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- [DBZF Budokai (FINALS)]: Miles Edgeworth VS Clearin
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| [DBZF Budokai (FINALS)]: Miles Edgeworth VS Clearin | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 18 2013, 06:10 PM (1,525 Views) | |
| + Kyouks | Feb 18 2013, 06:10 PM Post #1 |
 
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 Spoiler: click to toggle NOTE: IF YOU ARE NOT MILES EDGEWORTH, CLEARIN, OR A FACT CHECKER, THEN DO NOT NOT POST IN THIS TOPIC The final debate deciding the victor of the DBZF Budokai is now here...Miles Edgeworth has successfully taken out his opponent GridZero in the semi-finals, and Clearin has done the same to Copy_Ninja (kudos to all of them for getting this far). Now, the topic for the finals is: Did Gohan get a power boost from anger as a Super Saiyan 2 throughout the entirety of his fight with Cell (not just the end of the Kamehameha struggle, or the anger that was needed for the transformation to begin with)? Good luck. |
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| + Clearin | Feb 18 2013, 06:20 PM Post #2 |
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Guess I'll start. The most simple thing here is that the entire focus was on Gohan's rage boosts.
The entire point of the fight is for Gohan to rely on his own "thing" to win, any saiyan can turn Super Sayain 2. It wouldn't make much sense to have all this build up around Gohan's rage boosts if it didn't even come into play. There's also this quote:
Goku makes it clear that he noticed this potential in Gohan in the RoSaT, and unlike filler there's nothing to suggest that Gohan actually turned Super Saiyan 2 before the battle against Cell. So Goku was talking about the boost itself, and not the form. Most of my supporting quotes come from the Buu saga though. This one especially:
I don't know about you, but to me it's clear he's referring to the Cell fight here, and he's making it very clear that an angry Gohan = more power, and we know Gohan can already turn SSj2 of his own free will at this point. Now look at this quote:
"How you got angry and fought Cell" "Draw out all that power". Goku flat out says he's referring to the Cell fight whilst talking about Gohan's hidden power, hidden power which Goku claims came out during that very fight. I'll leave it here for now. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Feb 18 2013, 06:46 PM Post #3 |
Izanagi!
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Ahaha! Great post, I'll try and respond. There's no doubt that rage was the catalyst for the transformation. However, with the exception of the Kamehameha struggle, I don't believe that anger boosted his strength in any way. If you'll look here; Spoiler: click to toggle Gohan has a crazed look in his eyes. This, apart from the massive power increase, is the tell-tale sign of Gohan getting a rage boost. The same is evident here; Spoiler: click to toggle Here; Spoiler: click to toggle And here; Spoiler: click to toggle The only time Gohan resembles this in his SSJ2 form is when he's countering Full Power Perfect Cell's Kamehameha; Spoiler: click to toggle Now, I'm not going to deny the possibility that rage may have played a factor there, but if you'll note, Gohan looks confident, even relaxed, in his SSJ2 form, definitely contradicting any requirements for a rage boost that we've seen up until that point Tackling Goku's claim about Gohan getting angry; Until the Kamehameha struggle, SSJ2 Gohan wasn't shown to get angry at all. We can't tell if he's using Full Power or not, although his attitude suggests that he isn't, seeing as he wants to torture Cell as much as possible. The only time that Gohan's apparent true strength brimmed was at the struggle. Even then, Goku said that Gohan was consciously holding back, meaning that although a rage boost played a role, arguably quite a bit of the power in the final push was from Gohan's own accessible power, rather than a rage boost. |
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| + Clearin | Feb 18 2013, 07:06 PM Post #4 |
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I think that his eyes are more of an artistic thing than an indication of Gohan having a rage boost. He has that crazed look every other time because he pretty much loses himself to his power, the point with Cell was that he was in control of it for the first time ever.
Well I think the rage boost came from Gohan getting mad at #16's death, it added on-top of the SSj2 transformation. Here's some more quotes from the Buu saga:
These don't exactly add anything new, they're just fueling the flame I set in my first post. SSj2 is not activated by a rage boost in the Buu saga yet the focus on Gohan's anger is still present. Sorry for the short post, there's really nothing brand new I can bring to the table without repeating myself. Edited by Clearin, Feb 18 2013, 07:09 PM.
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| * Yu Narukami | Feb 18 2013, 07:21 PM Post #5 |
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Izanagi!
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Ah, I see. Very interesting points. I believe that when a Saiyan transforms, all of their dormant power is drawn to the surface. It didn't seem as though Goku had any access to reserves on Namek once he'd transformed. As such, I think that all of Gohan's power was brought to the fore-front after his transformation. As Rage boosts draw on Gohan's dormant power, as shown on Namek, it would be impossible for Gohan to use rage to draw upon power that isn't there. It's possible that he did have dormant power left, but considering that he had a rage boost during the Kamehameha, I don't really see how it could fit; If Gohan had a rage boost during the entire fight, the rage boost that he would get during the struggle would be minuscule, or even non-existent. Furthermore, Gohan hasn't ever been shown to be able to suppress when he's having a rage boost, and that would be necessary in order to get the best logical explanation for the KHH struggle. |
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| + Clearin | Feb 18 2013, 07:29 PM Post #6 |
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Let me just make sure I understand you, when you say when a Saiyan transforms all their dormant power is brought out do you mean there's no set multiplier? But since you mentioned Super Saiyan Goku then how would SSj2 factor into that if SSj by itself brings it all out? Sorry I think I missed what you were trying to say there lol. As for the kamehameha I'm actually not sure I'd call that a "rage boost" honestly. I think he certainly uses the same hidden power both times, but in this case he has control over it and can bring it out by himself rather than with a trigger. I also believe that much of that power was the power Gohan was using before but lost when his motivation dropped significantly after Goku died and Cell broke his arm. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Feb 18 2013, 07:45 PM Post #7 |
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Izanagi!
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Well, I don't like to complicate things too much, so I usually like to go with a set multiplier and that set multiplier being Gohan's maximum dormant power. So, basically, SSJ2, in my eyes, is a set multiplier but also acts as a 'potential unlock'. Makes it easier than trying to work with either one separately. With Goku, I was just trying to convey the idea that the initial transformation brings out all of a person's dormant power as opposed to subsequent transformations. That could explain why so much emphasis is put on anger when it comes to Teen Gohan; With the Initial transformation, Gohan hit his 'potential roof' whereas, 7 years later, his potential roof increased, meaning that he had dormant power to access whilst he was angry. You've got a point about the KHH struggle. Regarding my earlier point, I believe that Gohan 'holding back' is comprised of two things; 1) Gohan consciously holding back his power 2) Gohan refraining from getting angry When Gohan did let all of his power out, it could've been because he was succumbing to his rage and letting out all of the ki that he was unable to access before. This links back to, 'Yuuki', if I recall correctly? The idea that a person must be confident to get the best balance and benefits of ki. A combination of both Yuuki and a Rage boost occurred when Gohan pushed back, in my opinion. |
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| + Clearin | Feb 18 2013, 07:49 PM Post #8 |
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I honestly don't know what to say about the transformation just happening to be Gohan's dormant power, I can't disprove it but at the same time I think you realize it's your own theory and nothing supports it (Although if something does support it that I am not aware of please post it). I really feel like things are coming to an end already lol. I don't have huge walls of texts to post here, I believe what I believe due to the points I made in my first posts. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Feb 18 2013, 07:51 PM Post #9 |
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Izanagi!
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Yeah, I do realise that there's no actual evidence for my opinion on the dormant power/transformation theory. Agreed, I've got nothing left, really. Every point that I wanted to make is there, so it'd be pointless for me to continue, unless something new appears |
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| + Kyouks | Feb 18 2013, 07:52 PM Post #10 |
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Well, that's that, then. Good debate, you two, interesting read. I'll have this locked now. |
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Feb 18 2013, 07:53 PM Post #11 |
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