Android arc fighters (Power-wise; 19, 20, Piccolo)

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Android arc fighters (Power-wise; 19, 20, Piccolo)
Tweet Topic Started: Feb 16 2013, 10:40 PM (1,503 Views)
+ Kyouks	Feb 16 2013, 10:40 PM Post #1
Posts: 10,305 Group: Elite Member Member #8,102 Joined: August 11, 2012 Gender Other Country South Africa Favourite Anime Hentai What Browser do you use? The best one Favourite Manga They all suck	So, this popped up a few times in discussion with Miles, so I figured I'd make a topic about it. So, when Vegeta fights Android 19 (after 19 had absorbed the Kame wave and a teeny bit of Sick Goku's chi while Goku's in base), he comments that, upon watching 19's movements, the 'droid wasn't much to speak of (his words being something along the lines of "it looks like you guys weren't as bad as the rumors made out.") He's able to confirm his claim when 19 punches him, budging him slightly. But what's this line mean? All we got from Trunks 3 years prior was the androids beat the snot out of him. If 19 isn't as bad as the rumors made out, what would this imply? That 19 can't beat the snot out of Trunks? Seems to be the most likely case here, as there aren't really any other "rumors" to go off of. However, since the rumors weren't said to flat-out false (19 is merely said to be "not as bad"), we can safely say he's still superior to Trunks from 3 years ago, but not by a wide margin. Dare I say it, but this leaves the possibility of 19 post-absorptions to be slightly inferior even to post-Yardrat Goku, and this Goku gave Trunks "a little hope" in the task that lay ahead...one can argue that if 19 ain't all that, he may not give Trunks the same hope. If you're curious, here are the lines in question: Quote: Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P9.4 Trunks: “Knowing your strength, Goku, I have a little hope.” Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P7.4 Vegeta: “I’ve realized by watching your faint movements up to now…That you guys don’t seem as terrible as the rumors made out.” Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P13.6 Context: after No.19 punches Vegeta, to little effect Vegeta: “I figured you were at about that level…” So, we end up with the chains: 19 (post-Kame) > Trunks (killing Freeza) Future 'droids >>> Trunks (killing Freeza) Post-Yardrat Goku <=> 19 (post-Kame) (a possible chain, not solid) Next, we have android 20, who garners...somewhat of a different reaction, in terms of power. Quote: Chapter: 347 (DBZ 153), P3.2-3 Piccolo: “It seems that in the original history, we were supposed to be wiped out by you two androids…But it looks like the future has changed somehow…Was it that you weren’t as strong as we thought?...Or have we grown too strong?... This is rather interesting. With 19, it's simply "meh, you aren't too terrible." However, when 20 comes into the picture, another possibility arises - perhaps Gero is just another weakling, yeah? Or maybe it isn't that..maybe the Z Senshi have grown too powerful? First off, this means that, unlike 19, there is a possibility that Gero does possess the power than the 'droids in the rumors were said to possess - he likely does have the capability to beat the snot out of Trunks from 3 years ago, whereas 19 does not. However, the advantage can't be too large, because Piccolo thinks the possibility of him being a scrub is still there. However, we can safely say that Trunks from 3 years ago isn't exactly going to rival Gero in power, like he might with 19. 20 post >>/>>> Trunks (killing Freeza) 20 post >/>> 19 post Now, Piccolo's advantage over 20 post is definitely considerable, but nothing overly drastic, because if Piccolo was, say, 3 times stronger than Trunks (killing Freeza) or something, then Piccolo having gotten too powerful wouldn't be a possibility; it would more than likely be a given, not to mention that making Piccolo, like, 2x stronger than Gero is rather unnecessary and just an excuse to make powers really big, from my perspective. Piccolo >>/>>> 20 post. Numerically for you PL freaks, I'd display it like: Spoiler: click to toggle Trunks (3 years ago) ~ 100 19 post ~ 107-110 20 post ~ 120-125 Piccolo (androids arc) ~ 145-155 Whatchu guys think? Edited by Kyouks, Jun 27 2013, 09:02 PM.



MrTsoi	Feb 16 2013, 10:45 PM Post #2
What? You wannah peace of me? Posts: 1,338 Group: Member Member #7,834 Joined: June 25, 2012 Gender Male Country Netherlands Favourite Anime Drrr, Danhi Koukesai No Nichijou, Oran Highschool, Dragonball What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Spam section	Well other than that everything seems to be okay.. I never knew that stuff about android 20 and 19...
	Click here!! Spoiler: click to toggle []


Alex D. Boss	Feb 16 2013, 10:46 PM Post #3
Posts: 8,688 Group: Probation Member #8,536 Joined: November 8, 2012 Gender Male Country Canada	I agree. Good post So Androids > SSJ Goku Yardrat , maye possible right ?.



+ Kyouks	Feb 16 2013, 10:47 PM Post #4
Posts: 10,305 Group: Elite Member Member #8,102 Joined: August 11, 2012 Gender Other Country South Africa Favourite Anime Hentai What Browser do you use? The best one Favourite Manga They all suck	Alex KloonBoss Feb 16 2013, 10:46 PM I agree. Good post So Androids > SSJ Goku Yardrat , maye possible right ?. 20 post would more than likely be superior to Yardrat Goku, yes. 19 post might be, but if he is, it'd be by a rather small margin, and even then it's a bit of a stretch in my opinion, but I wouldn't dispute it unless you end up with 19 post too far ahead of Trunks as a result.



MrTsoi	Feb 16 2013, 10:49 PM Post #5
What? You wannah peace of me? Posts: 1,338 Group: Member Member #7,834 Joined: June 25, 2012 Gender Male Country Netherlands Favourite Anime Drrr, Danhi Koukesai No Nichijou, Oran Highschool, Dragonball What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Spam section	So if 20 have decided I am going to fight goku when he arrives he would have won right?
	Click here!! Spoiler: click to toggle []


Alex D. Boss	Feb 16 2013, 10:49 PM Post #6
Posts: 8,688 Group: Probation Member #8,536 Joined: November 8, 2012 Gender Male Country Canada	I think 19 Post KHH > SSJ Goku Yardrat Goku This could be possible ? Or is it Post Goku himself?



Goddess Ultimecia	Feb 16 2013, 10:49 PM Post #7
Posts: 10,145 Group: RP Moderator Member #8,473 Joined: October 26, 2012 Gender Male Country None	Edited: ignore what i just asked I like how it looks but i always had 19 before the absorption a bit above Yardrat Goku, is that a farfetched claim? Edited by Goddess Ultimecia, Feb 16 2013, 10:52 PM.
	NinjaSushi Colouring Credit to NinjaSushi for the colouring


* Ketchup Revenge	Feb 16 2013, 10:52 PM Post #8
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	I really don't believe that Gero is as powerful as most people place him at. Gero didn't know anything about Super Saiyans when he designed 19, and had 19 make him into a cyborg. His understanding of power increases (for Saiyans) was linear, so I can't really see him making himself or 19 much above the equivalent of 30,000,000 or so (without ki absorbed). Even though he took cells from Freeza to contribute to Cell's genome, was utterly surprised at the existence of Super Saiyans. 19 could only touch Goku because Goku was sick, and well below his full potential power as a Super Saiyan.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


+ Kyouks	Feb 16 2013, 10:52 PM Post #9
Posts: 10,305 Group: Elite Member Member #8,102 Joined: August 11, 2012 Gender Other Country South Africa Favourite Anime Hentai What Browser do you use? The best one Favourite Manga They all suck	WolfangOverlord156 Feb 16 2013, 10:49 PM So if 20 have decided I am going to fight goku when he arrives he would have won right? Goku in the androids arc? Nah, I'm saying he's stronger than Goku after his Yardrat training (the Goku who stopped Trunks' sword with a finger). Alex KloonBoss Feb 16 2013, 10:49 PM I think 19 Post KHH > SSJ Goku Yardrat Goku This could be possible ? Or is it Post Goku himself? It might be, but again, if he ends up too far ahead of Trunks as a result, it wouldn't work. InkStains_Suck Feb 16 2013, 10:49 PM Quick question Kyouka if 19 absorbed that much power and Vegeta one shots him with a Big Bang wouldn't that mean initial SSJ Vegeta>SSJ Goku? A little off topic i know Initial?



* Yu Narukami	Feb 16 2013, 10:54 PM Post #10
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	Hmm. Interesting post. Personally, I think that it's an impossibility for Post-Absorption #19 to be under Post-Yardrat Goku. Both Vegeta and Piccolo question whether they're as strong as Trunks claimed, but you must remember that there was a humongous gap between Trunks and the Androids, #19 could fit anywhere in there. Trunks made them out to be horrific, yes, but all that means is that #17 and #18 >>>> #19 Later on, Piccolo does entertain the two possibilities that could apply. I think it's a hybrid of them both. They became a lot stronger than they thought and the androids were weaker than they though. Although, I understand that with minimal gaps, you have to follow the logic that the OP uses



Alex D. Boss	Feb 16 2013, 10:54 PM Post #11
Posts: 8,688 Group: Probation Member #8,536 Joined: November 8, 2012 Gender Male Country Canada	KetchupRevenge Feb 16 2013, 10:52 PM I really don't believe that Gero is as powerful as most people place him at. Gero didn't know anything about Super Saiyans when he designed 19, and had 19 make him into a cyborg. His understanding of power increases (for Saiyans) was linear, so I can't really see him making himself or 19 much above the equivalent of 30,000,000 or so (without ki absorbed). Even though he took cells from Freeza to contribute to Cell's genome, was utterly surprised at the existence of Super Saiyans. 19 could only touch Goku because Goku was sick, and well below his full potential power as a Super Saiyan. Did you just ignored the whole Post of OP?



Goddess Ultimecia	Feb 16 2013, 10:56 PM Post #12
Posts: 10,145 Group: RP Moderator Member #8,473 Joined: October 26, 2012 Gender Male Country None	By initial i meant when he first showed up, not when he first turned so i misworded it
	NinjaSushi Colouring Credit to NinjaSushi for the colouring


+ Kyouks	Feb 16 2013, 10:57 PM Post #13
Posts: 10,305 Group: Elite Member Member #8,102 Joined: August 11, 2012 Gender Other Country South Africa Favourite Anime Hentai What Browser do you use? The best one Favourite Manga They all suck	Miles Edgeworth Feb 16 2013, 10:54 PM Hmm. Interesting post. Personally, I think that it's an impossibility for Post-Absorption #19 to be under Post-Yardrat Goku. Both Vegeta and Piccolo question whether they're as strong as Trunks claimed, but you must remember that there was a humongous gap between Trunks and the Androids, #19 could fit anywhere in there. Trunks made them out to be horrific, yes, but all that means is that #17 and #18 >>>> #19 Later on, Piccolo does entertain the two possibilities that could apply. I think it's a hybrid of them both. They became a lot stronger than they thought and the androids were weaker than they though. Although, I understand that with minimal gaps, you have to follow the logic that the OP uses Thing is, if they haven't even seen 17 and 18's power (from the future), how are they to conclude that 19 isn't as bad as the rumors said, going by that? Not that having 19 post under Yardrat Goku is incorrect, but I can't see what else they could go off of the conclude that future 'droids >>> 19. InkStains_Suck Feb 16 2013, 10:56 PM By initial i meant when he first showed up, not when he first turned so i misworded it Piccolo does state that Vegeta's above Goku, so yeah. Edited by Kyouks, Feb 16 2013, 10:59 PM.



* Yu Narukami	Feb 16 2013, 11:01 PM Post #14
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	Hmm. Well, I think it all depends on gains. If you have them making humongous gains, as I do, #19 (Post) will be well above SSJ Trunks. If you have smaller gains, it becomes more questionable. Eh, I don't have an answer.



+ Kyouks	Feb 16 2013, 11:03 PM Post #15
Posts: 10,305 Group: Elite Member Member #8,102 Joined: August 11, 2012 Gender Other Country South Africa Favourite Anime Hentai What Browser do you use? The best one Favourite Manga They all suck	Miles Edgeworth Feb 16 2013, 11:01 PM Hmm. Well, I think it all depends on gains. If you have them making humongous gains, as I do, #19 (Post) will be well above SSJ Trunks. If you have smaller gains, it becomes more questionable. Eh, I don't have an answer. Remember, this is my evidence for the gains not being as big as some might think. :P



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