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How strong Dende was ?
Topic Started: Jun 1 2013, 06:49 PM (1,483 Views)
bardock1990
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Captain Cadaver
Jun 2 2013, 12:52 AM
bardock1990
Jun 1 2013, 09:33 PM
And captain cavader, I think Toriyama picking someone like Bob Sapp as an example shows he didn't watch much fighting. Sapp is a total joke of a fighter both in MMA and kickboxing, he only looks the part. So Hercule would be much stronger than that.
He couldn't even knock out the gunman. Mr. Satan isn't that strong. A fair grappler by an average guy's standards, but far less impressive than a lot of real life fighters.

KetchupRevenge
 
Some people have suggested that you need a PL of at least 1000 to have an aura, which Dende has after his unlock, but Roshi is seen with one in early Dragon Ball during the foot race.
Flying =/= Running
lol Hercule can jump like 10+ feet into the air and his strikes are several times faster than even Bruce Lee, not to mention his durability. He'd destroy any real life fighter just based on those feats.
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Captain Cadaver
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bardock1990
Jun 2 2013, 12:56 AM
lol Hercule can jump like 10+ feet into the air and his strikes are several times faster than even Bruce Lee, not to mention his durability. He'd destroy any real life fighter just based on those feats.
Firstly, no. His strikes are never shown to be anything of worth. Secondly, his durability is mainly gag-related, especially since he almost died from a bullet despite being hit into a mountain. Thirdly, as I already said before, he couldn't even knock a normal human unconcious despite being enraged and holding nothing back, and was even panting after punching him a few times. How exactly is that kind of pathetic showing for someone dubbed the "world champion" meant to destroy any real life martial artist?!
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bardock1990
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Captain Cadaver
Jun 2 2013, 01:01 AM
bardock1990
Jun 2 2013, 12:56 AM
lol Hercule can jump like 10+ feet into the air and his strikes are several times faster than even Bruce Lee, not to mention his durability. He'd destroy any real life fighter just based on those feats.
Firstly, no. His strikes are never shown to be anything of worth. Secondly, his durability is mainly gag-related, especially since he almost died from a bullet despite being hit into a mountain. Thirdly, as I already said before, he couldn't even knock a normal human unconcious despite being enraged and holding nothing back, and was even panting after punching him a few times. How exactly is that kind of pathetic showing for someone dubbed the "world champion" meant to destroy any real life martial artist?!
That's a cop-out statement: "gag". I could just as easily use that to discredit your example of the gunman not being killed by Hercule's assault plus you're wrong, hercule did KO him. Have you ever even seen a real life fight? A single clean punch to the dome knocks almost every human being unconcious. All of these anime characters on the other hand are superhuman in comparison. And you're wrong, his strikes have shown to be something: he was the champion of DBZ's regular humans who would all be much stronger than real life fighters. A guy who's 10 times faster than Bruce Lee would destroy the current UFC HW champion.

And again, Toriyama doesn't realise what a joke Bob Sapp actually is. He's just a freak show that entertained a lot of people in Japan in fixed fights.
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Captain Cadaver
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bardock1990
Jun 2 2013, 01:10 AM
That's a cop-out statement: "gag". I could just as easily use that to discredit your example of the gunman not being killed by Hercule's assault plus you're wrong, hercule did KO him. Have you ever even seen a real life fight? A single clean punch to the dome knocks almost every human being unconcious. All of these anime characters on the other hand are superhuman in comparison. And you're wrong, his strikes have shown to be something: he was the champion of DBZ's regular humans who would all be much stronger than real life fighters. A guy who's 10 times faster than Bruce Lee would destroy the current UFC HW champion.
And again, Toriyama doesn't realise what a joke Bob Sapp actually is. He's just a freak show that entertained a lot of people in Japan in fixed fights.
Yet his survival against Cell compared to almost being killed by a bullet show the majority of durability feats to be outliers.
Mark only KO'd the guy in the anime. In the manga, the gunman shot him mere seconds after Mr. Satan had finished hitting him multiple times.

Show me the examples of speed feats that place him above Bruce Lee. IIRC, the manga shows nothing of the sort. The statement of 25th TB competitors>>Real life humans is completely baseless. The announcer stated that the competition and amount of good fighters had dropped drastically since Goku and co. stopped competing, plus none of them present any feats or statements of worth, except for Punter's athletic display, which was ironically beyond what Mr. Satan ever showed.
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bardock1990
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Captain Cadaver
Jun 2 2013, 01:15 AM
bardock1990
Jun 2 2013, 01:10 AM
That's a cop-out statement: "gag". I could just as easily use that to discredit your example of the gunman not being killed by Hercule's assault plus you're wrong, hercule did KO him. Have you ever even seen a real life fight? A single clean punch to the dome knocks almost every human being unconcious. All of these anime characters on the other hand are superhuman in comparison. And you're wrong, his strikes have shown to be something: he was the champion of DBZ's regular humans who would all be much stronger than real life fighters. A guy who's 10 times faster than Bruce Lee would destroy the current UFC HW champion.
And again, Toriyama doesn't realise what a joke Bob Sapp actually is. He's just a freak show that entertained a lot of people in Japan in fixed fights.
Yet his survival against Cell compared to almost being killed by a bullet show the majority of durability feats to be outliers.
Mark only KO'd the guy in the anime. In the manga, the gunman shot him mere seconds after Mr. Satan had finished hitting him multiple times.

Show me the examples of speed feats that place him above Bruce Lee. IIRC, the manga shows nothing of the sort. The statement of 25th TB competitors>>Real life humans is completely baseless. The announcer stated that the competition and amount of good fighters had dropped drastically since Goku and co. stopped competing, plus none of them present any feats or statements of worth, except for Punter's athletic display, which was ironically beyond what Mr. Satan ever showed.
Of cource you're gonna refer to the Manga because there's no visuals there which is the most important aspect in this discussion. I'd like to see the part in the Manga where you claim the gunman got up in 'mere seconds'. Yes, the fact that he survived the Cell slap/crash into mountains does your constant clinging to the gunshot no good. How about the fact that he didn't get killed right away while perhaps a real life human would die immediately? Or any other "gag" moments where he receives damage that would kill the strongest UFC fighter in a split second. As for your examples go watch the anime where he shows off his speed. Like I said, these characters are superhuman and would fold up even the best real fighter. I don't see why you have such a problem with this.
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Captain Cadaver
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http://www.mangareader.net/105-3134-7/dragon-ball/chapter-485.html
http://www.mangareader.net/105-3134-8/dragon-ball/chapter-485.html
http://www.mangareader.net/105-3134-9/dragon-ball/chapter-485.html

The timeframe between the events dosen't seem to be much more than a few seconds. The shot that he recieved wouldn't immediately kill a normal human either, unless hitting a vital organ. The mountain feat on the other hand is obviously not a serious event like Satan being shot was, plus Piccolo even noted that Cell supressed his effort down to such a level that it wouldn't kill Satan.
Using the anime is obviously flawed for Satan's feats, as such ones as the gunman being KO'd or Mark pulling a truck and punching through a part of it blatantly contradict what we're shown on his capabilities in the manga. In short, Anime Satan~Peak Humans>>>>Manga Satan>Average Martial Artist.
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bardock1990
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Captain Cadaver
Jun 2 2013, 01:34 AM
http://www.mangareader.net/105-3134-7/dragon-ball/chapter-485.html
http://www.mangareader.net/105-3134-8/dragon-ball/chapter-485.html
http://www.mangareader.net/105-3134-9/dragon-ball/chapter-485.html

The timeframe between the events dosen't seem to be much more than a few seconds. The shot that he recieved wouldn't immediately kill a normal human either, unless hitting a vital organ. The mountain feat on the other hand is obviously not a serious event like Satan being shot was, plus Piccolo even noted that Cell supressed his effort down to such a level that it wouldn't kill Satan.
Using the anime is obviously flawed for Satan's feats, as such ones as the gunman being KO'd or Mark pulling a truck and punching through a part of it blatantly contradict what we're shown on his capabilities in the manga. In short, Anime Satan~Peak Humans>>>>Manga Satan>Average Martial Artist.
No way in hell does that appear to be a few seconds, and this brings me back to an earlier point. All these characters are superhuman. Nobody in real life can take a clean punch to the face and then fall off a cliff 30 feet downwards and still get up so quickly. And with Cell it's irrelevant that he was holding back because Hercule still crashed into a mountain which would kill any human being immediately. Those "gag" moments are a part of their strength and makes them superior to real life fighters especially guys like Bob Sapp who gave up the moment he took a couple of clean hits to the face.
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* Ketchup Revenge
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Captain Cadaver
Jun 2 2013, 12:52 AM
KetchupRevenge
 
Some people have suggested that you need a PL of at least 1000 to have an aura, which Dende has after his unlock, but Roshi is seen with one in early Dragon Ball during the foot race.
Flying =/= Running
True, but it's still ki that has something to do with enhancing movement.

I guess it doesn't really matter considering that the only auras that can be physically seen are Super Saiyan ones. Evidence to this is characters who can't sense ki making comments about auras around Super Saiyans, and never making comments about auras around other characters. Also I believe that it was mentioned by Toriyama that ki can't be seen, and all visual depictions are simply representations.
I don't have a source, and I could be wrong.

Also to input my two cents into the current topic, people almost always seem to forget that Dragon Ball is first and foremost, a comedy adventure manga, in which the story is supplemented by fighting. It is not a fighting manga like Baki the Grappler would be, or something along those lines.
Because of this, Mr. Satan's survival from Cell's whack is not supposed to be taken literally as a feat of endurance, and neither is something like Goku surviving the bullet from Bulma's pistol. Another example is Vegeta's head growing five sizes when he is screaming at Goku for making a deal involving Bulma's "affections" and Elder Kai.
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POOHEAD189
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Dende is kind of a hard thing to calculate. He could fly alright, which would be a very hard feat for someone under a powerlevel of 50, I would estimate. I mean, he was young and fragile, but the average Namek was super human. Normal villagers were probably 2-300 powerlevel. Maybe some were 800 or more. I know the younger warrior Nameks were 3,000. My point is, even a healer would be stronger than a normal human because of the Namekian biology. I'd say with potential unlock, Dende was saiyan saga level Chaitzu. Which makes him 610 if memory serves.
Edited by POOHEAD189, Jun 2 2013, 01:55 AM.
Tha gaol agam ort. <3
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SSJ
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Didn't Videl have a clear aura? Does having an aura really determine that you have a high powerlevel?
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Captain Cadaver
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bardock1990
Jun 2 2013, 01:44 AM
No way in hell does that appear to be a few seconds, and this brings me back to an earlier point. All these characters are superhuman. Nobody in real life can take a clean punch to the face and then fall off a cliff 30 feet downwards and still get up so quickly. And with Cell it's irrelevant that he was holding back because Hercule still crashed into a mountain which would kill any human being immediately. Those "gag" moments are a part of their strength and makes them superior to real life fighters especially guys like Bob Sapp who gave up the moment he took a couple of clean hits to the face.
It didn't seem to take minutes, and it's not as if the gunman's fall seemed to be a steep one. He slid down the cliff after recieving the kick, it wasn't as if he was just kicked straight off it. Feats being gag feats do matter as such are proven by the bullet event to be complete outliers. Outliers =/= Viable evidence.

SuperSaiyan3
 
Didn't Videl have a clear aura? Does having an aura really determine that you have a high powerlevel?
Nope. Even when flying at full speed when talking to Gohan and Kibito, she didn't present anything of the sort.
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POOHEAD189
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SuperSaiyan3
Jun 2 2013, 01:55 AM
Didn't Videl have a clear aura? Does having an aura really determine that you have a high powerlevel?
No, I think it just depends on the person for the standard power up aura.
Tha gaol agam ort. <3
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SSJ
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@CC- Ah I guess I was just remembering wrong.

@POOHEAD189- Yeah I'd agree with that. I think anyone can have an aura if they fully understand ki. I guess Dende was trained about ki when he was young.
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Kblo247
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The first people we see with auras in term of low pls were Gohan and Krillin around 1500 when fleeing Dadoria. Its safe to say he was there because no one ever were shown with auras below that level. If low pls could have them, Videl would have.

Plus I see no reason his pl wouldn't continue to grow if Gohan and Krillins did.
Edited by Kblo247, Jun 2 2013, 02:27 AM.
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SSJ
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What if an aura is just due to ki control, not power? Videl was very new at using ki so maybe she couldn't produce an aura.
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