Vegetunks vs Goken

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Vegetunks vs Goken
Tweet Topic Started: Jun 16 2013, 09:04 PM (1,754 Views)
Vertical	Jun 17 2013, 11:08 PM Post #31
Posts: 2,542 Group: Member Member #8,475 Joined: October 27, 2012	miguelnuva Jun 17 2013, 08:47 PM Vertical Jun 17 2013, 09:04 AM miguelnuva Jun 17 2013, 07:53 AM I believe more in the small gains for Goten and Trunks are huge gains for Gotenks. So you believe in an inconsistent fusion formula... or some sort of Universal Clipboard that Gotenks exists within when he doesn't exist in the normal world? No I thinking more like Gotenks pre: 3x4= 12 MSSJ Gotenks pre: 120 Gotenks post: 11x12=132 Goten and Trunks would not have surpassed their pre SSJ forms but Gotenks's base has surpassed his SSJ pre form. So an inconsistent formula then. Or are the 3 and the 4 supposed to represent Goten and Trunks? If that is the case... then you believe that matching their power before fusing has no effect on the outcome? And that you somehow multiply their strengths against each other? Please explain in detail if you can. Vegeta8558 Jun 17 2013, 09:10 PM it doesn't make sense for Trunks or Goten to have surpasses their Ssj self counter parts pre rosat That's the whole point of this conversation; why doesn't it make sense?
	DeviantART


+ miguelnuva	Jun 18 2013, 09:11 AM Post #32
Posts: 4,068 Group: Elite Member Member #8,291 Joined: September 16, 2012 Favourite Anime DragonBall Z What Browser do you use? FireFox Favourite Manga Sailor Moon	Vertical Jun 17 2013, 11:08 PM miguelnuva Jun 17 2013, 08:47 PM Vertical Jun 17 2013, 09:04 AM miguelnuva Jun 17 2013, 07:53 AM I believe more in the small gains for Goten and Trunks are huge gains for Gotenks. So you believe in an inconsistent fusion formula... or some sort of Universal Clipboard that Gotenks exists within when he doesn't exist in the normal world? No I thinking more like Gotenks pre: 3x4= 12 MSSJ Gotenks pre: 120 Gotenks post: 11x12=132 Goten and Trunks would not have surpassed their pre SSJ forms but Gotenks's base has surpassed his SSJ pre form. So an inconsistent formula then. Or are the 3 and the 4 supposed to represent Goten and Trunks? If that is the case... then you believe that matching their power before fusing has no effect on the outcome? And that you somehow multiply their strengths against each other? Please explain in detail if you can. I meant to say Goten and Trunks are 3 in base form. Using just an example 3x3= 9 which would be base Gotenks. We however know that Gotenks is SSJ2 tire so 9x5= 45. Goten and Trunks as SSJs fusing would be 30(Yes I know these numbers don't match.) Gotenks(pre): 45 Mssj Gotenks (Pre): 450 Now we get Goten= 10 pst ROSAT. 10x10x5 Goten x Trunks x Dance would equaly Base Gotenks(post)= 500. Goten and Trunks making small gains make huge gains for Gotenks.
	Gogeta power placement


Vertical	Jun 18 2013, 09:55 AM Post #33
Posts: 2,542 Group: Member Member #8,475 Joined: October 27, 2012	Ah, OK, you're using a "(A x B) x C" formula.... or at least attempting to. That will never work if you want "Fusing as SSJ" to equal "Fusing and then going SSJ". If they weren't equal, Goten and Trunks would have fused as SSJ's the final time they fused [right before being absorbed].
	DeviantART


+ Majin Vegeta	Jun 18 2013, 05:18 PM Post #34
The resident GT fan! Posts: 8,522 Group: Elite Member Member #9,206 Joined: March 17, 2013 Gender Male Country Greece Favourite Anime DragonBall/Z/GT, Code Geass,Attack on Titan, Death Note, Naruto What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga DragonBall/Z, Naruto, Death Note, Yugioh!	So basically Vertical you think that post rosat Trunks and Goten are equal to their Ssj counterparts pre rosat?
	"Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta


Vertical	Jun 18 2013, 07:51 PM Post #35
Posts: 2,542 Group: Member Member #8,475 Joined: October 27, 2012	Vegeta8558 Jun 18 2013, 05:18 PM So basically Vertical you think that post rosat Trunks and Goten are equal to their Ssj counterparts pre rosat? I am not saying that is what I believe. What I believe is irrelevant. What I am saying is that if you* believe the following: - simple fusion formula - [Post-RoSaT] Base Gotenks > [Pre-RoSaT] SSJ Gotenks - SSJ transformations are the same for all ...then you MUST conclude that [Post-RoSaT] Base Goten and Trunks are superior to their [Pre-RoSaT] SSJ selves. All of the above interpretations are completely valid... the only reason people even battle against them is a strange fixation with a high SSJ:Base ratio... *not directly aimed at you Vegeta8558, just "you" in the general term.
	DeviantART


+ Majin Vegeta	Jun 18 2013, 07:55 PM Post #36
The resident GT fan! Posts: 8,522 Group: Elite Member Member #9,206 Joined: March 17, 2013 Gender Male Country Greece Favourite Anime DragonBall/Z/GT, Code Geass,Attack on Titan, Death Note, Naruto What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga DragonBall/Z, Naruto, Death Note, Yugioh!	Vertical Jun 18 2013, 07:51 PM Vegeta8558 Jun 18 2013, 05:18 PM So basically Vertical you think that post rosat Trunks and Goten are equal to their Ssj counterparts pre rosat? I am not saying that is what I believe. What I believe is irrelevant. What I am saying is that if you* believe the following: - simple fusion formula - [Post-RoSaT] Base Gotenks > [Pre-RoSaT] SSJ Gotenks - SSJ transformations are the same for all ...then you MUST conclude that [Post-RoSaT] Base Goten and Trunks are superior to their [Pre-RoSaT] SSJ selves. All of the above interpretations are completely valid... the only reason people even battle against them is a strange fixation with a high SSJ:Base ratio... *not directly aimed at you Vegeta8558, just "you" in the general term. Yeah yeah I know Vertical its ok don't worry we're just debating as for topic how would Goten and Trunks ever be stronger than their counterparts in base in just 15 days how can they get a 50x times boost both of them? Note I might missing a point here so please be detailed in your next post
	"Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta


Vertical	Jun 18 2013, 08:39 PM Post #37
Posts: 2,542 Group: Member Member #8,475 Joined: October 27, 2012	Vegeta8558 Jun 18 2013, 07:55 PM Vertical Jun 18 2013, 07:51 PM Vegeta8558 Jun 18 2013, 05:18 PM So basically Vertical you think that post rosat Trunks and Goten are equal to their Ssj counterparts pre rosat? I am not saying that is what I believe. What I believe is irrelevant. What I am saying is that if you* believe the following: - simple fusion formula - [Post-RoSaT] Base Gotenks > [Pre-RoSaT] SSJ Gotenks - SSJ transformations are the same for all ...then you MUST conclude that [Post-RoSaT] Base Goten and Trunks are superior to their [Pre-RoSaT] SSJ selves. All of the above interpretations are completely valid... the only reason people even battle against them is a strange fixation with a high SSJ:Base ratio... not directly aimed at you Vegeta8558, just "you" in the general term. Yeah yeah I know Vertical its ok don't worry we're just debating as for topic how would Goten and Trunks ever be stronger than their counterparts in base in just 15 days how can they get a 50x times boost both of them?* Note I might missing a point here so please be detailed in your next post This is exactly my point. You cannot disregard the 3 points above, which were implied within the manga, simply because of an excessively basic SSJ formula that seems contradictory or unsupported at every turn bar it's initial use. If the "not-stated-anywhere-in-the-manga-and-requires-story-bending-to-remain-remotely-possible" formula is what is holding you back... change the formula.
	DeviantART


+ Majin Vegeta	Jun 18 2013, 08:42 PM Post #38
The resident GT fan! Posts: 8,522 Group: Elite Member Member #9,206 Joined: March 17, 2013 Gender Male Country Greece Favourite Anime DragonBall/Z/GT, Code Geass,Attack on Titan, Death Note, Naruto What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga DragonBall/Z, Naruto, Death Note, Yugioh!	Ok then I quests you're right but I can't believe how can those two regain such boosts in such a short period of time anyway I believe your formula is right but do you including Piccolos statement that even the slightest gains separately make the fusion result massively stronger?and if the kids are that strong does this mean they surpass their fathers?
	"Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta


+ Pyrus	Jun 18 2013, 08:43 PM Post #39
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Piccolo didn't notice any big increase in the boys' powers when he saw them. He only noted one for Gotenks.
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+ Majin Vegeta	Jun 18 2013, 08:44 PM Post #40
The resident GT fan! Posts: 8,522 Group: Elite Member Member #9,206 Joined: March 17, 2013 Gender Male Country Greece Favourite Anime DragonBall/Z/GT, Code Geass,Attack on Titan, Death Note, Naruto What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga DragonBall/Z, Naruto, Death Note, Yugioh!	Darth Pyrus Jun 18 2013, 08:43 PM Piccolo didn't notice any big increase in the boys' powers when he saw them. He only noted one for Gotenks. See,that's exactly my point there is no evidence that the children increase their power separately that's what I try to prove
	"Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta


Vertical	Jun 18 2013, 09:00 PM Post #41
Posts: 2,542 Group: Member Member #8,475 Joined: October 27, 2012	Vegeta8558 Jun 18 2013, 08:44 PM Darth Pyrus Jun 18 2013, 08:43 PM Piccolo didn't notice any big increase in the boys' powers when he saw them. He only noted one for Gotenks. See,that's exactly my point there is no evidence that the children increase their power separately that's what I try to prove Must be that Universal Clipboard then.
	DeviantART


+ Majin Vegeta	Jun 18 2013, 09:00 PM Post #42
The resident GT fan! Posts: 8,522 Group: Elite Member Member #9,206 Joined: March 17, 2013 Gender Male Country Greece Favourite Anime DragonBall/Z/GT, Code Geass,Attack on Titan, Death Note, Naruto What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga DragonBall/Z, Naruto, Death Note, Yugioh!	Perhaps lol !
	"Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta


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