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Goten and Trunks Ssj level?
Topic Started: Apr 28 2013, 12:44 PM (2,423 Views)
Vertical Apr 29 2013, 05:23 AM Post #31
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Saberoph
Apr 29 2013, 05:13 AM
In an earlier Post you said Cell Games Kakarrot.

If Gohan gained most of his power back from your pov, then Goten should be higher than that.
I stated my placements but any gains you believe you've interpreted from that is your own opinion.

Why exactly do you think that Goten (not sure which one) should be above Cell Games Goku based on Gohan's placement at roughly that level? Also, could you please clarify which Goten you're referring to each time you refer to him (Pre-Tournament, Pre-RoSaT, Post-RoSaT). That would help me a lot in understanding your point of view.
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Saberoph Apr 29 2013, 05:31 AM Post #32
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 Ok, you said Post Rosat Goten should be around Cell Games Kakarrot, I'm disagreeing with that. I'm saying Post Budokai Training Goten should be on that level, mainly due to you saying Gohan regained as much power as you're saying. Yes, Gohan Trained on his own too, but all the times we saw Goten and Gohan Training for the Budokai, they're dead even in their sessions...


I thought the conversation and what I referenced would answer that, but ok, I'm cool with that.
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Doctor Know Apr 29 2013, 05:59 AM Post #33
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 Why do you think Goten would be at Cell Games Goku level? Seems way too much power for a runt with no prior training to have. Technically would make Trunks stronger than Cell Games Goku also, but Vegeta had no idea his son's power was and they train everyday. Goten and Trunks have to be lower.


Adult Gohan is a terrible frame of reference compared to Cell Games Z fighters. His performance against Dabura proves he'd can't keep up with Cell. The Cell Jr's each = Perfect Cell. Adult SSJ2 Gohan struggled to keep up with Dabura who = Perfect Cell and his Cell Jrs. From one-shotting people at Cell's level to struggling to land a blow on Dabura. How far Gohan fell in 7 years.

Also think about what Dabura said about his power level and fighting people who have 3000 kiri (Goku SSJ). It wouldn't be enough to defeat him. I believe the anime said Dabura is somewhere above 4000 kiri. Even going strictly by the manga Dabura was more than willingly to fight the 3 saiyans and the Supreme Kai with his knowledge of their power levels. We know Goku is the strongest at that point and Vegeta said he could end Dabura easily. Presumably with SSJ2. So that gives us an idea of where Dabura and the others stand. Gohan is nowhere close to 3000 kiri(His father Goku) as a SSJ, while we know Dabura is above 3000. If Dabura is at 4000+ kiri (anime stated), Gohan had to be close to that as a SSJ2 in order to keep up with Dabura. Which means his SSJ has to be around 1800-2100 kiri. Which (purely speculative) would put Trunks and Goten around this area as well.
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Saberoph Apr 29 2013, 06:16 AM Post #34
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 Gohan was drawn as an SS not an SS2, which means he wasn't an SS2. Unless you have a scan that has Gohan with ALL the SS2 characteristics.

Also, just because Goten and Trunks are young, doesn't mean they're SS will be so low. Also, Gohan's fighting instincts were seriously lacking, not just his power.

To think Gohan lost that much power is completely ridiculous.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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+ miguelnuva Apr 29 2013, 06:16 AM Post #35
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 Goten and Trunks are MSSJ or FPSSJ.

As for their power I have them about 3x weaker than Goku and Vegeta.

Gohan was trash fighting Dabura to Vegeta where as to Goten he was amazing and that was during their sparring pre budokai.

Also in the ROSAT I don't think Goten and Trunks made a massive power up as they are later shown not serious and as a result Gotenks considers the fight with Super Buu a game.


EVEN AFTER BUU KILLS BOTH HIS MOTHERS, Gotenks doesn't get sersious in till the end of his fusion, this is made even more clear in the anime.

I put the boys as nearing CG Goku meaning Vegeta and Trunks from the CG are fodder to the boys post ROSAT.

Pre ROSAT I have them a little over CG Vegeta.

Pre Budokai their a little under Future Trunks.
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Saberoph Apr 29 2013, 06:18 AM Post #36
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 That's excluding HUMAN NATURE, humans have shown to linger on to emotions later on when they're not showing it at THAT moment.

Even in DBZ it's shown to us.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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+ miguelnuva Apr 29 2013, 06:24 AM Post #37
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Saberoph
Apr 29 2013, 06:18 AM
That's excluding HUMAN NATURE, humans have shown to linger on to emotions later on when they're not showing it at THAT moment.

Even in DBZ it's shown to us.
Your not going to get over someone killing your mother as quick and Goten and Trunks at least acted. Their saiyan side clouded their judgement just like it did to Gohan at Cell.

I call it the unstable hybrid saiyan syndrome. I wanted to say Hybrid but then Gogeta does it in GT.
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Doctor Know Apr 29 2013, 06:28 AM Post #38
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Saberoph
Apr 29 2013, 06:16 AM

To think Gohan lost that much power is completely ridiculous.


7 years. Try saying that out loud and wrap you mind around it. Gohan didn't take a few months off, he took 3 years short of a decade off. He's garbage by all accounts.


miguelnuva
Apr 29 2013, 06:16 AM
Goten and Trunks are MSSJ or FPSSJ.


MSSJ/FPSSJ is really a conditioning form of SSJ. There is no strength increases like ASSJ, USSJ, SSJ2, or SSJ3. It doesn't grant any strength, speed or energy increases. Also Trunks and Goten having the form is really fan assigned title. Never confirmed, in the manga, anime, movies or games. It's just called SSJ after the Cell Games.
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Saberoph Apr 29 2013, 06:43 AM Post #39
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miguelnuva
Apr 29 2013, 06:24 AM
Saberoph
Apr 29 2013, 06:18 AM
That's excluding HUMAN NATURE, humans have shown to linger on to emotions later on when they're not showing it at THAT moment.

Even in DBZ it's shown to us.
Your not going to get over someone killing your mother as quick and Goten and Trunks at least acted. Their saiyan side clouded their judgement just like it did to Gohan at Cell.

I call it the unstable hybrid saiyan syndrome. I wanted to say Hybrid but then Gogeta does it in GT.
Oh yeah... Gotenks didn't get pissed at all when he came back to earth...

Only using these for Images, and not the bubbles.


Yeah, Gotenks did get cocky, he was sure he could win, but the fact is he was showing Emotion from Their Deaths, funny... you said he didn't. I guess Manga wins again.

@AllStarSuperman.
I have, but that still doesn't mean Gohan got That weak at all. I'm willing to accept Cell Games Kakarrot by the Budokai, but it still seems silly.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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DSB Apr 29 2013, 06:53 AM Post #40
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The Showstopper
Saberoph
Apr 29 2013, 06:43 AM
miguelnuva
Apr 29 2013, 06:24 AM
Saberoph
Apr 29 2013, 06:18 AM
That's excluding HUMAN NATURE, humans have shown to linger on to emotions later on when they're not showing it at THAT moment.

Even in DBZ it's shown to us.
Your not going to get over someone killing your mother as quick and Goten and Trunks at least acted. Their saiyan side clouded their judgement just like it did to Gohan at Cell.

I call it the unstable hybrid saiyan syndrome. I wanted to say Hybrid but then Gogeta does it in GT.
Oh yeah... Gotenks didn't get pissed at all when he came back to earth...

Only using these for Images, and not the bubbles.


Yeah, Gotenks did get cocky, he was sure he could win, but the fact is he was showing Emotion from Their Deaths, funny... you said he didn't. I guess Manga wins again.

@AllStarSuperman.
I have, but that still doesn't mean Gohan got That weak at all. I'm willing to accept Cell Games Kakarrot by the Budokai, but it still seems silly.
In The 1st one , he was cocky and boasting , not serious
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Saberoph Apr 29 2013, 06:56 AM Post #41
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 That still doesn't debunk the fact that he was serious when the fight started.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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DSB Apr 29 2013, 06:58 AM Post #42
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The Showstopper

 Short-Term Seriousness doesnt mean anything

He is a Goof and he will stay so , he cant change
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Saberoph Apr 29 2013, 07:00 AM Post #43
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 The point I was making was, miguelnuva said he wasn't serious at all... and I was proving that he was after finding out everyone is dead.

That's the point I was making.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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DSB Apr 29 2013, 07:12 AM Post #44
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The Showstopper

 Gotenks went into a short-term seriousness becoz Bulma died ... Thats it

It still wasnt good enough to get him stop goofing around
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Vertical Apr 29 2013, 08:14 AM Post #45
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Saberoph
Apr 29 2013, 05:31 AM
Ok, you said Post Rosat Goten should be around Cell Games Kakarrot, I'm disagreeing with that. I'm saying Post Budokai Training Goten should be on that level, mainly due to you saying Gohan regained as much power as you're saying. Yes, Gohan Trained on his own too, but all the times we saw Goten and Gohan Training for the Budokai, they're dead even in their sessions...


I thought the conversation and what I referenced would answer that, but ok, I'm cool with that.
The only time we saw them spar was early in the training, or an unclear time-frame; specifically SSJ Gohan vs SSJ Goten seems to fall right before a time-skip but is open to interpretation.

If [Pre-Tournament] Gohan was already (even if slightly) above [Pre-Tourrnament] Goten (which is undeniable, no matter how even you believe their sparring to be, considering 'amazing' comments and lack of successful hits), after training that benefits Gohan more, Goten is going to fall even further behind.
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