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Who was stronger Mecha Frieza or Dr. gero and android 19 pre absorption
Topic Started: Jun 21 2013, 01:28 PM (10,459 Views)
+ Kyouks Jun 24 2013, 10:09 PM Post #211
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 But they always group the androids together like that, Drew. When reading the line you posted, it would appear that Vegeta's including Gero when he hasn't even seen him fight. I wouldn't think too much it. I still think 19 post is superior to pre-training Trunks, it simply isn't a pummel-worthy advantage (should've just said stomping gap, the f*** is pummel-worthy?).
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+ Pyrus Jun 24 2013, 10:11 PM Post #212
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Drew
Jun 24 2013, 10:05 PM
ObsessiveFanGuy
Jun 24 2013, 10:00 PM
Drew
Jun 24 2013, 09:56 PM
Right, can't say I disagree with ya, but lemme' check. Are we all thinking that Androids > Mecha Freeza?
I can see the argument for both sides. Personally, right now I'm leaning toward No.19 being around Mecha Freeza's level.

I remember I used to argue tooth and nail that it was asinine to think the androids could be anywhere near as weak as Freeza prior to absorbing any energy. Alas, that was before Shinden Reborn.
Ah, but Pyro-kun, then you'd have a situation where Trunks pre-training would be superior to Pre-absorption #19.

Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P7.4
Vegeta: “I’ve realized by watching your faint movements up to now…That you guys don’t seem as terrible as the rumors made out.”

19's also included when both Piccolo and Vegeta talk about the Androids and Trunks' warning, meaning that they still consider them both to be strong enough to pummel Trunks, seeing as Trunks' statement that he couldn't beat them wasn't brought into question
Ah, well, Kyouka-san jumped on this before I could strike. How slow I am getting...

I agree with him, by the way.
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* Yu Narukami Jun 24 2013, 10:13 PM Post #213
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Izanagi!

 Where do you guys have Sick SSJ Goku in comparison to Pre-#19. Oh, and the humans too
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* Stark Jun 24 2013, 10:15 PM Post #214
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Rock Lobster

 Pre #19 wasn't able to strike a single hit on Goku before the illness kicked in stronger and his Kamehameha was absorbed so I'd say the gap is pretty wide, because it was pretty much a stomp on Goku's part.

Oh, the humans. Much more of a troublesome number to give. They're indeed implied to be of some help, unlike Yamcha. I'd have them around 50% Frieza and that's pushing it a lot. Maybe less. :errm:
Edited by Stark, Jun 24 2013, 10:19 PM.
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EMIYA Jun 24 2013, 10:17 PM Post #215
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"I am the bone of my sword."

 I'd say Sick Goku>~No. 19, though this is really hard to tell. Goku initially had a very clear advantage but I think once Goku got sick he starts fairing much worst and by the time he shot the KHH, not only did he drop his level great, but also increased No. 19's power as well.

I think that once Goku started getting sick again and his power dropping, it got closer to the expectations that No. 19 could handle Goku as Gero had predicted.
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+ Kyouks Jun 24 2013, 10:17 PM Post #216
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Drew
Jun 24 2013, 10:13 PM
Where do you guys have Sick SSJ Goku in comparison to Pre-#19. Oh, and the humans too
Enough to stomp him easily, but nothing crazy. 1.2~1.25x?

The humans would probably be at least around 20% Freeza in my opinion, and I usually have #19 pre around or fairly stronger than Mecha Freeza. Just what I usually get when I try to work out the shiz with Gero and SSJ Vegeta.
Edited by Kyouks, Jun 24 2013, 10:17 PM.
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EMIYA Jun 24 2013, 10:18 PM Post #217
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"I am the bone of my sword."

 Oh if you mean like Sick Goku fighting No. 19 (But not suffering under the Heart Virus as much) then yes, it's a small gap but it's stomp gap nonetheless. I assume you meant Goku actually getting more sick as he's fighting No. 19.
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Zenet Jun 24 2013, 10:22 PM Post #218
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ObsessiveFanGuy
Jun 24 2013, 10:04 PM
Cenet
Jun 24 2013, 10:03 PM
Kyouka Suigetsu
Jun 24 2013, 09:57 PM
Cenet
Jun 24 2013, 09:55 PM
Android 17 used his full power on Gohan. Trunks never whiteness the full potential of the Future Android's.
There's no proof substantiating the first claim or going against it, but whether or not it's true doesn't alter it's irrelevancy anyways, and Trunks never witnessing their (the future androids') full power is contradictory to Trunks being able to fight either of them 'fairly well'.
It would just mean he never witnessed ,sensed or faced there full power.
When he goes from being barely able to escape against just one of them, to being able to fight fairly well against both of them, that's saying something.
It is said he was cable of managing something against one, though never stood a chance against both.
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+ Pyrus Jun 24 2013, 10:25 PM Post #219
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Drew
Jun 24 2013, 10:13 PM
Where do you guys have Sick SSJ Goku in comparison to Pre-#19. Oh, and the humans too

The gap could be pretty big. Goku was clearly beating No.19 down with ease, but the android's lack of feeling allowed him to keep getting up, despite Gero's fear that he would soon run out of energy (implied anyway).

The humans, well, I'll get back to you on that one.
Cenet
Jun 24 2013, 10:22 PM
ObsessiveFanGuy
Jun 24 2013, 10:04 PM
Cenet
Jun 24 2013, 10:03 PM
Kyouka Suigetsu
Jun 24 2013, 09:57 PM
Cenet
Jun 24 2013, 09:55 PM
Android 17 used his full power on Gohan. Trunks never whiteness the full potential of the Future Android's.
There's no proof substantiating the first claim or going against it, but whether or not it's true doesn't alter it's irrelevancy anyways, and Trunks never witnessing their (the future androids') full power is contradictory to Trunks being able to fight either of them 'fairly well'.
It would just mean he never witnessed ,sensed or faced there full power.
When he goes from being barely able to escape against just one of them, to being able to fight fairly well against both of them, that's saying something.
It is said he was cable of managing something against one, though never stood a chance against both.

Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P3.3-4
Goku: “For you, a Super Saiyan who instantly defeated Freeza and co., to call them monsters is really something…
Trunks “Yes…I’ve stood against them, but unfortunately…In any case, I’m up against two of them…Even fighting one-on-one, I could barely manage to escape…”

Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.5
Trunks: “They’re also somewhat different from the androids I know…They weren’t as outrageously strong as this…Even I could fight them fairly well…”
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* Yu Narukami Jun 24 2013, 10:27 PM Post #220
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Izanagi!
ObsessiveFanGuy
Jun 24 2013, 10:25 PM
Drew
Jun 24 2013, 10:13 PM
Where do you guys have Sick SSJ Goku in comparison to Pre-#19. Oh, and the humans too

The gap could be pretty big. Goku was clearly beating No.19 down with ease, but the android's lack of feeling allowed him to keep getting up, despite Gero's fear that he would soon run out of energy (implied anyway).

The humans, well, I'll get back to you on that one.
Cenet
Jun 24 2013, 10:22 PM
ObsessiveFanGuy
Jun 24 2013, 10:04 PM
Cenet
Jun 24 2013, 10:03 PM
Kyouka Suigetsu
Jun 24 2013, 09:57 PM
Cenet
Jun 24 2013, 09:55 PM
Android 17 used his full power on Gohan. Trunks never whiteness the full potential of the Future Android's.
There's no proof substantiating the first claim or going against it, but whether or not it's true doesn't alter it's irrelevancy anyways, and Trunks never witnessing their (the future androids') full power is contradictory to Trunks being able to fight either of them 'fairly well'.
It would just mean he never witnessed ,sensed or faced there full power.
When he goes from being barely able to escape against just one of them, to being able to fight fairly well against both of them, that's saying something.
It is said he was cable of managing something against one, though never stood a chance against both.

Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P3.3-4
Goku: “For you, a Super Saiyan who instantly defeated Freeza and co., to call them monsters is really something…
Trunks “Yes…I’ve stood against them, but unfortunately…In any case, I’m up against two of them…Even fighting one-on-one, I could barely manage to escape…”

Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.5
Trunks: “They’re also somewhat different from the androids I know…They weren’t as outrageously strong as this…Even I could fight them fairly well…”
How about the gap between #19 (Post-Vegeta's energy) and SSJ Vegeta (Drained)?
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EMIYA Jun 24 2013, 10:30 PM Post #221
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"I am the bone of my sword."

 Trunks lines are nothing short of contradictory BS. Unless you assume Trunks is referring to himself after 3 years when he makes the second statement, there's no way you can fit those two lines together, they against each other.
---
---

Vegeta even after getting his energy absorbed was still much stronger than No. 19, it really just shows the kind of increase Vegeta had made in that time.
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* Stark Jun 24 2013, 10:30 PM Post #222
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Rock Lobster

 The gap wasn't that big there I guess. Right after his Big Bang attack Vegeta couldn't defeat #20.
Unless:
a) The Big Bang attack really drained him, which would lead at a noticeable decrease in power.
b) You believe #20 > #19 (Post Draining), which I don't believe.
Edited by Stark, Jun 24 2013, 10:32 PM.
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+ Pyrus Jun 24 2013, 10:36 PM Post #223
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Drew
Jun 24 2013, 10:27 PM
ObsessiveFanGuy
Jun 24 2013, 10:25 PM
Drew
Jun 24 2013, 10:13 PM
Where do you guys have Sick SSJ Goku in comparison to Pre-#19. Oh, and the humans too

The gap could be pretty big. Goku was clearly beating No.19 down with ease, but the android's lack of feeling allowed him to keep getting up, despite Gero's fear that he would soon run out of energy (implied anyway).

The humans, well, I'll get back to you on that one.
Cenet
Jun 24 2013, 10:22 PM
ObsessiveFanGuy
Jun 24 2013, 10:04 PM
Cenet
Jun 24 2013, 10:03 PM
Kyouka Suigetsu
Jun 24 2013, 09:57 PM
Cenet
Jun 24 2013, 09:55 PM
Android 17 used his full power on Gohan. Trunks never whiteness the full potential of the Future Android's.
There's no proof substantiating the first claim or going against it, but whether or not it's true doesn't alter it's irrelevancy anyways, and Trunks never witnessing their (the future androids') full power is contradictory to Trunks being able to fight either of them 'fairly well'.
It would just mean he never witnessed ,sensed or faced there full power.
When he goes from being barely able to escape against just one of them, to being able to fight fairly well against both of them, that's saying something.
It is said he was cable of managing something against one, though never stood a chance against both.

Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P3.3-4
Goku: “For you, a Super Saiyan who instantly defeated Freeza and co., to call them monsters is really something…
Trunks “Yes…I’ve stood against them, but unfortunately…In any case, I’m up against two of them…Even fighting one-on-one, I could barely manage to escape…”

Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.5
Trunks: “They’re also somewhat different from the androids I know…They weren’t as outrageously strong as this…Even I could fight them fairly well…”
How about the gap between #19 (Post-Vegeta's energy) and SSJ Vegeta (Drained)?

Hm, somewhat tricky. It was implied that No.19 draining Vegeta was the reason the Saiyan lost the majority of his energy, and not the Big Bang Attack. Obviously, though, No.19 was still below Vegeta for the guy to be able to rip the android's hands clear off in a less impressive fashion than Piccolo sliced Gero's hand off.

No.19 at that point could be within 60% of Vegeta's power.
Brofist
Jun 24 2013, 10:30 PM
Trunks lines are nothing short of contradictory BS. Unless you assume Trunks is referring to himself after 3 years when he makes the second statement, there's no way you can fit those two lines together, they against each other.
---
---

Vegeta even after getting his energy absorbed was still much stronger than No. 19, it really just shows the kind of increase Vegeta had made in that time.

The first quote was when Trunks was talking to Goku, and the second was after the Vegeta-No.18 fight, so they don't contradict each other at all, and really lend credence to the future androids being weaker than the present pair.
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EMIYA Jun 24 2013, 10:37 PM Post #224
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"I am the bone of my sword."

 Obviously that, I'm talking about how Trunks statement goes from talking about how he can't even handle one of them to saying how he can actually fight both of them for a while.
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Zenet Jun 24 2013, 10:38 PM Post #225
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The two quotes together just show he can hold his own against two or one in the short run before being killed.
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