (Post-Vegeta) >> #19 (Post-Kamehameha) >> Sick SSJ Goku > #19 (Initial)
A 1.67x gap? No. I look at it from percentages.
@Brofist: I am talking about his improvements.
Edited by Pyrus, Jun 24 2013, 10:50 PM. |
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* Yu Narukami
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Jun 24 2013, 10:53 PM
Post #232
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Izanagi!
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- ObsessiveFanGuy
- Jun 24 2013, 10:49 PM
- Drew
- Jun 24 2013, 10:41 PM
- ObsessiveFanGuy
- Jun 24 2013, 10:36 PM
- Drew
- Jun 24 2013, 10:27 PM
- ObsessiveFanGuy
- Jun 24 2013, 10:25 PM
- Drew
- Jun 24 2013, 10:13 PM
Where do you guys have Sick SSJ Goku in comparison to Pre-#19. Oh, and the humans too
The gap could be pretty big. Goku was clearly beating No.19 down with ease, but the android's lack of feeling allowed him to keep getting up, despite Gero's fear that he would soon run out of energy (implied anyway). The humans, well, I'll get back to you on that one. - Cenet
- Jun 24 2013, 10:22 PM
- ObsessiveFanGuy
- Jun 24 2013, 10:04 PM
- Cenet
- Jun 24 2013, 10:03 PM
- Kyouka Suigetsu
- Jun 24 2013, 09:57 PM
- Cenet
- Jun 24 2013, 09:55 PM
Android 17 used his full power on Gohan. Trunks never whiteness the full potential of the Future Android's.
There's no proof substantiating the first claim or going against it, but whether or not it's true doesn't alter it's irrelevancy anyways, and Trunks never witnessing their (the future androids') full power is contradictory to Trunks being able to fight either of them 'fairly well'.
It would just mean he never witnessed ,sensed or faced there full power.
When he goes from being barely able to escape against just one of them, to being able to fight fairly well against both of them, that's saying something.
It is said he was cable of managing something against one, though never stood a chance against both.
Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P3.3-4
Goku: “For you, a Super Saiyan who instantly defeated Freeza and co., to call them monsters is really something…
Trunks “Yes…I’ve stood against them, but unfortunately…In any case, I’m up against two of them…Even fighting one-on-one, I could barely manage to escape…”
Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.5
Trunks: “They’re also somewhat different from the androids I know…They weren’t as outrageously strong as this…Even I could fight them fairly well…”
How about the gap between #19 (Post-Vegeta's energy) and SSJ Vegeta (Drained)?
Hm, somewhat tricky. It was implied that No.19 draining Vegeta was the reason the Saiyan lost the majority of his energy, and not the Big Bang Attack. Obviously, though, No.19 was still below Vegeta for the guy to be able to rip the android's hands clear off in a less impressive fashion than Piccolo sliced Gero's hand off. No.19 at that point could be within 60% of Vegeta's power. - Brofist
- Jun 24 2013, 10:30 PM
Trunks lines are nothing short of contradictory BS. Unless you assume Trunks is referring to himself after 3 years when he makes the second statement, there's no way you can fit those two lines together, they against each other.
---
---
Vegeta even after getting his energy absorbed was still much stronger than No. 19, it really just shows the kind of increase Vegeta had made in that time.
The first quote was when Trunks was talking to Goku, and the second was after the Vegeta-No.18 fight, so they don't contradict each other at all, and really lend credence to the future androids being weaker than the present pair.
So, #19 absorbed the Kamehameha, the rest of Goku's energy and a lot of Vegeta's energy, and Vegeta still has a 1.67x advantage on him? Chapter 341 (DBZ 147), P14.6 Context: after No.19 absorbs Goku’s attack No.20: “Alright! No.19’s maximum power rating has greatly increased from what it was before! In contrast, Son Goku’s energy has fallen remarkably…!” Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P7.1 Context: when No.19 asks to fight Vegeta No.20: “You’re so greedy…Even though you sucked so much energy out of Son Goku, and have raised your absolute power…” #19 (Post-Vegeta) >> #19 (Post-Kamehameha) >> Sick SSJ Goku > #19 (Initial)
A 1.67x gap? No. I look at it from percentages. @Brofist: I am talking about his improvements.
It's the same thing, though.
#19 being 60% of Vegeta means that Vegeta's 1.67x #19.
So, essentially
SSJ Vegeta >> SSJ Vegeta (Drained) >> #19 (Post-Vegeta's energy) >> #19 (Post-Kamehameha) >/>> SSJ Sick Goku
Is that what you're working with?
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SSJ
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Jun 24 2013, 10:55 PM
Post #233
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What are we arguing here?
19 Pre < Sick Goku < 19 Post < Drained SSJ Vegeta < Android 20 < Piccolo < SSJ Goku FP < SSJ Vegeta FP
That's what I'm running.
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* Yu Narukami
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Jun 24 2013, 10:56 PM
Post #234
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Izanagi!
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SSJ2's here?!
ABORT THREAD!
In all seriousness, that's what I run with, for the most part.
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SSJ
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Jun 24 2013, 10:58 PM
Post #235
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Sorry for ruining the fun  
But who is arguing against that?
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+ Pyrus
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Jun 24 2013, 11:14 PM
Post #236
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The trick is getting Vegeta weak enough so that Gero can defeat him (and whether absorption plays into this or not is a good thing to look into) yet strong enough to defeat No.19, who had powered up immensely from the two fights he was in, because you still need to fit Piccolo in there while keeping the good guys around the future androids' level, more or less.
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SSJ
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Jun 24 2013, 11:18 PM
Post #237
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19 Pre: 100
SSJ Sick Goku: 115
19 Post: 150
SSJ Vegeta Weak: 175
20: 200
Piccolo: 225
SSJ Goku FP: 240
SSJ Goku: 250
That's what I'd do.
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* Stark
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Jun 24 2013, 11:19 PM
Post #238
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Rock Lobster
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So you have #20 twice as strong as 19? Isn't that a bit too much? Was Gero that confident in #19 beating Goku?
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SSJ
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Jun 24 2013, 11:23 PM
Post #239
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- Quote:
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So you have #20 twice as strong as 19? Isn't that a bit too much? Was Gero that confident in #19 beating Goku?
Well I agree. I do think it's a bit much. I think this is only possible with really tight gaps. Maybe like this.
19 Pre: 100
SSJ Sick Goku: 105
19 Post: 120
SSJ Weak Vegeta: 125
20: 140
Piccolo: 150
SSJ Goku: 175
SSJ Vegeta: 182
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DEY DID DIS 2 ME
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Jun 24 2013, 11:59 PM
Post #240
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MY FACE!
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