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Who was stronger Mecha Frieza or Dr. gero and android 19 pre absorption
Topic Started: Jun 21 2013, 01:28 PM (10,461 Views)
EMIYA Jun 24 2013, 09:07 PM Post #181
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"I am the bone of my sword."

 Yes, they're talking about strain, the pressure on the body and that Goku and Gohan have gotten the SSJ form to be much more natural so that there's not all that pressure on the body. Nothing at all before or after states that they couldn't suppress themselves, only that the strain of the form was worst than it was until they managed to relax it after the ROSAT.
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+ Kyouks Jun 24 2013, 09:11 PM Post #182
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 Brofist strikes, now we're f***ed.

Where do you think Goku suppressed himself, prior to fighting 19?
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EMIYA Jun 24 2013, 09:17 PM Post #183
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"I am the bone of my sword."

 If you mean by where did Gero think No. 19 could handle Goku?

Anywhere above Yardrat Goku, be a little, a lot, up to you. Goku was told that the cyborgs (and as far as its concerned these are the cyborgs) would have **** stomped all of them 3 years ago, taken their nuts, crushed them into butter, smashedtheir eyes, made jelly, grind their bones into a fine pasty bread and forced fed them a sandwich of flesh and despair cause that's how apparently beast these guys were.

It only makes sense to me that Goku would at least want to start out with a bit more power his yardrat.
Edited by EMIYA, Jun 24 2013, 09:17 PM.
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Alex D. Boss Jun 24 2013, 09:17 PM Post #184
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 I think Brofist means:

20 thinks: 19 > SSJ Goku (when standing)

and then it goes: SSJ Goku (Bursting and attacking 19 ) > 19
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DEY DID DIS 2 ME Jun 24 2013, 09:18 PM Post #185
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MY FACE!

 Butta: "Doods only 5000"
Reacoom: [mouth gape open after being hit]
Butta: "But he must be 5000, he didn't even bulk his muscles!"

< 5% to 50% an instant

50% to 66.7% an instant

Max Power is usually reached by either using a technique or powering up and only lasts for an instant.

Vegeta uses a max power blast against Freeza.

100% Freeza is a technique that allows Freeza to maintain 100% power beyond an blast.

Son Goku says that Future Trunks is strong enough to kill Freeza.
Posted Image~( w h a t c h u   g o n n a   d o , b r o t h e r ? ! )
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+ Kyouks Jun 24 2013, 09:23 PM Post #186
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 I didn't mean what level do you think he suppressed himself down to, Brofist, but I was clarifying the instance. Looks like I hit the mark, anyways.

USSJ2 Trunks did something similar when he stalled in order for Krillin to get Vegeta off the battlefield, no? Not suppression exactly, but he didn't power up all the way until Krillin and Vegeta were gone. Not that I think Goku or any Super Saiyan suppressed anywhere, but could that be comparable here or did that only work because the USSJ forms aren't transformations, but simply an excessive output of additional chi?
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Alex D. Boss Jun 24 2013, 09:23 PM Post #187
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 I feel like Father B.. Nightroad finished this.
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+ Pyrus Jun 24 2013, 09:25 PM Post #188
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Brofist
Jun 24 2013, 09:07 PM
Yes, they're talking about strain, the pressure on the body and that Goku and Gohan have gotten the SSJ form to be much more natural so that there's not all that pressure on the body. Nothing at all before or after states that they couldn't suppress themselves, only that the strain of the form was worst than it was until they managed to relax it after the ROSAT.

I'm blanking on where the evidence is that anybody can suppress beforehand, though.
Alex KloonBoss
Jun 24 2013, 09:17 PM
I think Brofist means:

20 thinks: 19 > SSJ Goku (when standing)

and then it goes: SSJ Goku (Bursting and attacking 19 ) > 19

One remarks that Goku's Ki is amazing and he's not even fighting when Trunks encounters him, so there could be a difference between how a power feels when it's only standing around versus how it feels in action.
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* Yu Narukami Jun 24 2013, 09:28 PM Post #189
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Izanagi!

 Well, ya have to argue that Sick SSJ Goku is around Mecha Freeza if ya want the Androids to be beneath him, because Goku didn't show an overwhelming advantage like Vegeta did. Androids can't feel pain, but if Goku was a lot stronger, his punches would be having a lot more of an impact.
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Alex D. Boss Jun 24 2013, 09:29 PM Post #190
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 ^ Not to mention how 19 stood up easy after a hard hit of Goku.
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+ Kyouks Jun 24 2013, 09:34 PM Post #191
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Drew
Jun 24 2013, 09:28 PM
Well, ya have to argue that Sick SSJ Goku is around Mecha Freeza if ya want the Androids to be beneath him, because Goku didn't show an overwhelming advantage like Vegeta did. Androids can't feel pain, but if Goku was a lot stronger, his punches would be having a lot more of an impact.
To be fair, Imperfect Cell's hits didn't have the impact you would imagine for someone who tanked the Light Grenade. Though I agree regardless since there's no additional factor going against this in this case.
Alex KloonBoss
Jun 24 2013, 09:29 PM
^ Not to mention how 19 stood up easy after a hard hit of Goku.
That specifically was attributed to the androids not feeling pain.
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EMIYA Jun 24 2013, 09:35 PM Post #192
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"I am the bone of my sword."

 I think they treat ASSJ as a separate form, they call it beyond super Saiyan and all that but in reality its really nothing more than just buffing your muscles up a bit and Grade III just really buffing up your muscles. Plus judging from SSJ Vegeta, Semi-Cell and ASSJ Vegeta, the increase isn't even all that much considering Cell could land a heck of a punch on Vegeta without the guy tanking it and its implied that ASSJ Vegeta>Semi-Cell>SSJ Vegeta

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There is neither any statements for or against the idea that they can't suppress their powers as SSJs. In fact until Goku's little statement in the ROSAT, you'd have hardly thought there was any strain on the SSj either considering how easily Goku, Trunks, Vegeta and everyone else transforms and handles it.
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Quote:
 
One remarks that Goku's Ki is amazing and he's not even fighting when Trunks encounters him, so there could be a difference between how a power feels when it's only standing around versus how it feels in action.


It's possible. I for one seriously think Gero was reading off actual data and numbers and comparing it to his own and No. 19. He sees Base Goku and Base Vegeta and calls them weak and by all means they really are. Goku transforms and he admits that Goku's power has gone up but still treats it like he can win. It's only after Goku starts attacking that Gero finally admits that he was wrong and that No. 19 will lose unless he absorbs Goku's energy.

Goku prior to this may still have been stronger, but it was clearly at level that Gero just didn't think was threatening.
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* Yu Narukami Jun 24 2013, 09:36 PM Post #193
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Izanagi!
Kyouka Suigetsu
Jun 24 2013, 09:34 PM
Drew
Jun 24 2013, 09:28 PM
Well, ya have to argue that Sick SSJ Goku is around Mecha Freeza if ya want the Androids to be beneath him, because Goku didn't show an overwhelming advantage like Vegeta did. Androids can't feel pain, but if Goku was a lot stronger, his punches would be having a lot more of an impact.
To be fair, Imperfect Cell's hits didn't have the impact you would imagine for someone who tanked the Light Grenade. Though I agree regardless since there's no additional factor going against this in this case.
Ah, you've got a point, hadn't really considered Cell's advantage and impact.
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+ Pyrus Jun 24 2013, 09:37 PM Post #194
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Drew
Jun 24 2013, 09:28 PM
Well, ya have to argue that Sick SSJ Goku is around Mecha Freeza if ya want the Androids to be beneath him, because Goku didn't show an overwhelming advantage like Vegeta did. Androids can't feel pain, but if Goku was a lot stronger, his punches would be having a lot more of an impact.

Vegeta's hits did look like they had more effect on No.19 than Goku's, and Vegeta's facial expressions compared to Goku's implied this as well.
Alex KloonBoss
Jun 24 2013, 09:29 PM
^ Not to mention how 19 stood up easy after a hard hit of Goku.

He can't feel pain, so unless his internal mechanisms are broken, he will keep getting up.

By the way, reading over the fight, I noticed No.19 reaching out at Goku during their fight after Goku kicks him into the air, as if he was trying to grab him to absorb his energy there.

http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dragon_Ball-buyao_daolian_ya/0.jp_Kanzenban/DRAGONBALLvol23/170-WIIbJ.jpg

Bottom right-hand panel. Though that could be a simple palm strike.

@Brofist: That's sort of what I've been saying this entire time. Goku is stronger, but not to the point where absorbing his energy wouldn't allow No.19 to win.
Edited by Pyrus, Jun 24 2013, 09:38 PM.
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Zenet Jun 24 2013, 09:39 PM Post #195
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Alex KloonBoss
Jun 24 2013, 09:00 PM
Cenet
Jun 24 2013, 07:17 PM
Alex KloonBoss
Jun 24 2013, 11:04 AM
It doesn't matter really if Frieza uses his FP or not , it is implied that Frieza became slightly stronger than himself , as being confident to take SSJ Goku Namek on with his father , thats it , nothing stated him being superior compared to his old self.

As Crashbreaka puts the nail in the coffin ; the rumors being not bad proves our point better as Frieza being irrelevant at this current state while the Droids are respectivily a challenge.
Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P7.4
Vegeta: “I’ve realized by watching your faint movements up to now…That you guys don’t seem as terrible as the rumors made out.”

Vegeta wasn't comparing the androids to Freeza he was comparing them to trunks story.

Future Trunks says to the Z Fighters and Yadrat Goku he was cable of fighting the future androids separately, but when they teamed up, he didn't stand a chance.

Android 19 fighting Vegeta was below that kind of power who already absorbed allot of energy before hand. So really were would you put 19 before he absorbed anything? I would certainly put him below Trunks and possibly Mecha Freeza and SSJ Goku. Which is the topic here.




The rumors were true. Thats the point your argument fails when you use that quote, as The Droids are implied to be above Yardrat Goku.

Pre 19 being between Trunks and Y Goku could either way.

@ I would also like to bring up one bigass post against Super Vegetto , but Brofist already finished this lmao.
You mean the rumours are not true it says it right there.

like the saying "you're not as bad as you say you are "

Trunks was seemingly able to hold his own against one Android according to him making the gap between Trunks and the Future Androids a Vegeta vs Recoome situation at most.


Android 19 being weaker than the suspected Androids should put him around Trunks level. Before he absorbed anything he should be below.


Andriod Goku > Future Androids >~ Yadrat Goku > Trunks ~ 19 fighting Vegeta
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