Do 23rd Krillin and Yamcha surpass Piccolo Daimao?

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Do 23rd Krillin and Yamcha surpass Piccolo Daimao?
Tweet Topic Started: Feb 15 2013, 11:27 PM (3,690 Views)
Animelover5487	Feb 17 2013, 03:00 AM Post #46
Posts: 887 Group: Member Member #8,531 Joined: November 7, 2012	Battle Power Feb 17 2013, 01:54 AM Hmm, all interesting points, I'm going to take them all into consideration next time I redo my list. From all I can gather and remember (which isn't much): Yamucha Defending he's stronger than Daimao 1) Kami said he'd reach him with a bit of training. If the gap isn't that big, then he's (Yamucha) sure to be already stronger than Daimao. 2) Kami said he was a good fighter. Defending he's weaker than Daimao 1) Kami saying he was a good fighter isn't much to go on. He was impressed by Yamucha's Sokidan, other than that, Yamucha got trashed. Besides, Yamucha's supposed to be (as much as people pick on him) a great fighter, he's one of the strongest people on Earth at the time. Popo saying Goku is pathetic doesn't necessarily means Kami is gonna trash-talk too.Problem with that is, he already said Yamcha was strong before finding out about his Sokidan. 2) Junior said he could take out everyone but Goku at the same time, if you go by that, there's not much room for Kuririn / Yamucha to be stronger than Daimao without going overboard their Z PLs. *That's why I would recommend using power levels that dont rely on Z numbers if you do than you'll never get a good power level list, it ruins our creativity. Kuririn Defending he's stronger than Daimao 1) Piccolo commented as him not being just a weakling. If he's not a weakling to Junior's standards, than he's stronger than Daimao. 2) Kuririn kept up with Piccolo (Initial) untill Piccolo showed him "a bit of his true powers". He'd have to be at least stronger than Daimao to do this. Defending he's weaker than Daimao 1) Same reason as Kami complementing Yamucha, technique. Piccolo wasn't expecting a technique as creative as Kakusandan, which gave Kuririn an opening. He actually commented on Kuririn's cunning, not raw power.[Actually he was he said he wasn't surprised by Krillin's technique and was going by his power level Chapter: 171, P12.5, P13.1-2 Piccolo: “Frankly, I’m surprised…Not by your Bukujutsu, but by your technique and movement…And your toughness…To apologize for calling you a small fry, I’ll show you just a little bit…” Kuririn: “What? What will you show me?!” Piccolo: “The true power of the great Ma Junior…” 2) Since characters aren't shown to actually suppress / power-up in DB in terms of raw ki, Goku sensing that Piccolo (Initial) was stronger than Daimao didn't matter. Characters in DB don't gradually power-up mid-fight, but simply punch lighter, run slower compared to their full strenght, untill they feel required to punch harder, etc.Goku was going by his movements. In db it's not all about sensing ki it's about reading movements to find out how strong someone is. 3) Junior said he could take out everyone but Goku at the same time, if you go by that, there's not much room for Kuririn / Yamucha to be stronger than Daimao without going overboard their Z PLs. * Most people have Daimao (Young) around 200+ or so. Considering that: Junior >> Kami >> Popo >> Daimao* If you put Kuririn / Yamucha above Daimao, then the chain would be like this: Junior >> Kami >> Tenshinhan >> Kuririn > Yamucha > Daimao, with Popo being somewhere in the middle of Kami and Daimao. Considering the stomp range at 20% (some people use 33% or even more), then: 385 >> 320 >> 265 >> 220 > 210 > 200, making them all above their BoZ readings. I still have Kuririn and Yamucha weaker than Daimao, but I might change this next time I work on my list, good discussion. @bold, you brought up some good points though.



+ Kyouks	Feb 17 2013, 03:01 AM Post #47
Posts: 10,305 Group: Elite Member Member #8,102 Joined: August 11, 2012 Gender Other Country South Africa Favourite Anime Hentai What Browser do you use? The best one Favourite Manga They all suck	Nanho Feb 17 2013, 02:56 AM Spoiler: click to toggle hmm, this is way after his fight with krillin. ''I'm warning you I'm not at the same level I was 3 years ago'' its a stretch, but this could be implying he wasn't using a power greater power than king piccolo yet. Not possible, as Shen (Kami) was superior to Goku @ Tien, who's above King Piccolo, and a bit inferior to Weighted Piccolo.



Kblo247	Feb 17 2013, 03:04 AM Post #48
Posts: 5,234 Group: Member Member #6,870 Joined: October 16, 2011	Piccolo wasnt weighted. It wasn't established that he wore weights to Raditz. Only Goku wears them in DB.



Nanho	Feb 17 2013, 03:34 AM Post #49
Posts: 464 Group: Probation Member #8,818 Joined: January 6, 2013	Quote: Not possible, as Shen (Kami) was superior to Goku @ Tien, who's above King Piccolo, and a bit inferior to Weighted Piccolo. Goku was holding back a lot when fighting tien: Spoiler: click to toggle Look there his line ''me neither'' which comes right after piccolos line ''I am not at the same level I was 3 years ago'' and piccolos line which follows ''Your bluffing'. Goku was holding out, alot, he was keeping his actual strength hidden until his fight with piccolo. Piccolo was doing the same and basically underestimated Goku. Edited by Nanho, Feb 17 2013, 03:37 AM.



Captain Cadaver	Feb 17 2013, 03:44 AM Post #50
Absolute End of Century Conquerer Posts: 1,345 Group: Member Member #9,053 Joined: February 16, 2013 Favourite Anime Hokuto no Ken/Fist of the North Star Favourite Manga Hokuto no Ken/Fist of the North Star	Nanho Feb 17 2013, 03:34 AM Goku was holding back a lot when fighting tien: It was still by enough to completely outstrip his past self. Ten stated that everything about weighted Goku was a lot greater than 3 years ago other than his speed. Unweighted Goku was faster than Ten could see, warranting a large gap between them. That already places him a league or two above Daimao.
	"Of this life, I have not a single regret!"


+ Kyouks	Feb 17 2013, 03:46 AM Post #51
Posts: 10,305 Group: Elite Member Member #8,102 Joined: August 11, 2012 Gender Other Country South Africa Favourite Anime Hentai What Browser do you use? The best one Favourite Manga They all suck	I know Goku didn't go all-out, hence why I said "Goku @ Tien", not to mention that I said Kami was superior to said Goku, whereas FP Goku is clearly >> kami, lol. Agreed 100% with Cadaver's post.



Nanho	Feb 17 2013, 04:03 AM Post #52
Posts: 464 Group: Probation Member #8,818 Joined: January 6, 2013	Quote: It was still by enough to completely outstrip his past self. Ten stated that everything about weighted Goku was a lot greater than 3 years ago other than his speed. Unweighted Goku was faster than Ten could see, warranting a large gap between them. That already places him a league or two above Daimao. He didnt say he was a ''lot'' stronger. You added the lot. his words '' You were already perfect 3 years ago, and you're even stronger now'' And his speed has nothing to do with his strength..



+ Pyrus	Feb 17 2013, 04:08 AM Post #53
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Chapter: 177, P1.2-4, P2.1 Tenshinhan: “Son, you are truly incredible. 3 years ago, your strength was all but perfect. I’m amazed that you’ve managed to go so far above even that. However, there’s one thing that you haven’t changed that much from 3 years ago. And that’s something especially important in battle…speed!”
	Spoiler: click to toggle


+ Kyouks	Feb 17 2013, 04:12 AM Post #54
Posts: 10,305 Group: Elite Member Member #8,102 Joined: August 11, 2012 Gender Other Country South Africa Favourite Anime Hentai What Browser do you use? The best one Favourite Manga They all suck	If you read his post properly, you would see that he never once implies that Goku's speed affected his strength. "Son, you are truly incredible. 3 years ago, your strength was all but perfect. I'm amazed that you've managed to go so far above even that." Regardless of the amount, his point still stands, anyways. Beating around the bush won't change a thing.



~~GridZero~~	Feb 17 2013, 04:13 AM Post #55
Posts: 5,387 Group: Suspended Member #7,577 Joined: April 27, 2012 What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Fullmetal Alchemist	Exactly what is Nanho arguing?



+ Pyrus	Feb 17 2013, 04:16 AM Post #56
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	GridZero Feb 17 2013, 04:13 AM Exactly what is Nanho arguing? Goku (holding back) < King Piccolo, I think.
	Spoiler: click to toggle


+ Kyouks	Feb 17 2013, 04:18 AM Post #57
Posts: 10,305 Group: Elite Member Member #8,102 Joined: August 11, 2012 Gender Other Country South Africa Favourite Anime Hentai What Browser do you use? The best one Favourite Manga They all suck	GridZero Feb 17 2013, 04:13 AM Exactly what is Nanho arguing? He brought up the possibility of Piccolo Jr not using the same power as king Piccolo until right before his fight with Goku, which I shot down with Piccolo (@ Kami) >= Kami (in Shen) >> Goku @ Tien >> king Piccolo. Then he told me Goku held back against Tien, which I didn't need to be told at all if he'd just read my post properly. Then Cadaver says Goku @ Tien was a lot greater than Goku @ Piccolo, and Nanho nitpicks, saying that it wasnt a lot (Fanslation), which KP shot down. Nanho also basically acknowledged that Goku @ Tien was greater than king Piccolo right there anyways, as he only nitpicked at the gap, just beating around the bush at this point. Edited by Kyouks, Feb 17 2013, 04:23 AM.



* Ketchup Revenge	Feb 17 2013, 04:23 AM Post #58
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	Alex KloonBoss Feb 16 2013, 08:46 PM KetchupRevenge Feb 16 2013, 08:40 PM Alex KloonBoss Feb 16 2013, 08:30 PM KetchupRevenge Feb 16 2013, 08:27 PM Alex KloonBoss Feb 16 2013, 06:24 PM ^It has Raditz at 1,500. Which its hilarious , consider the FACT that he was stated to rival Saibaman. But how strong were Saibamen? We can't compare him to the Saibamen (number-wise) if we don't even know what their average level is. All we can do is take Nappa's word. Saibaman 1,200. Raditz - stated by AT to rival him. I don't know if AT ever said that, but I know Nappa did. I'm thinking that it could be an average estimation from Nappa. He couldn't judge exact levels without a scouter anyway. If you can cite where AT said that, I'd be willing to believe you. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/production/toriyama/ Exact quote from Toriyama memo: (Saibamen Memo) It also notes that their battle power is quite high, and only slightly inferior to Raditz. I agree with what you said, but it does say "slightly inferior". That could mean a 10% difference for all we know. But either way, I don't believe that Raditz was 1,500. He was at most 1,350 (which would make it a 11.25% difference between him and the average Saibaman). Gohan's 1307 headbutt didn't kill him and Piccolo's first Makankosoppo (which I don't believe was as strong as the second one) almost did. He saw it in time enough to avoid it, and the second one (1,400+) obviously killed him.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


~~Professor Gohan~~	Feb 17 2013, 04:24 AM Post #59
Posts: 0 Group: GTFO Member #6,938 Joined: November 2, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Let's try to stay on topic here.



+ Pyrus	Feb 17 2013, 04:27 AM Post #60
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	KetchupRevenge Feb 17 2013, 04:23 AM Alex KloonBoss Feb 16 2013, 08:46 PM KetchupRevenge Feb 16 2013, 08:40 PM Alex KloonBoss Feb 16 2013, 08:30 PM KetchupRevenge Feb 16 2013, 08:27 PM Alex KloonBoss Feb 16 2013, 06:24 PM ^It has Raditz at 1,500. Which its hilarious , consider the FACT that he was stated to rival Saibaman. But how strong were Saibamen? We can't compare him to the Saibamen (number-wise) if we don't even know what their average level is. All we can do is take Nappa's word. Saibaman 1,200. Raditz - stated by AT to rival him. I don't know if AT ever said that, but I know Nappa did. I'm thinking that it could be an average estimation from Nappa. He couldn't judge exact levels without a scouter anyway. If you can cite where AT said that, I'd be willing to believe you. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/production/toriyama/ Exact quote from Toriyama memo: (Saibamen Memo) It also notes that their battle power is quite high, and only slightly inferior to Raditz. I agree with what you said, but it does say "slightly inferior". That could mean a 10% difference for all we know. But either way, I don't believe that Raditz was 1,500. He was at most 1,350 (which would make it a 11.25% difference between him and the average Saibaman). Gohan's 1307 headbutt didn't kill him and Piccolo's first Makankosoppo (which I don't believe was as strong as the second one) almost did. He saw it in time enough to avoid it, and the second one (1,400+) obviously killed him. Would the second Makankosappo really be stronger than the first? Piccolo would logically have used a good amount of power in the first, and he was growing weaker because of his injuries. Just my opinion, though. EDIT: Dammit, Progo. Anyway, Krillin and Yamcha have a lot of proof for them being above Piccolo Daimao, I think. Too much proof. Edited by Pyrus, Feb 17 2013, 04:27 AM.
	Spoiler: click to toggle


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