Goten and Trunks Ssj level?

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Goten and Trunks Ssj level?
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 28 2013, 12:44 PM (2,424 Views)
Saberoph	Apr 29 2013, 03:30 AM Post #16
Posts: 11,517 Group: Member Member #5,650 Joined: January 23, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	For me, it's like this... Pre-Rosat Goten and Trunks<=SS Teen Gohan. Post Roast Goten and Trunks=>Kakarrot and Vegeta. I have them just barely above the adults, but if it came down to a fight, they would lose due to their last of experience and fighting instincts. I know I'm going to be asked why, well the link below will explain everything, but please don't bump the thread... it's more then exceeded 3 pages... http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8719662&t=8410852
	Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.


Vertical	Apr 29 2013, 03:56 AM Post #17
Posts: 2,542 Group: Member Member #8,475 Joined: October 27, 2012	Saberoph Apr 29 2013, 03:30 AM For me, it's like this... Pre-Rosat Goten and Trunks<=SS Teen Gohan. Post Roast Goten and Trunks=>Kakarrot and Vegeta. I have them just barely above the adults, but if it came down to a fight, they would lose due to their last of experience and fighting instincts. I know I'm going to be asked why, well the link below will explain everything, but please don't bump the thread... it's more then exceeded 3 pages... http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8719662&t=8410852 In regard to this quote: I believe SSJ3 Gogeta is slightly beyond Buutenks. There is a nice post on these forums (http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8662668&t=8402385) that explains this view. I believe the fusion dance is fixed (due to Goku being able to predict the results), and receives no rival boost (whatever you consider a rival boost to be). These beliefs lead me to Goten and Trunks [Post-RoSaT] being roughly half the power of the adults (a little below Cell Games Goku). In regards to the topic: I thought the OP was asking for the specific form the kids use, as opposed to their power. To that I respond; They were SSJ. Everyone post-Cell Saga uses SSJ. FPSSJ = SSJ. The transformation is the same except that during the Cell Games Goku/Gohan remained in the form to reduce strain/stamina wear/wasted energy. If I'm mistaken on what the OP was asking for and the query was in fact regarding their power, to that I respond: Pre-RoSaT - Between Semi-Perfect Cell and ASSJ Vegeta Post-RoSaT - A little below Cell Games Goku
	DeviantART


Saberoph	Apr 29 2013, 04:03 AM Post #18
Posts: 11,517 Group: Member Member #5,650 Joined: January 23, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	Yeah, no disrespect but, that list he has isn't official... Curious... how much power do you see Gohan losing in the 7 years?
	Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.


Vertical	Apr 29 2013, 04:16 AM Post #19
Posts: 2,542 Group: Member Member #8,475 Joined: October 27, 2012	Saberoph Apr 29 2013, 04:03 AM Yeah, no disrespect but, that list he has isn't official... Curious... how much power do you see Gohan losing in the 7 years? Oh, I agree it isn't official... not a lot is when it comes to power levels but I do agree with the placements based upon the related quotes and interpretations of those quotes. As for Gohan's power loss, I have him losing a little over half his power before beginning retraining for the tournament. I believe he regained a large portion of that by the time the tournament started (due to muscle memory and additional solo-training), placing him approximately equal to Cell Games Goku.
	DeviantART


Saberoph	Apr 29 2013, 04:20 AM Post #20
Posts: 11,517 Group: Member Member #5,650 Joined: January 23, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	That would mean Goiten would be just barely under him by the Budokai... Gohan was Trained to never go easy on anyone, so he wouldn't go easy on Goten either. As a matter of fact, in the Manga both Sparring sessions we see, 1. Gohan is Forced to fly up, and 2. They're shown to be going all out. So, it's kind of unnecessary to have the kids Pre-Rosat that low.
	Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.


Doctor Know	Apr 29 2013, 04:29 AM Post #21
Posts: 478 Group: Member Member #5,351 Joined: October 23, 2010	^ I personally believe Gohan lost 45-50% of the power he had at the Cell Games. 7 years of not doing any martial arts or training caused him to slide badly down the power scale. If Adult Gohan was asked to fight Perfect Cell or SPC @ the level he was at the Budokai he would get squished like a bug. I think Adult Gohan is somewhere around ASSJ Vegeta and Trunks as a SSJ and with SSJ 2 = USSJ Trunks. You look at Goku and Vegeta @ Budokai and Babadi's Spaceship and it's clear the 7 years of training only allowed them to play catch-up to the level of strength Gohan HAD against Cell. Goku surpassing slightly but still being in range to be comparable by Piccolo from the way he saw Vegeta thrash Buu as Majin. You look at Dabura who Goku claims is roughly on par with Perfect Cell but no threat to either Goku or Vegeta. However by Dabura's on statement after seeing Goku's 3000 kiri power as a SSJ against Yakon, Dabura states no one with a power level that low can beat him. With Trunks and Goten, with the evidence from the season, I'd say they are in the Super Namek, Android 17 range Pre-Rosat. After spending 15 days in the Rosat i'd wager they are a little underneath if not at Android 16/Imperfect Cell with souls range. Gohan is frakking garbage, and while Goten tried his best he could never land a blow on Gohan. Truthfully their power levels make no sense, since neither Gohan or Vegeta who trains Trunks everyday noticed the runts were even close to the SSJ threshold. We can't say for certain they have MSSJ partially because it's mostly a fan theory but mostly because we never see ANYONE actually train or say they will train them for the form. Even Vegeta after he learns Trunks is a SSJ, we never see a panel in the mange or clip in the anime of him instructing Trunks. Gohan was only seen training Goten to fly, and spar with. As far as never be trained to go easy on someone. That was Piccolo's philosophy not Gohan's. Gohan is pretty much pasteurized by the Buu arc and wouldn't go full force on his little brother. Hell Future Gohan was going easy on Trunks in the brief panels we saw. SSJ Trunks struggling to hit a base, one armed future Gohan. Gohan like his father is more a methodical and techinque instructor. Vegeta and Piccolo own the school of hard knocks. With what we know are shown vs what we don't know and can only speculate. It's enough to suggest we trim the fat about fan theories about the two and stick to what is canonly shown in the manga/ anime. Edited by Doctor Know, Apr 29 2013, 04:33 AM.



Vertical	Apr 29 2013, 04:30 AM Post #22
Posts: 2,542 Group: Member Member #8,475 Joined: October 27, 2012	Saberoph Apr 29 2013, 04:20 AM That would mean Goiten would be just barely under him by the Budokai... Gohan was Trained to never go easy on anyone, so he wouldn't go easy on Goten either. As a matter of fact, in the Manga both Sparring sessions we see, 1. Gohan is Forced to fly up, and 2. They're shown to be going all out. So, it's kind of unnecessary to have the kids Pre-Rosat that low. As I said, I have Gohan making superior gains to Goten during the pre-tournament training, due to the reasons I stated; additional solo-training (shown), and muscle memory (opinion/conjecture). I agree that they started out within range of each other but I believe Gohan pulled away by the time the tournament came around. I don't understand how anything I've said places Goten "barely below" Gohan by the time of the tournament. As for Gohan being trained to never go easy on anyone... even if this is indeed true, would it not be in regard to an opponent, not a weaker training partner (let-alone his own [7 year old] brother). Gohan is, by default, gentle. I do not believe he would force Goten to endure the type of training he experienced under Piccolo (pre-Nappa/Vegeta arrival). Edited by Vertical, Apr 29 2013, 04:32 AM.
	DeviantART


~~p123~~	Apr 29 2013, 04:35 AM Post #23
Posts: 2,148 Group: Banned Member #5,120 Joined: August 9, 2010	I have the boys around 60% Goku from the Cell Games Pre Rosat , 80% post Rosat. I have Gohan at 90%.



Doctor Know	Apr 29 2013, 04:37 AM Post #24
Posts: 478 Group: Member Member #5,351 Joined: October 23, 2010	Vertical Apr 29 2013, 04:16 AM Saberoph Apr 29 2013, 04:03 AM Yeah, no disrespect but, that list he has isn't official... Curious... how much power do you see Gohan losing in the 7 years? Oh, I agree it isn't official... not a lot is when it comes to power levels but I do agree with the placements based upon the related quotes and interpretations of those quotes. As for Gohan's power loss, I have him losing a little over half his power before beginning retraining for the tournament. I believe he regained a large portion of that by the time the tournament started (due to muscle memory and additional solo-training), placing him approximately equal to Cell Games Goku. Eh 30 days is not enough time to swing yourself back in to shape. That's like asking Michael Phelps after a 7 year hiatus of no swimming or training, to spend 30 days training before the Olympics and expecting him to take home gold. It doesn't work like that. Sure Gohan improved from where he was at the start of High School, but he's still 7 years/2554 days out of the loop.



~~p123~~	Apr 29 2013, 04:38 AM Post #25
Posts: 2,148 Group: Banned Member #5,120 Joined: August 9, 2010	I have Teen Gohan at 66% of Kid Gohan.



Saberoph	Apr 29 2013, 04:41 AM Post #26
Posts: 11,517 Group: Member Member #5,650 Joined: January 23, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	Vertical Apr 29 2013, 04:30 AM Saberoph Apr 29 2013, 04:20 AM That would mean Goiten would be just barely under him by the Budokai... Gohan was Trained to never go easy on anyone, so he wouldn't go easy on Goten either. As a matter of fact, in the Manga both Sparring sessions we see, 1. Gohan is Forced to fly up, and 2. They're shown to be going all out. So, it's kind of unnecessary to have the kids Pre-Rosat that low. As I said, I have Gohan making superior gains to Goten during the pre-tournament training, due to the reasons I stated; additional solo-training (shown), and muscle memory (opinion/conjecture). I agree that they started out within range of each other but I believe Gohan pulled away by the time the tournament came around. I don't understand how anything I've said places Goten "barely below" Gohan by the time of the tournament. As for Gohan being trained to never go easy on anyone... even if this is indeed true, would it not be in regard to an opponent, not a weaker training partner (let-alone his own [7 year old] brother). Gohan is, by default, gentle. I do not believe he would force Goten to endure the type of training he experienced under Piccolo (pre-Nappa/Vegeta arrival). The Manga disagrees with you. Piccolo was brutal on Gohan during Training, then Kakarrot also wasn't going easy on Gohan in the Manga, because if he had... then Gohan wouldn't have turned out stronger. Because with Goten and Gohan Training together and Both times we've seen them Sparring, they were shown to be dead even.
	Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.


Vertical	Apr 29 2013, 04:57 AM Post #27
Posts: 2,542 Group: Member Member #8,475 Joined: October 27, 2012	AllStarSuperman Apr 29 2013, 04:37 AM Vertical Apr 29 2013, 04:16 AM Saberoph Apr 29 2013, 04:03 AM Yeah, no disrespect but, that list he has isn't official... Curious... how much power do you see Gohan losing in the 7 years? Oh, I agree it isn't official... not a lot is when it comes to power levels but I do agree with the placements based upon the related quotes and interpretations of those quotes. As for Gohan's power loss, I have him losing a little over half his power before beginning retraining for the tournament. I believe he regained a large portion of that by the time the tournament started (due to muscle memory and additional solo-training), placing him approximately equal to Cell Games Goku. Eh 30 days is not enough time to swing yourself back in to shape. That's like asking Michael Phelps after a 7 year hiatus of no swimming or training, to spend 30 days training before the Olympics and expecting him to take home gold. It doesn't work like that. Sure Gohan improved from where he was at the start of High School, but he's still 7 years/2554 days out of the loop. Though not as extreme as your example implies, as Gohan still actively uses his abilities (though not at maximum), it is not uncommon for a person to go a decade without serious training only to 'bounce back' within a month (as long as they haven't let themselves go in terms of eating and general maintenance, i.e. sat on their a* for the decade). The muscles will regain their strength (say 80%) rather quickly but their overall conditioning suffers greatly, making extended use tiring and increasing risk of injury. Saberoph Apr 29 2013, 04:41 AM Vertical Apr 29 2013, 04:30 AM Saberoph Apr 29 2013, 04:20 AM That would mean Goiten would be just barely under him by the Budokai... Gohan was Trained to never go easy on anyone, so he wouldn't go easy on Goten either. As a matter of fact, in the Manga both Sparring sessions we see, 1. Gohan is Forced to fly up, and 2. They're shown to be going all out. So, it's kind of unnecessary to have the kids Pre-Rosat that low. As I said, I have Gohan making superior gains to Goten during the pre-tournament training, due to the reasons I stated; additional solo-training (shown), and muscle memory (opinion/conjecture). I agree that they started out within range of each other but I believe Gohan pulled away by the time the tournament came around. I don't understand how anything I've said places Goten "barely below" Gohan by the time of the tournament. As for Gohan being trained to never go easy on anyone... even if this is indeed true, would it not be in regard to an opponent, not a weaker training partner (let-alone his own [7 year old] brother). Gohan is, by default, gentle. I do not believe he would force Goten to endure the type of training he experienced under Piccolo (pre-Nappa/Vegeta arrival). The Manga disagrees with you. Piccolo was brutal on Gohan during Training, then Kakarrot also wasn't going easy on Gohan in the Manga, because if he had... then Gohan wouldn't have turned out stronger. Because with Goten and Gohan Training together and Both times we've seen them Sparring, they were shown to be dead even. Nothing I've said would cause contradiction with the Manga. I've already said that I agree Goten and Gohan were close while initially training. I've also said that Gohan is shown to train additionally, withou**t Goten, and that my experience with/knowledge of muscle memory allows Gohan to gain significantly more from the pre-tournament training than Goten.
	DeviantART


Saberoph	Apr 29 2013, 05:03 AM Post #28
Posts: 11,517 Group: Member Member #5,650 Joined: January 23, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	I'm not saying Gohan didn't increase, I'm only questioning the increase you give Goten. Which I think it's completely unnecessary to have him so low.
	Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.


Vertical	Apr 29 2013, 05:10 AM Post #29
Posts: 2,542 Group: Member Member #8,475 Joined: October 27, 2012	Saberoph Apr 29 2013, 05:03 AM I'm not saying Gohan didn't increase, I'm only questioning the increase you give Goten. Which I think it's completely unnecessary to have him so low. But I haven't even stated how much of an increase I give Goten... only that it's less than Gohan's.
	DeviantART


Saberoph	Apr 29 2013, 05:13 AM Post #30
Posts: 11,517 Group: Member Member #5,650 Joined: January 23, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	In an earlier Post you said Cell Games Kakarrot. If Gohan gained most of his power back from your pov, then Goten should be higher than that.
	Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.


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