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Gohan: Super Saiyan 2 VS Majin Buu; Why didn't he use it?
Topic Started: May 29 2013, 09:52 PM (8,840 Views)
Hurry My Curry
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Well that complicates things even more. Why not just say he was a SSjin 2?
Miles for mod
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SSJ
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Because he doesn't have the SSJ 2 traits lol. SSJ 2 was made to have distinctive lightning which separated it from SSJ 1. Also the hairstyle changes by the number of bangs. Following these two rules, Gohan matches up to his SSJ self.
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+ miguelnuva
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Gohan was mad for Videl and then when Kibito tells him to go SSJ he gets mad because he thinks he is going to get kicked out of school. Gohan here is a F*ck it mode.

Vs Dabura he was trying to impress Goku. Gohan didn't take Dabura as serious as he should.

Vs Buu he was scared and wanted to run.
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* Ketchup Revenge
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Hurry My Curry
May 29 2013, 10:31 PM
Now why wouldn't he be using SSjin 2? Obviously, he was using SSjin 2 against Majin Boo.
He wasn't.
The distinct differences in the manga between SSj levels is aura characteristics, not hair. The anime relies soley on the vague hair changes, which is the whole reason for the SSj vs SSj2 debates that happen constantly.

Spoiler: click to toggle


Gohan clearly had SSj aura during his scuffle with Boo, not SSj2.

As for the subject, previously Goku had told Gohan to get mad "like (you) did against Cell". Gohan for some reason said that he couldn't fight like that again. The possible reason being that he might have blamed himself for Goku's death during the Cell Games.

Unless Gohan needs some level of rage to turn SSj2, than it makes sense why we only see him transform a handful of times.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, May 30 2013, 05:03 AM.
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SuperSaiyan3
May 30 2013, 02:52 AM
This is why I think the Budokai was a retcon. Gohan flat out states here that he can't turn into a SSJ 2, but he could an hour ago.

That aside, he still thought he could accomplish something before Buu hatched as well.


There is nothing conflicting with what Gohan says there, it remains perfectly consistent with what has been laid out so far. The pressing matter being his current lack of power as a SSJ2 - Vegeta is very vocal about this at the Budokai and while Gohan battles Dabura:

Chapter: 444 (DBZ 250), P7.1-4
Vegeta: “…Hmph…That bastard, he was far, far better when he killed Cell. It’s because he slacked off in his training during peacetime…”


Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
Goku: “Magic, huh? [Dabra]’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”
Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…”


Thereafter, Goku advises Gohan to get angry so he could wield that same level of power he had at the Cell Games:

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…


Gohan is never expressed to have lost the ability to transform, only the power the form once contained. The entry in the Daizenshuu reinforces how he was incapable of gaining power from his anger, despite his great effort to do so:

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KetchupRevenge
May 30 2013, 04:56 AM

The distinct differences in the manga between SSj levels is aura characteristics, not hair. The anime relies soley on the vague hair changes, which is the whole reason for the SSj vs SSj2 debates that happen constantly.


No, that is purely speculative.

Official sources such as the Daizenshuu have even expressed otherwise.
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Raiken
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Super Gohan
May 30 2013, 05:40 AM
SuperSaiyan3
May 30 2013, 02:52 AM
This is why I think the Budokai was a retcon. Gohan flat out states here that he can't turn into a SSJ 2, but he could an hour ago.

That aside, he still thought he could accomplish something before Buu hatched as well.


There is nothing conflicting with what Gohan says there, it remains perfectly consistent with what has been laid out so far. The pressing matter being his current lack of power as a SSJ2 - Vegeta is very vocal about this at the Budokai and while Gohan battles Dabura:

Chapter: 444 (DBZ 250), P7.1-4
Vegeta: “…Hmph…That bastard, he was far, far better when he killed Cell. It’s because he slacked off in his training during peacetime…”


Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
Goku: “Magic, huh? [Dabra]’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”
Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…”


Thereafter, Goku advises Gohan to get angry so he could wield that same level of power he had at the Cell Games:

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…


Gohan is never expressed to have lost the ability to transform, only the power the form once contained. The entry in the Daizenshuu reinforces how he was incapable of gaining power from his anger, despite his great effort to do so:

Posted Image

KetchupRevenge
May 30 2013, 04:56 AM

The distinct differences in the manga between SSj levels is aura characteristics, not hair. The anime relies soley on the vague hair changes, which is the whole reason for the SSj vs SSj2 debates that happen constantly.


No, that is purely speculative.

Official sources such as the Daizenshuu have even expressed otherwise.

It's best not to take everything from those databooks to heart. The Manga it self is the best source for solid evidence.

I agree with you that he should have been able to go SSJ2, like he did at the Tournament.
And the Rage triggering the full extent of his Hidden Power, was what Goku was on about.
"Goku thought" that if Gohan could use SSJ2 using his true hidden power: That SSJ2 Teen Gohan > SSJ2 Goku.
But for some reason, Gohan never used SSJ2 or his Rage Trigged Hidden Power.

And that guy is right, SSJ/MSSJ and SSJ2 are distinguishable by Aura primarily. It's like that for almost the entirety of the Manga.

It appears that the most likely explanation is:
Retcon, and he wanted SSJ2 Goku VS SSJ2 Majin Vegeta and SSJ2 Majin Vegeta VS Majin Buu, to be more special.

It's hard to think of a logical explanation.
Although, now I'm thinking about it quite a lot, there may be an explanation that's quite likely, I'll explain:

I personally think the SSJ2 form in itself, is a combination of SSJ + The users Hidden Power.
I believe each person has a level of Hidden Power. Some higher than others.
If you use the Super Saiyan form as a base for pushing into your Hidden Power. And do it successfully. You achieve SSJ2.
Hence why Gohan was the first to go SSJ2 perhaps, he always had prominent Hidden Powers.
Possibly due to it's sheer scale, that Hidden Power occasionally pushed to the surface "Raditz, Freeza".
While most peoples remain for the most part, dormant.

Gohan at the Tourament only drew on a normal level of his Hidden Power for going SSJ2, rather than the level like against Cell.
And because Babidi's Men took Gohan's Ki in an SSJ2 state. It also took energy that made up his Hidden Powers "unknown how much, but a lot of it likely."
And when Kabito attempted to restore his Ki, he started that it seemed limitless.
Spoiler: click to toggle

Perhaps he didn't restore it fully, and because of that, it hampered his ability to draw on his Hidden Power in general to go SSJ2, never mind it's full extent.
He simply couldn't access it because it wasn't there to use. His Hidden Power had not been fully restored yet.

And that's why: Gohan couldn't use SSJ2 in general, never mind draw upon his Full Power SSJ2.
Edited by Raiken, May 30 2013, 09:56 AM.
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Raiken
May 30 2013, 09:23 AM

It's best not to take everything from those databooks to heart. The Manga it self is the best source for solid evidence.

I agree with you that he should have been able to go SSJ2, like he did at the Tournament.
And the Rage triggering the full extent of his Hidden Power, was what Goku was on about.
"Goku thought" that if Gohan could use SSJ2 using his true hidden power: That SSJ2 Teen Gohan > SSJ2 Goku.
But for some reason, Gohan never used SSJ2 or his Rage Trigged Hidden Power.

And that guy is right, SSJ/MSSJ and SSJ2 are distinguishable by Aura primarily. It's like that for almost the entirety of the Manga.

It appears that the most likely explanation is:
Retcon, and he wanted SSJ2 Goku VS SSJ2 Majin Vegeta and SSJ2 Majin Vegeta VS Majin Buu, to be more special.

It's hard to think of a logical explanation.
Although, now I'm thinking about it quite a lot, there may be an explanation that's quite likely, I'll explain:

I personally think the SSJ2 form in itself, is a combination of SSJ + The users Hidden Power.
I believe each person has a level of Hidden Power. Some higher than others.
If you use the Super Saiyan form as a base for pushing into your Hidden Power. And do it successfully. You achieve SSJ2.
Hence why Gohan was the first to go SSJ2 perhaps, he always had prominent Hidden Powers.
Possibly due to it's sheer scale, that Hidden Power occasionally pushed to the surface "Raditz, Freeza".
While most peoples remain for the most part, dormant.

Gohan at the Tourament only drew on a normal level of his Hidden Power for going SSJ2, rather than the level like against Cell.
And because Babidi's Men took Gohan's Ki in an SSJ2 state. It also took energy that made up his Hidden Powers "unknown how much, but a lot of it likely."
And when Kabito attempted to restore his Ki, he started that it seemed limitless.
Spoiler: click to toggle

Perhaps he didn't restore it fully, and because of that, it hampered his ability to draw on his Hidden Power in general to go SSJ2, never mind it's full extent.
He simply couldn't access it because it wasn't there to use. His Hidden Power had not been fully restored yet.

And that's why: Gohan couldn't use SSJ2 in general, never mind draw upon his Full Power SSJ2.


Evidence from the manga is merely supplemented in those books in a more open form, acting as a clarifier for vague details that would already be established in the work itself.

Unlike most of what has been presented so far it actually is concrete evidence and not something entirely subjective. The fact that solid manga evidence in this thread has been sorely lacking only shows that it is no longer of much value since frankly there isn’t any that you’ll find as a backbone; instead you’ve turned to fan-speculation, further promoting your own confusion.

Even if Kibito hadn’t restored Gohan’s energy completely, he still consumed a senzu bean before confronting Buu.

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DSB
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Look , the Artwork from the Author is Final .

U can say as many times as u want that Gohan was an SSj2 / Should have been an SSj2 by bringing "Evidences"

But it doesnt work

AT has always given Lightning for SSj2 . If he didnt use it for gohan , it must be for a reason .

It means Gohan was an SSj
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DSB
May 30 2013, 03:57 PM
Look , the Artwork from the Author is Final .

U can say as many times as u want that Gohan was an SSj2 / Should have been an SSj2 by bringing "Evidences"

But it doesnt work

AT has always given Lightning for SSj2 . If he didnt use it for gohan , it must be for a reason .

It means Gohan was an SSj
Even if that's true(which is the most possible scenario :lol: )when Vegito transforms to a Ssj does this mean he is a ssj2 or something?it seems like that even AT have made their mistakes don't you think?
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Vegeta8558
May 30 2013, 04:27 PM
DSB
May 30 2013, 03:57 PM
Look , the Artwork from the Author is Final .

U can say as many times as u want that Gohan was an SSj2 / Should have been an SSj2 by bringing "Evidences"

But it doesnt work

AT has always given Lightning for SSj2 . If he didnt use it for gohan , it must be for a reason .

It means Gohan was an SSj
Even if that's true(which is the most possible scenario :lol: )when Vegito transforms to a Ssj does this mean he is a ssj2 or something?it seems like that even AT have made their mistakes don't you think?
There are tons of instances where its shown that when a higher power powers up , some kind of lightning surrounds them . Eg : Nappa , Freeza

Plus , AT confirmed that Vegito was an SSj in an interview
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DSB
May 30 2013, 04:31 PM
Vegeta8558
May 30 2013, 04:27 PM
DSB
May 30 2013, 03:57 PM
Look , the Artwork from the Author is Final .

U can say as many times as u want that Gohan was an SSj2 / Should have been an SSj2 by bringing "Evidences"

But it doesnt work

AT has always given Lightning for SSj2 . If he didnt use it for gohan , it must be for a reason .

It means Gohan was an SSj
Even if that's true(which is the most possible scenario :lol: )when Vegito transforms to a Ssj does this mean he is a ssj2 or something?it seems like that even AT have made their mistakes don't you think?
There are tons of instances where its shown that when a higher power powers up , some kind of lightning surrounds them . Eg : Nappa , Freeza

Plus , AT confirmed that Vegito was an SSj in an interview
Perhaps but Vegitos aura was similar to that of a ssj2,I'm not denying that he is a Ssj which I know but I'm just saying that there are problems at AT sometimes
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Vegeta8558
May 30 2013, 04:34 PM
DSB
May 30 2013, 04:31 PM
Vegeta8558
May 30 2013, 04:27 PM
DSB
May 30 2013, 03:57 PM
Look , the Artwork from the Author is Final .

U can say as many times as u want that Gohan was an SSj2 / Should have been an SSj2 by bringing "Evidences"

But it doesnt work

AT has always given Lightning for SSj2 . If he didnt use it for gohan , it must be for a reason .

It means Gohan was an SSj
Even if that's true(which is the most possible scenario :lol: )when Vegito transforms to a Ssj does this mean he is a ssj2 or something?it seems like that even AT have made their mistakes don't you think?
There are tons of instances where its shown that when a higher power powers up , some kind of lightning surrounds them . Eg : Nappa , Freeza

Plus , AT confirmed that Vegito was an SSj in an interview
Perhaps but Vegitos aura was similar to that of a ssj2,I'm not denying that he is a Ssj which I know but I'm just saying that there are problems at AT sometimes
U am sorry to say that u are not right in this case . [No hard feelings , plz]

AT made the Auras perfect
Here u go :

Vegito's aura when transforming


SSj Vegito's Normal Aura


An SSj2's Aura


Nappa Powering up


So u see , AT's Aura's are perfect
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DSB
May 30 2013, 04:47 PM
Vegeta8558
May 30 2013, 04:34 PM
DSB
May 30 2013, 04:31 PM
Vegeta8558
May 30 2013, 04:27 PM
DSB
May 30 2013, 03:57 PM
Look , the Artwork from the Author is Final .

U can say as many times as u want that Gohan was an SSj2 / Should have been an SSj2 by bringing "Evidences"

But it doesnt work

AT has always given Lightning for SSj2 . If he didnt use it for gohan , it must be for a reason .

It means Gohan was an SSj
Even if that's true(which is the most possible scenario :lol: )when Vegito transforms to a Ssj does this mean he is a ssj2 or something?it seems like that even AT have made their mistakes don't you think?
There are tons of instances where its shown that when a higher power powers up , some kind of lightning surrounds them . Eg : Nappa , Freeza

Plus , AT confirmed that Vegito was an SSj in an interview
Perhaps but Vegitos aura was similar to that of a ssj2,I'm not denying that he is a Ssj which I know but I'm just saying that there are problems at AT sometimes
U am sorry to say that u are not right in this case . [No hard feelings , plz]

AT made the Auras perfect
Here u go :

Vegito's aura when transforming


SSj Vegito's Normal Aura


An SSj2's Aura


Nappa Powering up


So u see , AT's Aura's are perfect
Of course I have not hard feelings dude were debating here not fighting :lol: just wondering about Vegito and the movies mostly Vegeta did not have a ssj2 lighting against Janemba and Hirudegran and I was wondering why that's all,
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DSB
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The Showstopper

Movies are not canon

So , i dont care about Toei's artwork much

Well , about the Topic ...

i will say this again

When AT didnt Draw gohan as an SSj2 , he was a normal SSj

Case closed
Edited by DSB, May 30 2013, 04:54 PM.
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DSB
May 30 2013, 04:53 PM
Movies are not canon

So , i dont care about Toei's artwork much
Then that's that thank you
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