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Who was stronger Mecha Frieza or Dr. gero and android 19 pre absorption
Topic Started: Jun 21 2013, 01:28 PM (10,460 Views)
+ Kyouks Jun 24 2013, 09:40 PM Post #196
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 Trunks had trained over the 3 years like Goku did. Prior to that, every instance of Trunks fighting the androids speaks of him getting whooped. He's even mentioned to be not so far ahead of Future Gohan prior to the time skip, whom the androids obliterated.
Edited by Kyouks, Jun 24 2013, 09:41 PM.
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* Yu Narukami Jun 24 2013, 09:40 PM Post #197
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Izanagi!
ObsessiveFanGuy
Jun 24 2013, 09:37 PM
Drew
Jun 24 2013, 09:28 PM
Well, ya have to argue that Sick SSJ Goku is around Mecha Freeza if ya want the Androids to be beneath him, because Goku didn't show an overwhelming advantage like Vegeta did. Androids can't feel pain, but if Goku was a lot stronger, his punches would be having a lot more of an impact.

Vegeta's hits did look like they had more effect on No.19 than Goku's, and Vegeta's facial expressions compared to Goku's implied this as well.
Alex KloonBoss
Jun 24 2013, 09:29 PM
^ Not to mention how 19 stood up easy after a hard hit of Goku.

He can't feel pain, so unless his internal mechanisms are broken, he will keep getting up.

By the way, reading over the fight, I noticed No.19 reaching out at Goku during their fight after Goku kicks him into the air, as if he was trying to grab him to absorb his energy there.

http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dragon_Ball-buyao_daolian_ya/0.jp_Kanzenban/DRAGONBALLvol23/170-WIIbJ.jpg

Bottom right-hand panel. Though that could be a simple palm strike.

@Brofist: That's sort of what I've been saying this entire time. Goku is stronger, but not to the point where absorbing his energy wouldn't allow No.19 to win.
I think it's more to do with their fighting style. They're obviously not martial arts masters, so they'd try and absorb energy from the very beginning to compensate for that. Sorta like; ''Why should I fight this skilled warrior when I could just grab him and absorb his energy?''

Plus, #19's energy seemed like it depleted pretty quickly, so they'll probably want to try and keep a constant supply of energy.
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EMIYA Jun 24 2013, 09:42 PM Post #198
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"I am the bone of my sword."

 No. 19 actually does quite a few moves against Goku, not just palm strikes. He does head buts, punches, etc. I'm sure if he got Goku he'd take his energy but not all of his attacks consisted of just attacking with his palms to get energy.
Edited by EMIYA, Jun 24 2013, 09:43 PM.
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+ Kyouks Jun 24 2013, 09:46 PM Post #199
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 The other strikes could have been thrown with the intent to lead up to the energy absorption though, but that's merely one of the many possibilities of what a careless mistake on Goku's part could have brought about.
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+ Pyrus Jun 24 2013, 09:48 PM Post #200
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Kyouka Suigetsu
Jun 24 2013, 09:40 PM
Trunks had trained over the 3 years like Goku did. Prior to that, every instance of Trunks fighting the androids speaks of him getting whooped. He's even mentioned to be not so far ahead of Future Gohan prior to the time skip, whom the androids obliterated.

But if the future androids were no different in power from the present androids, then Trunks couldn't have gotten more powerful in the time skip.
Drew
Jun 24 2013, 09:40 PM
ObsessiveFanGuy
Jun 24 2013, 09:37 PM
Drew
Jun 24 2013, 09:28 PM
Well, ya have to argue that Sick SSJ Goku is around Mecha Freeza if ya want the Androids to be beneath him, because Goku didn't show an overwhelming advantage like Vegeta did. Androids can't feel pain, but if Goku was a lot stronger, his punches would be having a lot more of an impact.

Vegeta's hits did look like they had more effect on No.19 than Goku's, and Vegeta's facial expressions compared to Goku's implied this as well.
Alex KloonBoss
Jun 24 2013, 09:29 PM
^ Not to mention how 19 stood up easy after a hard hit of Goku.

He can't feel pain, so unless his internal mechanisms are broken, he will keep getting up.

By the way, reading over the fight, I noticed No.19 reaching out at Goku during their fight after Goku kicks him into the air, as if he was trying to grab him to absorb his energy there.

http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dragon_Ball-buyao_daolian_ya/0.jp_Kanzenban/DRAGONBALLvol23/170-WIIbJ.jpg

Bottom right-hand panel. Though that could be a simple palm strike.

@Brofist: That's sort of what I've been saying this entire time. Goku is stronger, but not to the point where absorbing his energy wouldn't allow No.19 to win.
I think it's more to do with their fighting style. They're obviously not martial arts masters, so they'd try and absorb energy from the very beginning to compensate for that. Sorta like; ''Why should I fight this skilled warrior when I could just grab him and absorb his energy?''

Plus, #19's energy seemed like it depleted pretty quickly, so they'll probably want to try and keep a constant supply of energy.

I merely think that was the plan once Goku's power was expressed to be superior to theirs. Absorbing his energy would have put them back on top, as that's the type of android they are.

Goku's fierce attacks were what Gero was scared of. The power Goku had combined with how he was fighting put a big dent in No.19's chances of lasting long enough to absorb Goku's power, which Gero caught onto rather quickly, and brought upon his following statement.
Brofist
Jun 24 2013, 09:42 PM
No. 19 actually does quite a few moves against Goku, not just palm strikes. He does head buts, punches, etc. I'm sure if he got Goku he'd take his energy but not all of his attacks consisted of just attacking with his palms to get energy.

He tries punching Goku a couple of times, but that's about it for his offensive palette. Goku does the rest.
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Zenet Jun 24 2013, 09:55 PM Post #201
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Kyouka Suigetsu
Jun 24 2013, 09:40 PM
Trunks had trained over the 3 years like Goku did. Prior to that, every instance of Trunks fighting the androids speaks of him getting whooped. He's even mentioned to be not so far ahead of Future Gohan prior to the time skip, whom the androids obliterated.
Android 17 used his full power on Gohan. Trunks never whiteness the full potential of the Future Android's.
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* Yu Narukami Jun 24 2013, 09:56 PM Post #202
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Izanagi!

 Right, can't say I disagree with ya, but lemme' check. Are we all thinking that Androids > Mecha Freeza?
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+ Kyouks Jun 24 2013, 09:57 PM Post #203
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Cenet
Jun 24 2013, 09:55 PM
Android 17 used his full power on Gohan. Trunks never whiteness the full potential of the Future Android's.
There's no proof substantiating the first claim or going against it, but whether or not it's true doesn't alter it's irrelevancy anyways, and Trunks never witnessing their (the future androids') full power is contradictory to Trunks being able to fight either of them 'fairly well'.
Edited by Kyouks, Jun 24 2013, 09:58 PM.
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+ Pyrus Jun 24 2013, 10:00 PM Post #204
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Drew
Jun 24 2013, 09:56 PM
Right, can't say I disagree with ya, but lemme' check. Are we all thinking that Androids > Mecha Freeza?
I can see the argument for both sides. Personally, right now I'm leaning toward No.19 being around Mecha Freeza's level.

I remember I used to argue tooth and nail that it was asinine to think the androids could be anywhere near as weak as Freeza prior to absorbing any energy. Alas, that was before Shinden Reborn.
Edited by Pyrus, Jun 24 2013, 10:01 PM.
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* Yu Narukami Jun 24 2013, 10:00 PM Post #205
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Izanagi!

 No.17: “Our turn? …Heh heh heh… Sorry to disappoint you…but I didn’t even use half my power when we fought before.”

Gohan > Future 17 (30-40%)

That's all we know. Considering Gohan's miserable gains in the future, I wouldn't bet that 17 used more than half, perhaps 6/10ths at the most
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+ Pyrus Jun 24 2013, 10:02 PM Post #206
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Drew
Jun 24 2013, 10:00 PM
No.17: “Our turn? …Heh heh heh… Sorry to disappoint you…but I didn’t even use half my power when we fought before.”

Gohan > Future 17 (30-40%)

That's all we know. Considering Gohan's miserable gains in the future, I wouldn't bet that 17 used more than half, perhaps 6/10ths at the most
My POV is that Gohan was enough to handle about half of No.17's power, but not enough to deal with both of them simultaneously, so the gap wouldn't be very big.
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+ Kyouks Jun 24 2013, 10:03 PM Post #207
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 Either way, Trunks isn't too different from Gohan, and whether or not 17 used half or three-quarters of all of his power on Gohan, he's garbage to the androids either way, so the same'd apply to Trunks before the 3 year time skip.
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Zenet Jun 24 2013, 10:03 PM Post #208
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Kyouka Suigetsu
Jun 24 2013, 09:57 PM
Cenet
Jun 24 2013, 09:55 PM
Android 17 used his full power on Gohan. Trunks never whiteness the full potential of the Future Android's.
There's no proof substantiating the first claim or going against it, but whether or not it's true doesn't alter it's irrelevancy anyways, and Trunks never witnessing their (the future androids') full power is contradictory to Trunks being able to fight either of them 'fairly well'.
It would just mean he never witnessed ,sensed or faced there full power.
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+ Pyrus Jun 24 2013, 10:04 PM Post #209
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Cenet
Jun 24 2013, 10:03 PM
Kyouka Suigetsu
Jun 24 2013, 09:57 PM
Cenet
Jun 24 2013, 09:55 PM
Android 17 used his full power on Gohan. Trunks never whiteness the full potential of the Future Android's.
There's no proof substantiating the first claim or going against it, but whether or not it's true doesn't alter it's irrelevancy anyways, and Trunks never witnessing their (the future androids') full power is contradictory to Trunks being able to fight either of them 'fairly well'.
It would just mean he never witnessed ,sensed or faced there full power.
When he goes from being barely able to escape against just one of them, to being able to fight fairly well against both of them, that's saying something.
Edited by Pyrus, Jun 24 2013, 10:04 PM.
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* Yu Narukami Jun 24 2013, 10:05 PM Post #210
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Izanagi!
ObsessiveFanGuy
Jun 24 2013, 10:00 PM
Drew
Jun 24 2013, 09:56 PM
Right, can't say I disagree with ya, but lemme' check. Are we all thinking that Androids > Mecha Freeza?
I can see the argument for both sides. Personally, right now I'm leaning toward No.19 being around Mecha Freeza's level.

I remember I used to argue tooth and nail that it was asinine to think the androids could be anywhere near as weak as Freeza prior to absorbing any energy. Alas, that was before Shinden Reborn.
Ah, but Pyro-kun, then you'd have a situation where Trunks pre-training would be superior to Pre-absorption #19.

Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P7.4
Vegeta: “I’ve realized by watching your faint movements up to now…That you guys don’t seem as terrible as the rumors made out.”

19's also included when both Piccolo and Vegeta talk about the Androids and Trunks' warning, meaning that they still consider them both to be strong enough to pummel Trunks, seeing as Trunks' statement that he couldn't beat them wasn't brought into question
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