Boo Arc's Tone.

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Boo Arc's Tone.
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 2 2013, 07:22 PM (998 Views)
Saberoph	Apr 2 2013, 07:22 PM Post #1
Posts: 11,517 Group: Member Member #5,650 Joined: January 23, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	What does everyone think the Tone of the Boo arc was, and what did you think it was trying to be? For me I thought it wanted to be dark, and it wanted to be serious, but in the end it ended up being silly imo, and the Anime really made things worse. So, what does everyone think the Tone was trying to be and what it ended up being? 1. From a Manga Point of View. 2. From an Anime Point of View.
	Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.


Zenet	Apr 2 2013, 08:11 PM Post #2
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	I think it was like Dragonball it didn't take itself to seriously from magna and anime point of view.



Saberoph	Apr 2 2013, 08:21 PM Post #3
Posts: 11,517 Group: Member Member #5,650 Joined: January 23, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	Yeah, but Boo was built up to be this monster being that would kill everyone and everything he'd come into contact with, then you have Vegeta committing suicide, then Gohan is literally at deaths door, then we see Chi-Chi die right in front of her Father and Son, who's a child. Then we see a puppy shot, then a grown mean in the same situation as Gohan was earlier, then earlier on Vegeta gets mostly mind controlled, and kills innocent people just to just his greatest rival. Then over 95% of Earth's population is whipped out this includes children too, then later on the Earth it's self is destroyed, along with two more children, a teenager and a Father figure. The Boo arc's tone wanted and was trying to be dark and very serious, but it fell into AT's usual style of being comedic.
	Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.


Zenet	Apr 2 2013, 08:26 PM Post #4
Posts: 2,755 Group: Member Member #8,544 Joined: November 11, 2012 Gender Not Specified	Saberoph Apr 2 2013, 08:21 PM Yeah, but Boo was built up to be this monster being that would kill everyone and everything he'd come into contact with, then you have Vegeta committing suicide, then Gohan is literally at deaths door, then we see Chi-Chi die right in front of her Father and Son, who's a child. Then we see a puppy shot, then a grown mean in the same situation as Gohan was earlier, then earlier on Vegeta gets mostly mind controlled, and kills innocent people just to just his greatest rival. Then over 95% of Earth's population is whipped out this includes children too, then later on the Earth it's self is destroyed, along with two more children, a teenager and a Father figure. The Boo arc's tone wanted and was trying to be dark and very serious, but it fell into AT's usual style of being comedic. But there was no emotion or realism to those parts except for Vegeta death maybe. Most of the time everything tragic seemed to be no big deal in Buu arc.



Saiyan Femme	Apr 2 2013, 08:30 PM Post #5
Posts: 1,683 Group: Member Member #8,569 Joined: November 17, 2012 Favourite Anime DBZ, Card Captor Sakura, Evangelion Favourite Manga Slam Dunk, Fushigi Yugi, Shaman King	The tone felt similar to that of the Red Ribbon Army saga. At least from the manga.



Saberoph	Apr 2 2013, 08:34 PM Post #6
Posts: 11,517 Group: Member Member #5,650 Joined: January 23, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	I haven't read Dragon Ball yet. Please explain?
	Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.


TheACE	Apr 2 2013, 08:40 PM Post #7
The Last GT Fighter Posts: 4,146 Group: Member Member #9,279 Joined: March 31, 2013 Favourite Anime DB/Z/GT, Digimon, YYH, Yugioh!, GetBackers What Browser do you use? Chrome, Safari, IE Favourite Manga Rave Master, FLCL, .hack//legendofthetwilight, Naruto II	Femme I don't wanna step on your toes but I just gotta get this off my keyboard. Gonna be honest Saberoth... the Buu Saga isn't my favorite part of Dragon History. At all. You've probably noticed from my other posts that I think characterization, story telling, and plot in general took a step back in the Buu Saga. It takes a weird turn in about seven different directions and I feel like even Akira Toriyama didn't know what the story wanted to do. Dragon Ball as a whole was an adventure and stayed true to the story about being the best. Dragonball Z was a bit more themeatic by arc than as a series as a whole. The Saiyan Saga started the action/sci-fi tone of the series. And it hit the Darker And Edgier cup HARD. Ex: GOKU FCKING DIED. 3 Chapters/Episodes in, our hero was DEAD. Dead for real? Maybe not, but up to this point in the series, the Dragon Balls only offered 1 free continue (Ressurection). Granted this was retconed during this same arc to make this true, but that adds some gravity. And they already used that up on the best guy they had. Come to find out that the guy they just beat was just the boyscouts and the actual marines were on their way, made it 14 times worse. Most of the deaths in this arc were bad, and made worse when Piccolo died and no-one got access to their free continue. What's worse, Chaotzu (a minor character but beloved none the less, and up to this point was a bit more plot relevant) was dead for real! He already got his rez, he's out of mana. Period. So even though our Heroes succeed, they didn't really win. Their friends were dead for real. Period. The Namek and Frieza arcs got a bit more intense because they brought it to a Galactic Scale. Vegeta functionally beat down everyone that could stand up to ultimate evil single handed one story arc ago. And now we find out he's just a mid-level officer in an army of 1000 other guys that can atomize planets? And to make it worse, the guy that's leading them isn't trying to conquer the universe, he already owns it. Earth is just kinda back water and isn't a big deal in the cosmic sense. It brings a lot more gravity to the situation. Not only did the Z-Fighters have a pyrric victory previously, now it was completely pointless. They did nothing more than slightly delay the invevitable. It was clear that if Vegeta was really ticked about losing, he's just show up with his boss and they wouldn't have been able to do a damn thing about it. And even when some of our heroes do get a bonus cheat code one-up, they have to go through a hell of a lot just to maintain it. And then they even lose that advantage as they source of that power dies. And that's before Frieza starts fighting! Two major villians (Vegeta and Frieza) for at least half the Arc, with demonic goals and titanic power that our heroes still can't even hope to match. The stakes were high and it didn't even feel like Krillin and Gohan could pull this off. Even when Vegeta turned around when the Ginyus showed up. True the Ginyus were goofy and made things slightly lighter and softer, but these five goofballs were casually dominating the strongest Super Warriors Earth had seen while playing paper-rock-scissors. You know you're fcked when your opponent is playing paper-rock-scissors to decide who is going to dismantle you. There was no strategy, no analysis of strengths and weaknesses, just who can win a kids game to wipe these three coffee stains off the table. I was actually relieved when Goku did show up and did arse-pull some new super powers out with him. Realistically if he didn't then the series would have ended there. The Androids and Cell are probably the pinnacle of Z's writing. We get a Badass From the Future, who's introduced just when the ultimate evil arrives to destroy the Earth. But that's not why he showed up. It turns out the bad guy from the last 2 seasons that had been terrorizing our heroes to the point where everyone had thought it was hopeless, and thought of our heroes as a coffee stain on his table was a water spot on this new guy's glass. Trunks showed up and cleaned up Frieza himself just because it was convenient and made his job easier. Which was warning the greatest warriors in all the worlds that a few robots were gonna wipe them out in three years. WHAT? They did all that to beat Frieza, only maintaining two guys that could beat (one that wouldn't exist in his current form for twenty years) and it turns out the universe's ultimate evil is gonna be a blip on the radar to these new guys who repeatedly beat the hell out of the guy that just backhanded the last bad guy into oblivion? Sit just got real. In addition to that, by this point in the series, everyone has used their free continue. And further more, they don't have the option to just use their "cheat code continues" anymore, because no one knows where the Namekians went. If anyone dies, it's game over. Permanently. The Villians are devestating when they show up, and even though our heroes have the edge on them, we quickly figure out THESE AREN'T THE RIGHT BAD GUYS. When the real bad guys do show up, THEY kill the last bad guy themselves, wake up another friend that NOBODY prepped for. This brings up something interesting in Dragon Ball Z. The Z Fighters rarely win a fight without prep time. This is a shining example. They prepped for the Androids, but they prepped for two weaker ones. They end up with three stronger ones who spank their best guys like they were 6 year olds with their hands in the biscuit tin. And to top it all off, they're not even the worst threat to the universe. Turns out they're just, get this, pieces of the ultimate monster who's made of not only these androids, but our Heroes themselves as well as their toughest enemies. That's as threatening as it gets. No continues, no prep time, and the bad guys knows more about you than you do. This was un-winnable and the wiritng really sells the danger. Sure 16, 17 and 18 aren't malicious about their wanting to kill Goku, it's just what 16 is programmed to do. Hell, 17 and 18 just look at each other and say Road Trip. They're along for the ride. The fact that they don't have to take the greatest heroes the galaxy has ever produced seriously is, like the Ginyu Force, what makes them threatening. And do I need to explain the danger Cell presents? I think the Buu saga took a step back in this regard. The danger is... wonky at best. Goku, Vegeta and Gohan don't take the issue seriously because the last they did together WAS beating down Cell. And for a while they're justified, it's almost like a Super Hero family vacation. Until they realize that they're wrong, then the show takes a radical turn for the worse with several deaths left and right, many of whom already used their free continue. To top if off, it's the characters that were made out to be the only hope the universe had to offer. Again, this is threatening. And then we bring the boys in... who also won't take the threat seriously. This is where we kinda lose the logic. Goten and Trunks aren't Z-Warriors, they've never had a conflict before. They can't be relied upon to actually understand the gravity of the situation and as such the tone suffers. Badass things keep happening, but the seriousness of these situations quickly decline. The villain's nature is also a point for suffering. Babidi is magic and good at manipulation. Buu is a manchild with no congnative thinking ability, who after killing Babidi just does things to do things. He's a weapon in all of his forms and just does stuff. He's a credible and dangerous threat because he is unstable and dangerous without guidance, but even Hercule seems to figure this out and almost ends the Arc himself by taking the high road and showing Friendship isntead of Fists. It's one thing i do like about the arc because it shows that even in the world of Badass Dragon World, friendship can defeat the worst foe. But then we get a radical change where we get a new, angrier more violent buu out of nowhere and we're back to square one. Buu doesn't have the intellegence or motive to even begin to be a Villian until he absorbs Piccolo later in the arc. And even then there's no point to it. He's almost doing it because he has no idea what else he could possibly do. Buu's a blank slate, and then further devovles into just a personified concept of chaos and destruction. Granted he's effective but for what? He just goes around blowing stuff up, there's nothing to gain. Granted Cell was designed to do this to, but he seemed to have the intellegence to comprehend that he was designed as a weapon and seems to revel in the fact that he is a living weapon and that becomes part of what motiviates him. Like a real machine, he's trying to be top of the line. Buu is just there. It's like if you left a nuke on auto pilot. Gotenks confuses the tone a bit too. He's the heroic Ginyu Force and Androids, he's beating down the baddies just because it's fun and because he's an 8 year old with super powers. But more on that another day. I kinda did this as a whole. I guess the description I gave was on the Anime, but the Buu arc manga I have read just seems to be the same thing with less unnecessary padding. Point is it's not Dragonball Z at its best. It's a mixed bag of awesome moments, transformations and achievements, but the nature of the villian is inconsitant, his survivability and threat levels only exist because Cell needed to be topped, and even whether they "topped" Cell is debatable. Buu brought some new cool concepts like Fusion and additional forms Beyond Super Saiyan and even one outside of Super Saiyan to the table and it was cool, but ulitimately only exist for a cool factor and contribute nothing to the story. And that's where it falls short. It was trying to be cool and out do the danger and prescence of threat that the mighty Frieza and Cell brought, and didn't really build on that. It just kinda happened and we accepted it. Is it bad persay? No? Does it have it's moments? Of course, it was tough watching Buu beat Gohan and Vegeta then go on to exterminate the Earth. But the magic wasn't quite there and the tone was as confused as the story's ever changing villian. Not a golden example of a Gold Haired series. Maybe it just didn't live up to the Androids. Maybe the formula was over used and got stale. Maybe the climax of the series was during Cell. From a story telling perspective the ending was much more satisfying and consistent. And there wasn't as much bouncing. Gotenks is the hope of the universe, no Gohan, no Goku's back again, no Gotenks is a Super Saiyan, No Gohan's got a new teacher, no Gotenks is back, No Gohan's stepping in, no Goku's gonna handle this, hey Vegeta's back, no Vegeta's still not caught up, let's fuse, let's unfuse, let's fuse again and win this, no let's do this as individuals and use super saiyan powers, no Fck it, one last try with the Spirit Bomb. And now for some reason it's effective on a much more dangerous foe than the other two. I dunno, I guess the story just wasn't what I liked.
	Spoiler: click to toggle Wanna Have A Man's Conversation About Dragonball? Click Here And Scope Out My Blog! If You Have The Dragon Balls To Look At Your Favorite Characters In A Real Light. Don't Click It If You Can't Handle Reading :P This Week, Bow Your Heads Low: All Hail Prince Vegeta Briefs Check Out The Star Of Dragonball Z As He Takes Center Stage: Son Gohan Or If You Haven't Already Hit Up The Man Who Started It All: Son Goku


Billa	Apr 2 2013, 08:53 PM Post #8
Thala na Gethu! Posts: 4,218 Group: Member Member #7,273 Joined: February 3, 2012 Favourite Anime Nothin What Browser do you use? Nothin Favourite Manga Nothin	Manga & Anime POV: The premise along with the tone was dark, up until Vegeta died. Later, it simply became too comedic that the tone was thoroughly inconsistent. One hand u have Chi-chi killed off, while Gotenks goofs around. I'll say the show simply returned to its roots (early Dragonball days) where its light on plot, heavy on comedy as well as some over-the-top action.



Saberoph	Apr 2 2013, 08:54 PM Post #9
Posts: 11,517 Group: Member Member #5,650 Joined: January 23, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	I didn't like the Boo arc either. But I thought it had the Potential to be better than previous arcs combined. I know I'm going to get a lot of hate for this, and I want to make it very clear that I do like AT's work. But I wouldn't mind if the Manga was rewritten but with a more serious writer, but they couldn't change any of the Plot points...just the execution of the Plot points.
	Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.


Saiyan Femme	Apr 2 2013, 09:04 PM Post #10
Posts: 1,683 Group: Member Member #8,569 Joined: November 17, 2012 Favourite Anime DBZ, Card Captor Sakura, Evangelion Favourite Manga Slam Dunk, Fushigi Yugi, Shaman King	Saberoph Apr 2 2013, 08:34 PM I haven't read Dragon Ball yet. Please explain? The RRA saga got a little more "serious" and it had more of a real heart-felt story than early DB, but still with plenty of humor and ridiculous moments in it, unlike the King Piccolo and Piccolo Jr sagas, which were almost as srs bsns as the Saiyan/Freeza/Cell arcs. Everyone says that the Buu saga had a more DB tone than the rest of DBZ, and I'm just saying I would place the Buu saga in the Red Ribbon Army tone, where I think the severity/urgency and funny/ridiculous had equal importance.



TheACE	Apr 3 2013, 12:38 AM Post #11
The Last GT Fighter Posts: 4,146 Group: Member Member #9,279 Joined: March 31, 2013 Favourite Anime DB/Z/GT, Digimon, YYH, Yugioh!, GetBackers What Browser do you use? Chrome, Safari, IE Favourite Manga Rave Master, FLCL, .hack//legendofthetwilight, Naruto II	Saiyan Femme Apr 2 2013, 09:04 PM Saberoph Apr 2 2013, 08:34 PM I haven't read Dragon Ball yet. Please explain? The RRA saga got a little more "serious" and it had more of a real heart-felt story than early DB, but still with plenty of humor and ridiculous moments in it, unlike the King Piccolo and Piccolo Jr sagas, which were almost as srs bsns as the Saiyan/Freeza/Cell arcs. Everyone says that the Buu saga had a more DB tone than the rest of DBZ, and I'm just saying I would place the Buu saga in the Red Ribbon Army tone, where I think the severity/urgency and funny/ridiculous had equal importance. That's about right. It's kinda like the Black Star Saga and the Baby Saga from GT season one. Only difference being that the GT fights in those arcs were on a much more cosmic level.
	Spoiler: click to toggle Wanna Have A Man's Conversation About Dragonball? Click Here And Scope Out My Blog! If You Have The Dragon Balls To Look At Your Favorite Characters In A Real Light. Don't Click It If You Can't Handle Reading :P This Week, Bow Your Heads Low: All Hail Prince Vegeta Briefs Check Out The Star Of Dragonball Z As He Takes Center Stage: Son Gohan Or If You Haven't Already Hit Up The Man Who Started It All: Son Goku


Skywalker	Apr 3 2013, 07:02 AM Post #12
Posts: 779 Group: Member Member #5,634 Joined: January 18, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Gurren Lagann, DB/Z/Super, Naruto What Browser do you use? Chrome	The arc could've been one of the best, the earliest parts of it really built it up to something special, but then it quickly fell apart once it was clear that it was going to be Goku to save the day.



~~DSB~~	Apr 3 2013, 09:37 AM Post #13
The Showstopper Posts: 3,850 Group: Suspended Member #8,626 Joined: November 29, 2012 Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox 16 Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	Well , i thing AT decided to return to his Gag style writing [the thing he did in DB] Look at all the opportunities to make this Saga Epic : SSj3 , Fusion , Kais , Vegeta sacrificing his life , earth gets blown up etc etc What did AT do ? He WASTED his chance to create an EPIC saga which could easily outshine his previous works and make DBZ even popular than it is And the Anime makes it Even worse .... via Gotenks
	There's More


Saberoph	Apr 3 2013, 09:54 AM Post #14
Posts: 11,517 Group: Member Member #5,650 Joined: January 23, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	I agree with you 100%. I feel Gotenks was like the Boo arc, had the potential to be something completely amazing, but turned out to be a missed opportunity.
	Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.


~~DSB~~	Apr 3 2013, 10:01 AM Post #15
The Showstopper Posts: 3,850 Group: Suspended Member #8,626 Joined: November 29, 2012 Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox 16 Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	Not only Gotenks , Everything in the Arc had a great opportunity
	There's More


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