Base Goku(EoZ) & SSJ2 Gohan(post Z Sword) vs. SSJ2 Gotenks(pre)

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Base Goku(EoZ) & SSJ2 Gohan(post Z Sword) vs. SSJ2 Gotenks(pre)
Tweet Topic Started: Mar 30 2013, 04:52 PM (1,864 Views)
+ Havoc_Wreaker	Mar 31 2013, 12:07 AM Post #31
Popcorn Posts: 9,904 Group: Elite Member Member #5,870 Joined: March 19, 2011 Gender Other Country Canada	teh op is ssj 2 gotenks pre i agree that gotenks ss 2 would win



+ Pyrus	Mar 31 2013, 01:07 AM Post #32
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Yellow_Flash Mar 30 2013, 07:13 PM trunks thing and thats because its ussj and we all know what ussj does, r u telling me that if gotenks is ssj he would be slower? piccolo has doubts its in the manga ? gotenks was never intially noticed in ssj he was only mentioned much later in the manga so........ You stretch the "doubts" thing far past its boundaries, and you blatantly pass off the fact that Gotenks's power was never in question. In fact, you inadvertently accept that he was stronger than Boo by merely focusing on the speed doubt instead of making an argument for his power from that standpoint. You thereby take the speed "doubt" and try to stretch it into power, which it is not a part of.
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+ Havoc_Wreaker	Mar 31 2013, 02:03 AM Post #33
Popcorn Posts: 9,904 Group: Elite Member Member #5,870 Joined: March 19, 2011 Gender Other Country Canada	doubt is doubt kp dont deny it, he still doubts it why are u deny facts when does piccolo says gotenks ki is ready or good, he just says its amazing which he said for goku too lol nice try



+ Pyrus	Mar 31 2013, 02:30 AM Post #34
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Havoc Mar 31 2013, 02:03 AM doubt is doubt kp dont deny it, he still doubts it why are u deny facts when does piccolo says gotenks ki is ready or good, he just says its amazing which he said for goku too lol nice try I notice you didn't address the actual point of my post, so I'll do the same. Quote: Havoc, you conceded that the "gamble" on Gotenks was only about time. With that concession, you also thereby concede that Gotenks's power was not in question, since if time was the only problem mentioned, strength couldn't have been. Just in case you forgot: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8581706&t=8348696 Gotenks > Fat Boo The Fuhrer has shown you a Daizenshuu entry stating Kid Boo is only somewhat stronger than Fat Boo: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8581937&t=8348696 Goku fought with an advantage over Fat Boo, and fought evenly with Kid Boo. Goku ~ Kid Boo > Fat Boo Thus, Goku cannot have been suppressing by any big amount. You brought up the Daizenshuu entry on Gotenks. That has been responded to on the second page of this thread already. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8442841&t=8348696 http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8442942&t=8348696 If you use it, you are saying Gotenks (pre) < Gohan (pre-Zeta Sword). Are you saying that? You brought up that Goku being able to transform in an instant means his strength was haxed. The Fuhrer asked for other examples where a transformation takes long after the first time, and no examples were provided: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8583172&t=8348696 You brought up that Goku saying he couldn't beat Fat Boo originally and then later changing his answer means his strength was haxed. The Fuhrer asked how Goku could suppress in a form he had not mastered, and suggested instead that Goku had different motives during each fight which would dictate his amount of effort. He also suggested that being instead of being suppressed, Goku was putting in less effort: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8580961&t=8348696 http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8581301&t=8348696 http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8581660&t=8348696 http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8581748&t=8348696 You brought up that Goku was never at full power against Kid Boo. The Fuhrer provided a quote of Goku saying he would go all-out from the start of the fight: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8583195&t=8348696 You said Goku's charging of ki for 1 minute meant that he couldn't have been at full power throughout the fight. The Fuhrer provided quotes from Goku explaining that he started the fight at full power, underestimated Boo, did not have knowledge of the stamina drain of SSj3 thus underestimated his window of opportunity, and then could not charge up his power quicker than it was draining, thus could not maintain the form: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8583195&t=8348696 You brought up your whole theory on Goku and Gotenks. The Fuhrer brought up Occam's Razor: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8583229&t=8348696 You said Goku's testament of Gotenks's power is a throwaway comment. The Fuhrer provided the definition of a throwaway comment: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8583250&t=8348696 You claimed Herms was not accurate due to the "..."'s in his translations. The Fuhrer explained that those were pauses in speech, and provided a raw Japanese scan as evidence: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8583238&t=8348696 You proposed that Goku meant Base Gotenks would be stronger than Boo, and since Base Gotenks was beaten, Goku's claim was contradicted. The Fuhrer and Copy_Ninja presented evidence that Goku was thinking of SSj Gotenks, as it would have been specified if he meant Base: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8582565&t=8348696 http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8582570&t=8348696 You said Kid Boo was a lot stronger than Fat Boo due to their fights with Vegeta. The Fuhrer explained that that logic was faulty with an example of the same merit: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8581812&t=8348696 You claimed Piccolo questioning SSj Gotenks at all meant he had doubts. The Fuhrer provided a theory and examples that would attribute to Piccolo's doubt of Gotenks's speed: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8581597&t=8348696 You claimed Piccolo was a better ki sensor than Goku. The Fuhrer and Hurry My Curry responded with haste to this claim: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8581623&t=8348696 http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8581634&t=8348696 You claimed Piccolo doubted Gotenks from the start. The Fuhrer and Copy_Ninja debunked your argument by explaining that it was based on a moot point: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8581662&t=8348696 http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8581664&t=8348696 You asked for evidence that SSj Gotenks could be felt in the Kai realm. Evidence was given: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8581722&t=8348696 You asked for evidence of Goku saying Gotenks would be stronger than him. Evidence was given: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8582338&t=8348696 You proposed that transforming took ki away from Goku so he could not be at full power. The Fuhrer responded in jest: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8583209&t=8348696 You have been given evidence for each item you brought up. Each time thereafter, you reverted back to using the Daizenshuu entry on Gotenks, which has been debunked. You have not responded to this post by the Fuhrer: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8582417&t=8348696 You have not explained how your theory works with this post: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8581650&t=8348696 You did not respond to the post where you were asked why you have SSj3 Goku = SSj Gotenks (post) and not SSj2 Gotenks: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8583172&t=8348696 You could not given an example of a transformation taking long after its debut in this post: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8583172&t=8348696 Has the Fuhrer's intelligence agency compiled this info correctly? Edited by Pyrus, Mar 31 2013, 02:32 AM.
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+ Havoc_Wreaker	Mar 31 2013, 02:55 AM Post #35
Popcorn Posts: 9,904 Group: Elite Member Member #5,870 Joined: March 19, 2011 Gender Other Country Canada	lol the time i was trying to go 1 v 5 and got a bigillion questions and majority of what u posted was already answered as for your post im not saying speed is power, all im saying is piccolo had a doubt, now tell me did he or didnt he? did he ever say gotenks your ki is ready for battle? only that is was great okay so was gokus and piccolo thought more highly of goku then gotenks goku never confirmed that gotenks was ready in the other world either? gotenks never fought buu? he lost in base, never had a chance in ssj goku lied he never actually told buu poop? he only told the z fighters for a greater purpose, so either a mistake by AT or goku was lying to clam the others so buu wouldn't destroy the world ..... and ur telling me hes stronger then goku, nice try hes unproven,i have already told you this if you cannot bring up anything then stop trying to debate this is how are debates always go you post something i post something we both think its right, i dont go farther into it and ignore it cause i know we are both thick headed all those posts there have been answerd more or less u just ignored my posts and say i have given no answer but okay



+ Pyrus	Mar 31 2013, 03:28 PM Post #36
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	The point I was making is you are only focusing on Piccolo's curiosity of Gotenks's speed and not his acceptance of his power. That must mean you accept that Gotenks had the raw power to beat Boo, regardless if Piccolo doubted he could win overall, correct?
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+ Havoc_Wreaker	Apr 1 2013, 12:00 AM Post #37
Popcorn Posts: 9,904 Group: Elite Member Member #5,870 Joined: March 19, 2011 Gender Other Country Canada	oh i think gotenks could beat buu, i know i have been going flip flop between the two but it makes sense that gotenks can beat buu IF serious, he has th power and speed and like i said kp i have answered most of those questions i might missed a few but, im too lazy to check as for gotenks and goku i still have goku stronger not hella stronger but nonetheless stronger



+ Pyrus	Apr 1 2013, 12:06 AM Post #38
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Havoc Apr 1 2013, 12:00 AM oh i think gotenks could beat buu, i know i have been going flip flop between the two but it makes sense that gotenks can beat buu IF serious, he has th power and speed and like i said kp i have answered most of those questions i might missed a few but, im too lazy to check as for gotenks and goku i still have goku stronger not hella stronger but nonetheless stronger I will hold you to that, then. Interesting.
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+ Havoc_Wreaker	Apr 1 2013, 12:12 AM Post #39
Popcorn Posts: 9,904 Group: Elite Member Member #5,870 Joined: March 19, 2011 Gender Other Country Canada	you better at first i was going back and forth between the two but ultimately makes sense that gotenks can beat buu most likely i have doubts but in the end if serious he can win and i would like to add that i hope there are no hard feelings between the two of us and i apologize if over the two years i have been here i have been mean or called u names because i know there has been some bad blood between the two of us ,i say let bygones be bygones and forget it i think ur a great person and thats why i voted yes for u as an elite



+ Pyrus	Apr 1 2013, 12:13 AM Post #40
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	There is no bad blood. It's always fun to see what you bring to the table since you support Goku more than anyone else I normally debate.
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+ Havoc_Wreaker	Apr 1 2013, 12:18 AM Post #41
Popcorn Posts: 9,904 Group: Elite Member Member #5,870 Joined: March 19, 2011 Gender Other Country Canada	yeah i might give off the impression that i mostly support goku but w/e i try and stay unbiased, im not dumb and i know vegeta was stronger then goku at androids arrival i know goku was weaker then gohan mssj cell games oh as for goku using IT for mass dodging he can apparently do that, and to someone stronger to conclude i get at how i favor goku more but i am in no way a goku fanboy hes not even my fav character Edited by Havoc_Wreaker, Apr 1 2013, 12:19 AM.



+ Solid Snake	Apr 1 2013, 12:40 AM Post #42
滅Are you frightened? Posts: 8,961 Group: Elite Member Member #6,739 Joined: September 11, 2011 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Dragon ball, z, gt, Naruto & Shippuden, Bleach, Rosario + Vampire What Browser do you use? Kept you waiting huh? Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Naruto, and Bleach	Allow me to settle this (this is so fun LOL): Buu saga<Bills saga<EoZ saga I'll be happy to answer why I posted that if you desire but I'm positive you all know. Edit: Thanks Pyrus Edited by Solid Snake, Apr 2 2013, 03:56 PM.
	Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig SUPER THANKS CELL Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8434874/1/#new Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8435708/1/#new


+ Pyrus	Apr 2 2013, 05:43 AM Post #43
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	xGOKUdaSAVIORx Apr 1 2013, 12:40 AM Allow me to settle this (this is so fun LOL): Buu saga>Bills saga>EoZ saga I'll be happy to answer why I posted that if you desire but I'm positive you all know. Your arrows are facing the wrong way.
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