| We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum. If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away. Click here to Register! If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk If you're already a member please log in to your account: |
| Was SSj4 Vegeta = SSj4 Goku [@Omega] | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: May 15 2013, 08:55 AM (2,195 Views) | |
| Saberoph | May 16 2013, 02:35 AM Post #31 |
![]()
|
That's why I made sure to say Logical, because a Logical explanation can be used to figure out why things happened. |
|
Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.
| |
![]() |
|
| + Pyrus | May 16 2013, 02:41 AM Post #32 |
![]() ![]()
|
Oh, totally agreed! So go ahead and try disproving the explanations people have come up with without just passing them off as, "Possible, but I'd rather think of it as a plothole." If it can logically be explained, it isn't a plothole.
Vegeta had been fighting Super Yi Xing Long for nearly three episodes before he encountered Si Xing Long, who had been powered up by Yi's minus energy. You can't compare Vegeta and Goku by using Si Xing Long because there were different factors affecting their fights. It'd be like if Goku fought Kid Boo and the two were roughly even, then Vegeta, after getting beat up by somebody else, fought Kid Boo, who had absorbed someone's power, and you tried comparing the two Saiyans. It's flawed because a weaker Vegeta is fighting a stronger Kid Boo than a fresh Goku did. Edited by Pyrus, May 16 2013, 02:44 AM.
|
|
Spoiler: click to toggle
| |
![]() |
|
| bardock1990 | May 16 2013, 02:45 AM Post #33 |
![]()
|
The fact that Vegeta was miles and miles ahead of Goku before Goku got special training from a God in the after life should be very telling. Vegeta never got training in the other world from Gods(where he didn't age) that boosted his power beyond imagination. You mention the Buu saga but it was after Goku got 7 years of hard training in other world from the Kais which is how he went to SSJ3. Vegeta never got any special treatment like this, only the time chamber which Goku also used. It's impressive enough that only he was keeping up with Goku on his own. Naturally, Vegeta's potential is better than Goku's. |
![]() |
|
| + Pyrus | May 16 2013, 02:58 AM Post #34 |
![]() ![]()
|
Vegeta spent nearly 30 years of his life working for Freeza, fighting on the front lines. He was battling, not training. Then he gained use of the gravity chamber, which was a huge advantage, but he didn't know how to properly take care of his body, so his training results suffered because of it. Once he learned how to do all of this in unity - probably after the Boo arc - that's when his training would really pay off most likely. On the other hand, Goku was trained by Master Roshi, Korin, Mr. Popo, Kami, and Kaio, all of whom taught him how to take care of himself and train correctly. That's where he got his training "genius" from. After Cell, he was able to train in the afterlife with the dead warriors and other Kais. Vegeta was on his own when it came to training. He was self-taught. Goku had at least five teachers that helped him become the training genius we know him as. Yet throughout their entire tenure of training, Vegeta was never leagues behind (and by leagues, I mean multifold). I'm skipping Namek because Vegeta hadn't started training at that point yet, but afterward when he began living on Earth, Goku likely didn't end up being more than 2-2.5x stronger than him upon returning from Yardrat, and Vegeta had a big gap to make up after the last zenkai Goku received from Ginyu, plus the minor training he did whilst in space. Skip ahead to the android battle and despite having two training partners, Goku ended up slightly behind Vegeta when all was said and done. After the RoSaT trips, Vegeta ended up being more than half of Goku's power, although Goku was able to accomplish that with only one trip as opposed to Vegeta's two, but still. Goku had a powerful Gohan to train with then. In Otherworld, even with achieving two new transformations and having the Kai palette available to train with, Goku still didn't end up being more than perhaps 50% stronger than Vegeta at most, when all Vegeta had was the gravity chamber again and maybe some increased caution when pushing his body to the limit. So overall, despite all of Goku's special training, he was never completely out of reach by Vegeta, who had no special training partners, teachers, and wasn't as smart about his practices. |
|
Spoiler: click to toggle
| |
![]() |
|
| + miguelnuva | May 16 2013, 03:11 AM Post #35 |
![]() ![]()
|
|
![]() Gogeta power placement | |
![]() |
|
| + Pyrus | May 16 2013, 04:24 AM Post #36 |
![]() ![]()
|
Super Yi Xing Long: "It's no use, Goku. Once a Dragon Ball is absorbed into my body, the power of the minus energy that flows within me pollutes it again. He has been reborn with his evil power at full throttle." "It appears that my minus power has completely taken his soft side from him this time. He is indeed an Evil Dragon!" "Surely, you took on my minus power!" Even if you take that to mean Si's nature and not his actual power level, take into consideration the following: It's specifically pointed out by Goku after Vegeta is hit down the first time that Si Xing Long's speed is even greater than both of theirs, and if you watch the battle, that's what's actually highlighted, not his strength. He manages to out-speed Vegeta at each turn, and that's how he's able to topple him, despite his attacks just being for show. Vegeta himself had endured ample punishment at that point. Aside from the strain of Super Saiyan 4 and being beat around for 99% of Episode 61 by Super Yi Xing Long, Trunks points out (after Goku and Vegeta fail to fuse after their third attempt) that undergoing Fusion takes a good chunk of Ki as well (that's actually the first time anything is noted of Goku's power being low, by the way). So if you're one of those that claims Goku was no longer all that powerful after fighting for so long before Vegeta showed up, then I can use the same logic to say Vegeta had been weakened by the time he fought Si Xing Long. I just rewatched the fight between Goku and Si. It's a lot shorter than I thought it was, but Goku was at a disadvantage the entire time. He stated he was slower than Si but had the edge in power, and I guess nothing from their fight really contradicted that testament. After going over all of this, I can see why you guys would say Goku lost most or all of his 10-fold power-up. After he got the power-up he fought and owned Yi Xing Long for a while, even while blind. Then he fused with Vegeta which, as I pointed out above, takes a chunk of your Ki to do, and then he got beat around with Vegeta by Super Yi Xing Long for the majority or Episode 61, all while having the strain of Super Saiyan 4 as well, whatever that level of strain may be. By the time he tried fusing with Vegeta again, his power was too low to do it. A problem arises, though. After Yi Xing Long returned to normal from Gogeta's beating, Goku claimed he could take him down all on his own, and we know Yi Xing Long is stronger than Si Xing Long, and we witnessed Goku and Vegeta fusing so they would have to be equal in power to do that. SSjin 4 Goku (post-Fusion) = SSjin 4 Vegeta (post-Fusion) > Yi Xing Long > Si Xing Long > Goku > Vegeta? What? Edited by Pyrus, May 16 2013, 04:30 AM.
|
|
Spoiler: click to toggle
| |
![]() |
|
|
|
May 16 2013, 05:08 AM Post #37 |
![]()
The Showstopper
![]()
|
Well , can it be said that SSJ4 Vegeta's power was draining more than Goku's , beocz his SSJ4 was unlocked artificially ? |
![]() There's More
| |
![]() |
|
|
|
May 17 2013, 05:07 PM Post #38 |
![]()
|
Something else to add for Vegeta gaining power from the Bruits. Back when it was Goku vs. Baby, Bulma revived Baby Gorilla to FP and he said he was stronger than ever before. She had the same files later on during the Shadow Dragons, so that right there goes to show that the Bruits gives power, just like it did to Vegeta to boost him like it did. |
![]() |
|
| + Majin Vegeta | May 17 2013, 05:22 PM Post #39 |
![]()
The resident GT fan!
![]()
|
That is definently true Prof!you said it again!he might get some power boost but I think that Goku ssj4 at his best still beats ssj4 Vegeta Goku was maxed out by their previous fight taken a lot of damage and using dragon fist was way to maxed out,even with Vegetas boost I think that Goku will still have the edge |
![]() "Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta | |
![]() |
|
| + Majin Vegeta | May 17 2013, 05:22 PM Post #40 |
![]()
The resident GT fan!
![]()
|
Darn it i double post I wanted an edit only! Edited by Majin Vegeta, May 17 2013, 05:23 PM.
|
![]() "Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta | |
![]() |
|
| dragonballu | May 23 2013, 12:45 AM Post #41 |
![]()
|
Goku had been fighting so he wasnt at 100% power, not to mention that he reached that level on his own. Vegeta fresh was able to fuse without mentioning any power ups or power downs, so its safe to assume he was a bit weaker than full strength SSJ 4 Goku but not by much I dont know how you would even begin to assume Vegeta's potential was more though when he only got past the ape stage cause of Bulma, Kakorot even poked fun that he couldnt get back to that state on his own. On the other hand Goku can go from kid form straight to SSJ 4 without having to waste time as an ape. Edited by dragonballu, May 23 2013, 12:47 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| + Pyrus | May 23 2013, 01:35 AM Post #42 |
![]() ![]()
|
That's obviously because Goku had a tail. It had nothing to do with potential.^ |
|
Spoiler: click to toggle
| |
![]() |
|
| 0 users reading this topic | |
| « Previous Topic · Dragon Ball GT/Movies · Next Topic » |
| Track Topic · E-mail Topic |
4:49 PM Jul 13
|
Theme Designed by McKee91
Powered by ZetaBoards Premium · Privacy Policy






















4:49 PM Jul 13