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Why was Freeza still a Huge Opponent for Android Saga Tien ?
Topic Started: May 15 2013, 12:34 PM (3,001 Views)
lunar2 May 15 2013, 05:09 PM Post #31
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KetchupRevenge
May 15 2013, 04:10 PM
Kikoho uses something other than ki. There are several energy forces in the body, and ki is only one of them. For example, Toriyama stated that Genki was a different type of energy than ki.

Therefore I agree with Abyss. Tenshinhan was under 120 mil at the end of Z, but I'm going an extra step by stating that I'm a firm believer that he wasn't even close. Even if he reached 10 mil, I think that would be lucky. Humans don't increase anywhere near as much as Saiyans do, and they don't stay in their prime as long (hence Vegeta's comment about Saiyan's slowed aging at the end of Z). This is only one of a few things to consider.
actually, Toriyama stated that genki was part of ki.

ki is made up of 3 parts.

npberryhill
 
Genki refers to life force; how physically fit and healthy you are. You can produce more ki when you're healthy and rested than when you are weak or ill.

Yuki is a reference to courage or willpower. Even if you're injured or weakened, you can still win if you're fighting for what you believe in. This is also the aspect of ki that is positive or negative; an evil person has an extremely negative yuki when he feels cruel; a good person has an extremely positive yuki when he feels brave.

Shoki refers to your mind. If your mind is clear and you remain focused, you will be a more effective fighter than if you are confused or distracted.


together, these 3 things make up a person's ki. different people obviously have different measures of each. yajirobe has a lot of genki, for example, because he is very strong, but very little yuki, because he is a coward.

frieza, on the other hand, has an almost pure yuki. even when his body was badly injured, he was able to fight at or near full power through sheer determination. we also see that he doesn't think clearly when he's fighting. he lacks the mental clarity to see when he is beaten, so his shoki is somewhat lacking.

*explanation of the three components of ki comes from the most recent chapter of the excellent fanfic "bringer of death" http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8162862/68/ . note that i am not using this fanfic as evidence of this explanation of genki, i simply feel that they did an excellent job of explaining the parts of ki. the terms are, iirc, originally defined in the S.E.G.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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SuperSaiyan1993 May 15 2013, 08:09 PM Post #32
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Super Saiyan among Super Saiyans

 Tien's Neo Tri Beam was a desperate, desperate last resort measure that possibly meant permanent lights out from the sheer strain of the attack.

Tien knew the SSJs and Piccolo were stronger so he didn't see the point of using it against the Androids. Moreover, in that case, the Androids had infinite stamina, so post attack, they would just finish him off.

Frieza has extremely good resiliency. If he can survive the Spirit Bomb, SSJ Goku's Ki Blast, and Namek's Explosion, I think he can survive Tien's attack
We Super Saiyans are in a league of our own.
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p123 May 15 2013, 08:10 PM Post #33
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If it can cause Semi Cell pain, it can't obliterate Freeza for sure.
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+ miguelnuva May 15 2013, 08:17 PM Post #34
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 Wind will not kill wind will push you or carry you into something that will Kill.

Tien's Neo Tri-Beam ultimately is more akin to a brick wall. It was a massive force or push that was keeping Cell down, other then that Cell was tanking the attack.

Tien at that point could probably kill Frieza with the attack due to force or if the Neo-Tri beam does still have an explosive force but 17 and 18 and up he probably couldn't kill.
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Gogeta power placement
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Aman741 May 15 2013, 09:23 PM Post #35
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The Prince of All Saiyans/Debaters.

 Yeah, he pushed the arena at the budokai to the bottom of the pit right? Hehehe, I remember Goku saying, "Heh, I was lucky to doge his attack."

Tien just wanted to push Goku out of the ring innit?

He also wanted to push Cell out! That makes perfect sense.
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"Here comes the Saiyan Prince."
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p123 May 15 2013, 10:52 PM Post #36
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Shin Kikoho should be able to kill 16 let alone 17,18.
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+ Kyouks May 16 2013, 12:25 AM Post #37
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 He 'somewhat' feared Freeza because Freeza was still stronger than him. Having a really strong attack is different from possessing that power yourself. Perfect Cell's Kamehameha was stronger than Kid Gohan, but Cell was frightened of him. Vegeta's Final Flash was stronger than Cell, but Vegeta was sweating bullets when he realized how disadvantaged he was.

And for good measure, the out-of-universe explanation would be that the Shin Kikoho was an asspull (Tenshinhan stating that there was nothing he could do against Imperfect Cell was BS, for example, as he had the Kikoho; it's most likely a result of Toriyama not thinking of the Shin Kikoho until right before he drew it).
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p123 May 16 2013, 12:40 AM Post #38
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Exactly. This is AT's style.
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NavonWise May 16 2013, 01:01 AM Post #39
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Realist Rapper Alive

 It's possible that it could kill Frieza, I mean Cell did brush it off after Tien stopped, but those moments when he did it to Cell, you can even see saliva coming out Cell's mouth, it kind of does look like he was in small pain. Cell was even disgusted at the fact that Tien of all people stopped him so I guess that says something had he done it to Frieza. And...the fact that Tien could have died, so you know Tien gave EVERYTHING he had on that attack.
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MI YOUTUBE CHANNEL
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DSB May 16 2013, 04:05 AM Post #40
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The Showstopper

 So , we can agree that Shin Kihoho will obliterate freeza in one hit ?
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Alex D. Boss May 16 2013, 01:09 PM Post #41
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 Why not? It helds someone as Cell who just tanked 16 1 episode ago , who is superior to Kamiccolo/17 , who is superior to SSJ's who are superior to Frieza.

As KS said , Tien not thinking about holding Imp.Cell off was BS.
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DSB May 16 2013, 01:21 PM Post #42
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The Showstopper

 So , Clearin's "Kiai cant kill" claim doesnt work , does it ?
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Zenet May 16 2013, 01:37 PM Post #43
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Tien's Tri Beam was on par with Semi Perfect Cell in terms of power. It was enough to physically harm him but not enough to take him out or keep him down for long.

Frizea was a huge opponent because Frizea is just stronger than him in general.
Edited by Zenet, May 16 2013, 01:40 PM.
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DSB May 16 2013, 01:43 PM Post #44
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The Showstopper

 But he did develop an attack which can even beat enemies far stronger than him . Whats the fear ?
He couldnt surpass him in power , but he found out another way to one shot him
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+ Kyouks May 16 2013, 10:59 PM Post #45
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DSB
May 16 2013, 01:43 PM
But he did develop an attack which can even beat enemies far stronger than him . Whats the fear ?
He couldnt surpass him in power , but he found out another way to one shot him

Kyouka Suigetsu
May 16 2013, 12:25 AM
Having a really strong attack is different from possessing that power yourself. Perfect Cell's Kamehameha was stronger than Kid Gohan, but Cell was frightened of him. Vegeta's Final Flash was stronger than Cell, but Vegeta was sweating bullets when he realized how disadvantaged he was.
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