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Gohan against Rildo
Topic Started: Apr 21 2013, 11:42 PM (2,393 Views)
Saberoph
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There's nothing that says Vegeta got a Zenkai, Kakarrot didn't beat Baby Vegeta to near death.

Also, Vegeta wouldn't be able to stand on his feet without any help, if Vegeta was near death he couldn't do that.

Besides, Kakarrot knocked him down, then cut off his tail... that doesn't bring someone near death.
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TheACE
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Saberoph
Apr 23 2013, 10:59 PM
There's nothing that says Vegeta got a Zenkai, Kakarrot didn't beat Baby Vegeta to near death.

Also, Vegeta wouldn't be able to stand on his feet without any help, if Vegeta was near death he couldn't do that.

Besides, Kakarrot knocked him down, then cut off his tail... that doesn't bring someone near death.
I dunno big guy,factoring in the beating he got before he transformed,, the battle where he needed a second blux wave boost As well as Majuub's attack before the las blux wave boost, where he literally ripped him up from the inside out., as well as the final round with Goku. Baby Vegeta was pretty damned done. I mean he was face down, beat to all hell at about the 8 minute mark in that very last hyperlink so I'd say that's definite Zenkai material if I've ever seen it. He actually by my count got his golden tail handed to him more times than Vegeta did during his battle on Earth (Once by the Kamehameha, then Yanjirobe, once by The Spirit Bomb and finally Gohan dropping 10 tons of Oozaru on his head.) and that was a bare minimum 33% percent boost.
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Saberoph
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If you went by that logic then Kakarrot would also get one because he was also knocked out.

Baby got powered up by wave, Kakarrot got powered up by other Saiyans.

Near death you cannot get back to your feet and you're on deaths door, Vegeta was able to get to his feet and stand by himself, if you're on deaths door... you're not gonna be able to stand on your own that well.
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Saberoph
Apr 24 2013, 02:16 AM
If you went by that logic then Kakarrot would also get one because he was also knocked out.

Baby got powered up by wave, Kakarrot got powered up by other Saiyans.

Near death you cannot get back to your feet and you're on deaths door, Vegeta was able to get to his feet and stand by himself, if you're on deaths door... you're not gonna be able to stand on your own that well.
Actually I totally agree. Goku probably got some mad power boosts from a little Zenkai action. He kept coming back stronger after every round too.
But ultimately at the end of the fight he really was done done when Baby bailed out of Veggie's body.

And that's kinda debatable too. Early on, Goku seems to have gotten a couple decent Zenkais from injuries, I think a few close to Namek, late DB, and a couple DBZ Saiyan saga parts of the arc.
That and I vaguely remember Gohan and Trunks getting one or two good boosts during the Android Arc too. Like Trunks' fight against 17 and 18. He got beat bad but was till able to limp home. That and since death's rules only apply sparingly in Dragon World I'm willing to give just about any grievous injury that the Super Saiyans get a Zenkai boost.

But I'm kinda generous when it comes to plot based things.
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Saberoph
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But it's never stated, and I'm not saying he did, I'm saying if you used the logic of Baby Vegeta getting on the Kakarrot should get one.

But Neither were at near death, being knocked doesn't always mean you're at near death.

If that was the case then, in the Boo arc Kakarrot, Trunks and Goten would all get one from being knocked out by Vegeta... but they didn't.

Also, look at the condition of everyone who received a Zenkai, then look at the condition on Super Great Ape Baby Vegeta and SS4 Kakarrot's condition, they look in too good of a condition to receive one.

Also, look at Base Vegeta once Baby leaves his body, he looks fully healed, where he was never healed by the Blutz waves, only his Great Ape was restored.
Edited by Saberoph, Apr 24 2013, 02:50 AM.
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Aman741
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The Prince of All Saiyans/Debaters.

Currently knocked out has 2 different meanings, like getting knocked out in 1 hit, or by 1000.

If you see Broly vs SSJ2 Gohan, he get's pretty badly hurt and he does receives a little zenkai.

But not Goten or Trunks as they were easily knocked out. Broly was just playing as he knew Goten wasn't the original Kakkorot.
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TheACE
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Aman741
Apr 27 2013, 09:45 PM
Currently knocked out has 2 different meanings, like getting knocked out in 1 hit, or by 1000.

If you see Broly vs SSJ2 Gohan, he get's pretty badly hurt and he does receives a little zenkai.

But not Goten or Trunks as they were easily knocked out. Broly was just playing as he knew Goten wasn't the original Kakkorot.
You mean the psychopath that had the mental capacity of a walnut that seemed to relegate his conversation to "KAKAROT" the second he saw Goten? Yeah, he was totally playing a game. You're talking about the guy that got traumatized by a crying baby as a one day old in a NURSERY OF CRYING BABIES. Yeah, Broly's not all there, who the hell knows what he was thinking/doing.

& @ Saber. Sure there was no statement, but the later battles give us feats (I.E. a much stronger Goku and Vegeta both competing with the Much Stronger Super Android 17. And we know that Feats at the end of the day Trump Statements by a long shot. Show, don't tell, that's the cardinal rule of media.
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Saberoph
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Vegeta and Kakarrot are known to Train like their lived depend on it.

So, we know they would train going by their history.

But, it isn't implied they kept their boasts from a Parasite.
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Saberoph
Apr 27 2013, 11:04 PM
Vegeta and Kakarrot are known to Train like their lived depend on it.

So, we know they would train going by their history.

But, it isn't implied they kept their boasts from a Parasite.
Yeah the parasite thing is debatable. But then it creates a bit of a hole in Goten, Trunks and Gohan's power jumps during the following arcs. But either they had one hell of a fight and must have goten SOME zenkai from it. And yeah, there was the tournament right after that so they probably trained for the tourney too. Zenkai isn't the big thing that always made them stronger, neither was training. Balance between the two.
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Saberoph
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I tend to follow the Zenkai idea, because both Baby SS Goten and SS Trunks were below Base Kakarrot, so that blast from Baby would be strong enough for them to receive one.
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
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TheACE
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So ultimately they all must have gotten a Zenkai after the Baby fight logically.

That being said, what were we talking about again? Rildo vs Gohan or something?
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Saberoph
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Professor threw around the idea that the Boast they all got from Baby was a permanent one.

And that's why Gohan was so close to Rild.
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TheACE
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Oh gotcha, I remember now. Either way Gohan only seemed to fight in base, and he seemed to do about as well as Goku did (minus the frozen limbs thing but somehow that didn't stop him) so ultimately I'm sure Gohan was stronger than Rildo.
Although Majuub's one shot seems to implicate that the fusion of Buu and his reincarnation are on a radically different level.
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Saberoph
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Oh yeah, and I even said I believe that Super Gohan to be stronger, just that Base Gohan would be weaker.

Gohan on the other hand, seemed to be Training between arcs, so a logical Zenkai and Training between arcs, makes sense for him to be where he is.
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
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Professor Gohan
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Or the boost, my friend.

Training, Zenkai(don't put it past them), and the Bebi Boost.

All possible.
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