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Biggest mistake of GT
Topic Started: Apr 28 2013, 10:42 AM (1,562 Views)
Alex D. Boss
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Now that I'm watching the show. ( Yes Guys ! I'm watching GT ! ) , I find Pan sometimes annoying.

Hold up sometimes? Always! But she has the personality of Videl , so can't hate her. She is Goku's granddaughter afterall.
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TheACE
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The Last GT Fighter

Alex KloonBoss
Apr 28 2013, 07:48 PM
Now that I'm watching the show. ( Yes Guys ! I'm watching GT ! ) , I find Pan sometimes annoying.

Hold up sometimes? Always! But she has the personality of Videl , so can't hate her. She is Goku's granddaughter afterall.
oh yeah she's annoying, no doubt. But she is a nine year old girl, and does have a lot of Videl/Chi-Chi in her so it's forgivable.

And I'd say she's no less annoying than Goten and Trunks during the Buu arc. But we all know how I feel about Majin Buu and his Saga.
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* Ketchup Revenge
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

I think the whole trio was a mistake. What gets me is where the frag did they come up with Pan, Trunks and Goku?

A better match-up would've been Pan, Bra and Oob. Perhaps throw Goten and Trunks in there, or come up with a new character. What if Trunks had a kid named Sock or something?
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TheACE
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The Last GT Fighter

KetchupRevenge
Apr 28 2013, 08:51 PM
I think the whole trio was a mistake. What gets me is where the frag did they come up with Pan, Trunks and Goku?

A better match-up would've been Pan, Bra and Oob. Perhaps throw Goten and Trunks in there, or come up with a new character. What if Trunks had a kid named Sock or something?
That I guess I can see. Uub and the gang pick up the slack and leave Goku and Vegeta behind to be OG mentors. I can dig that, it makes it more interesting because they would actually have to live and learn and wouldn't have cosmic safety nets. Then Gotenks is a bit more reasonable BECAUSE then he's a desperation move/trump card. That I like.
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Billa
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Thala na Gethu!

Biggest mistake of GT:

Handing over the show to a useless director, Kasai Osamu. The source of everything.
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Professor Gohan
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Who could of directed it better? To be closer to the Z style?
Edited by Professor Gohan, Apr 28 2013, 08:58 PM.
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bardock1990
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TheACE
Apr 28 2013, 07:47 PM
bardock1990
Apr 28 2013, 06:56 PM
It looks like you were drunk before posting because your rambling here doesn't have much to do with my post. This isn't your blog, my friend.

When I mentioned everybody who should have gone instead of Pan, it doesn't mean all of them would have enhanced the show. It just means it still would have been better than the whiny, disrespectful brat being there instead. And I would bet the vast majority would want Goten to go instead for an adult Gotenks appearance. Yes the mission would have been accomplished faster and I wouldn't mind one bit. lol @ the idea of Pan making it exciting because of her screw-ups(and she had zero character development. She was as moronic at the end of GT as she was in the beginning). The only exciting thing she did was making us believe SSJ4 Goku vaporized her with his Kamehameha.
Ok Bardock, we can do this.
1st thing's first, just to be clear: "Better" and "Enhanced" aren't the same thing in this context? Break that down for me later, moving on now.

And I can see the Goten thing, but still, seeing Trunks fight solo was much more interesting regardless. And the mission being accomplished faster is OK? Why? They fly to the Galaxy, take the Dragon Balls and then that's it? No challenge, no changes, no development, no focus episodes? That just seems a little too easy and boring.

And regarding Pan, I'd say the only mistake they made was not doing anything with her hidden power and Super Saiyan potential in later arcs. She had an amazing legacy. Think about her family tree and genealogy. I think Pan got some great character moments in GT, especially the Pan's gambit episode where the chips were down and she had to rescue the strongest guys on her planet, despite the fact that the odds were horribly against her. She wasn't the tag along, she needed to step it up and surpass her limits. There wasn't Mommy, or Daddy, or Uncle Goten or even Mr. Piccolo to rescue her. It was all her and I think she did stunningly, depending on her wits and skills to do actually accomplish her mission. It went great.
Besides, Goten and Gohan actually seemed to do better on Earth and had a few interesting episodes.

Besides, having Gotenks and Goku on the same team would be like you and me playing a pick-up game against MJ and Kobe. Sure they'd shoot left handed and all to make it interesting, but that's all. I'm not much above the rim. I have the height and the vertical jump, but not the power to take a charge. If Michael Jordan's in my lane, I'm not gonna stop him. Same deal with the Universe vs. Goku and Gotenks, no contest = really boring GT. Stakes are what really makes it great.

Round 2, you're move Kaiba... I mean Bardock.
You seem to have a whole plan worked out for the saga, I did not. I merely focused on one aspect which is how much Pan sucks. GT has a lot more problems than just this one character, but if I rolled with the central theme of the story then yes, it would be very easy to have Goten/Trunks/Goku go to space without having it look like an easy squash job with no threats. Baby and General Rildo are very formidable foes that would make great fights against the big 3, but they could add atleast one more villain from another planet on that level. Add a bunch of dangerous one-trick phony henchmen and you got enough potential.

And the great thing there is that you don't have an extremely annoying, foolish, insubordinate 9 year old disrespecting her elders(family members at that) about every line she gets, with an added "GEEROOOO GEROO" scream from both her and the robot, and with absolutely zero character development from start to finish(hell, I would hate Pan a bit less if they atleast turned her into a decent kid after some time but nope).

And aside from the fighting it would be great to see how strong Trunks and Goten's friendship is by then. Since Goten is in space you'd see more of him than just going after girls. And adult Goku(imo 2nd most important fix in GT after the removal of frying pan) would still shine as a calm and collected legend/master of fighting.

PS: I always believed Pan's lack of transformations was due to Gohan's mystic 'genes' that were passed on to her. And I don't want to see her blonde, she is dumb enough already as she is!
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bardock1990
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Alex KloonBoss
Apr 28 2013, 07:48 PM
Now that I'm watching the show. ( Yes Guys ! I'm watching GT ! ) , I find Pan sometimes annoying.

Hold up sometimes? Always! But she has the personality of Videl , so can't hate her. She is Goku's granddaughter afterall.
She does not have the personality of Videl, not even when Videl had pigtails and stalking Gohan. And Videl turned into the nicest female in the series since blue haired Launch. It's mind boggling how such nice people got a kid like Pan.
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Billa
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Thala na Gethu!

Professor Gohan
Apr 28 2013, 08:57 PM
Who could of directed it better?
Nishio Daisuki. By far the best among the bunch.

This fella's been involved with the franchise ever since 1986. (DB&DBZ)

He was even part of Toriyama's Dr.Slump.

An experienced director would've certainly capitalized on the series strengths based on its prequels.

Kasai Osamu was random animator-turned-director.

What's more, he wasn't even Key-animator & most episodes of his were either drawn poorly or dragged.

Animators dont usually get promoted to Directors, but Japan's system goes by Seniority, which means the longer u serve, the higher u rank.

Evidently, thats the case with GT. The director.
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TheACE
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The Last GT Fighter

bardock1990
Apr 28 2013, 08:59 PM
You seem to have a whole plan worked out for the saga, I did not. I merely focused on one aspect which is how much Pan sucks. GT has a lot more problems than just this one character, but if I rolled with the central theme of the story then yes, it would be very easy to have Goten/Trunks/Goku go to space without having it look like an easy squash job with no threats. Baby and General Rildo are very formidable foes that would make great fights against the big 3, but they could add atleast one more villain from another planet on that level. Add a bunch of dangerous one-trick phony henchmen and you got enough potential.

And the great thing there is that you don't have an extremely annoying, foolish, insubordinate 9 year old disrespecting her elders(family members at that) about every line she gets, with an added "GEEROOOO GEROO" scream from both her and the robot, and with absolutely zero character development from start to finish(hell, I would hate Pan a bit less if they atleast turned her into a decent kid after some time but nope).

And aside from the fighting it would be great to see how strong Trunks and Goten's friendship is by then. Since Goten is in space you'd see more of him than just going after girls. And adult Goku(imo 2nd most important fix in GT after the removal of frying pan) would still shine as a calm and collected legend/master of fighting.

PS: I always believed Pan's lack of transformations was due to Gohan's mystic 'genes' that were passed on to her. And I don't want to see her blonde, she is dumb enough already as she is!
Oh Round 3. Ok, my move!
I play the Spell Card Credibility! It's a continous Spell that forces the plot to actually indicate threat for suspsnese. I'll grant you that the Baby and Rildo defense is a strong one, but a simple Triangle Attack and Grand Tour Kamehameha counquer the two of them rather quickly with our current main 3, and adding Goten to the mix would have done the same if not superiror.

I also summon realism, in defense mode. It's defense points are superior to your portayal attack! Granted, Pan is bratty and a little disrespectful. But they're a goofy tight nit family the Sons and Briefs, 4 decades of mutual and unconditional love. Pan is a little spoiled, but no more than Bulla, and she contributes. Again, episodes like Pan's Gambit and The Six-Star Dragon all prove that her brattiness is a front to make her LOOK tougher and threatening. After all, when your Grandpa is Goku and Adoptive "Cousin" is Trunks, it's hard to look badass by comparrison. I mean would you be able to keep up with Alex Caceres and Jackie Chan if you guys enetered a tournement or went on a scouting trip as a family? Doubt it. Same deal with Pan. She did well I think. I'd check out her key episodes again. Not really a huge Pan fan and think her character was wasted quite a bit, but given the circumastances I think she got a lot more development than she's given credit for.

And as for the Adult Goku thing. Eh. I don't take issue with it, but then why else would they go to space? Or alternately what would they do in the meantime, wait for Baby and Myuu to show up on their doorstep and train for 20 episodes? I couldn't sit through that. Sure they'd be prepared, but again it's way too easy a victory and the pay off just doesn't feel worth it.
Lolz, yeah Goten and Trunks don't get enough together time. But at the same time it's nice to know that they can function without being attached at the hip. And yeah, Goten wants to go out and meet girls like a regular 21 year old kid, but at the same time it's nice to see that he grew a personality. I mean what the hell would Z Goten do with his own show? Cancelled faster than a non-animated Fox Sitcom. Same deal with Trunks. He's an engineer, a corporate leader, etc. as well as still a talented and powerful fighter. I just wish HE could have gotten a bit more screentime to develop what HE actually wanted to do, despite just being thrown into space.

And the mystic thing is an interesting theory, never thought about it like that I guess, but c'mon, 3 Generations of Super Saiyans fighting as one? That's rule of cool at it's greatest.
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Billa
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Thala na Gethu!

bardock1990
Apr 28 2013, 09:03 PM
Alex KloonBoss
Apr 28 2013, 07:48 PM
Now that I'm watching the show. ( Yes Guys ! I'm watching GT ! ) , I find Pan sometimes annoying.

Hold up sometimes? Always! But she has the personality of Videl , so can't hate her. She is Goku's granddaughter afterall.
She does not have the personality of Videl, not even when Videl had pigtails and stalking Gohan. And Videl turned into the nicest female in the series since blue haired Launch. It's mind boggling how such nice people got a kid like Pan.
The treatment of Pan's character made her annoying.

Try watchin Jap Version Pan haters.

You'll be in for suprise as how much "kawaii" Pan-chan is.

As bad as the Dubbed conterpart may irritate you, Pan-chan's Jap counterpart charms.
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* Crashbreaka
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Professor Gohan
Apr 28 2013, 08:57 PM
Who could of directed it better? To be closer to the Z style?
To be honest I think most people on this forum coulda done it better.
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* Ketchup Revenge
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TheACE
Apr 28 2013, 08:53 PM
I can dig that, it makes it more interesting because they would actually have to live and learn and wouldn't have cosmic safety nets.
Yes. That is exactly my point.

In order to make a sequel series that is successful, you'd have to start from scratch. Pretty much everything that could be done with a series was done in Dragon Ball (z). With a new set of main characters, these characters would need to depend on themselves, just like Dragon Ball which was prior to anyone having "cosmic safety nets" as you described. Also with this newer set of characters, comes the potential for new adventures and a newer brand of enemies.

The thing that GT failed to translate, is that Dragon Ball is first and foremost, an adventure series.
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