My Tien power levels and placements.

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My Tien power levels and placements.
Tweet Topic Started: Feb 10 2013, 11:10 AM (5,486 Views)
Goddess Ultimecia	Feb 11 2013, 02:56 PM Post #16
Posts: 10,145 Group: RP Moderator Member #8,473 Joined: October 26, 2012 Gender Male Country None	Meh i personally believe the humans (save Tien and Krillin) never got past Frieza but these gains you have are massive. I cant see him getting that strong by the EOZ.
	NinjaSushi Colouring Credit to NinjaSushi for the colouring


Alex D. Boss	Feb 11 2013, 03:57 PM Post #17
Posts: 8,688 Group: Probation Member #8,536 Joined: November 8, 2012 Gender Male Country Canada	Emmeth Feb 11 2013, 02:51 PM Alex KloonBoss Feb 11 2013, 02:45 PM Disagree. Krillin was stated to be relevant against Frieza , so he was atleast 300K. Dr.Gero wanted Piccolo,Gohan,Tien and Krillin's energy to beat SSJ Vegeta , so the Humans were easily above the million to be relevant for beating SSJ Vegeta. Also the fact that Tien was stated to train after Cell Games. I'm not disagreeing with you, but just because Dr. Gero wanted the humans and Piccolo's energy doesn't necessarily mean that Tien's PL is over 1 million. But like I said, I'm not disagreeing, because I do think both Krillin and Tien was over 1 million at this point. They did train hard for the fight against the androids. Krillin is probably stronger due to the unlocked potential, but Tien's fighting spirit is way higher than Krillins. Tien is way more serious. They should be above the mil since it relates them powerlevel with Piccolo/Gohan above SSJ Vegeta. Don't forget that Dr.Gero was inferior to Piccolo who is below SSJ Vegeta.



* Ketchup Revenge	Feb 12 2013, 05:37 AM Post #18
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	Alex KloonBoss Feb 11 2013, 02:45 PM Disagree. Krillin was stated to be relevant against Frieza , so he was atleast 300K. Dr.Gero wanted Piccolo,Gohan,Tien and Krillin's energy to beat SSJ Vegeta , so the Humans were easily above the million to be relevant for beating SSJ Vegeta. Also the fact that Tien was stated to train after Cell Games. These are Saiyan and Freeza saga power levels. It shows Krillin's during his fight with Recoom, and it only puts him at 13,000. (French Daizenshuu scan) Spoiler: click to toggle Krillin's 13,000 PL is during Goku's arrival on Namek, which was after the ki release that he received from the Great Namekian Elder. Krillin's not Saiyan, he doesn't get Zenkai, therefore it's impossible for him to go from 13,000 to 300,000 in just one day. That's a 22.3x increase. Other evidence to his weak level is that him and Gohan double-teamed Goku(Ginyu), who was only 23,000. He only did two useful things against Freeza. The first was cutting off his tail, and that's only because Freeza was distracted (and can't sense ki). The second was hitting him with a ki blast with Gohan, but Freeza again was distracted. Krillin fails to "be useful" head-on at any point in a fight with anyone aside from Freeza's weak footsoldiers. Tenshinhan may have been stated to train after the Cell Games, but Toriyama stated in this interview that Krillin was the strongest Earthling male. There's no arguing with that. I think it's pathetic too, but 13,000 is actually well above average human range, and three years of training... may be put him at above 100,000. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Feb 12 2013, 05:46 AM.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


* Crashbreaka	Feb 12 2013, 05:44 AM Post #19
Captain Oblivious Posts: 6,888 Group: Retired Staff Member #7,771 Joined: June 14, 2012 Gender Male Country New Zealand Favourite Anime Onepunch-Man, Gurren Lagann What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Seven Deadly Sins, Food Wars, Onepunch-Man	What we think is really irrelevant as far as a characters power goes however. If it was stated in the manga that Krillin could help take down Freeza, then he could. All power gains are plot based regardless. Personally I think Gohan gained around 1000x after his power was brought beyond his limits, so 22x (ish) is actually pretty tame



+ Kyouks	Feb 12 2013, 05:44 AM Post #20
Posts: 10,305 Group: Elite Member Member #8,102 Joined: August 11, 2012 Gender Other Country South Africa Favourite Anime Hentai What Browser do you use? The best one Favourite Manga They all suck	KetchupRevenge Feb 12 2013, 05:37 AM Krillin's 13,000 PL is during Goku's arrival on Namek, which was after the ki release that he received from the Great Namekian Elder. Krillin's not Saiyan, he doesn't get Zenkai, therefore it's impossible for him to go from 13,000 to 300,000 in just one day. That's a 22.3x increase. Didn't get the power via zenkai though. KetchupRevenge Feb 12 2013, 05:37 AM Other evidence to his weak level is that him and Gohan double-teamed Goku(Ginyu), who was only 23,000 'Tis prior to Vegeta claiming that Krillin (and Gohan's) powers have grown to the point that they'll help him beat Freeza (before Freeza transforms). KetchupRevenge Feb 12 2013, 05:37 AM He only did two useful things against Freeza. The first was cutting off his tail, and that's only because Freeza was distracted (and can't sense ki). The second was hitting him with a ki blast with Gohan, but Freeza again was distracted. Krillin fails to "be useful" head-on at any point in a fight with anyone aside from Freeza's weak footsoldiers. This was with 2nd form Freeza, so it doesn't contradict Vegeta's thought that Krillin would be of relevance to 1st form Freeza (which Gohan and Krillin agree upon after a bit). KetchupRevenge Feb 12 2013, 05:37 AM I think it's pathetic too, but 13,000 is actually well above average human range, and three years of training... may be put him at above 100,000. Gero figured that absorbing Tien and Krillin and Gohan's chi, along with Piccolo's (who was suppressed at the time), he'd get to a level that could allow him to fight SSJ Vegeta. Sure, maybe he was wrong, but he can't possibly hope for anything from fighters in the hundred-thousands range. My thoughts on the matter. :P



* Ketchup Revenge	Feb 12 2013, 06:21 AM Post #21
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	Kiosko Iwannabegattsu Feb 12 2013, 05:44 AM KetchupRevenge Feb 12 2013, 05:37 AM Krillin's 13,000 PL is during Goku's arrival on Namek, which was after the ki release that he received from the Great Namekian Elder. Krillin's not Saiyan, he doesn't get Zenkai, therefore it's impossible for him to go from 13,000 to 300,000 in just one day. That's a 22.3x increase. Didn't get the power via zenkai though. KetchupRevenge Feb 12 2013, 05:37 AM Other evidence to his weak level is that him and Gohan double-teamed Goku(Ginyu), who was only 23,000 'Tis prior to Vegeta claiming that Krillin (and Gohan's) powers have grown to the point that they'll help him beat Freeza (before Freeza transforms). KetchupRevenge Feb 12 2013, 05:37 AM He only did two useful things against Freeza. The first was cutting off his tail, and that's only because Freeza was distracted (and can't sense ki). The second was hitting him with a ki blast with Gohan, but Freeza again was distracted. Krillin fails to "be useful" head-on at any point in a fight with anyone aside from Freeza's weak footsoldiers. This was with 2nd form Freeza, so it doesn't contradict Vegeta's thought that Krillin would be of relevance to 1st form Freeza (which Gohan and Krillin agree upon after a bit). KetchupRevenge Feb 12 2013, 05:37 AM I think it's pathetic too, but 13,000 is actually well above average human range, and three years of training... may be put him at above 100,000. Gero figured that absorbing Tien and Krillin and Gohan's chi, along with Piccolo's (who was suppressed at the time), he'd get to a level that could allow him to fight SSJ Vegeta. Sure, maybe he was wrong, but he can't possibly hope for anything from fighters in the hundred-thousands range. My thoughts on the matter. :P First Quote: It doesn't make sense how he could've increased that much in a single day without him being Saiyan, unless there's something else to the power up that The Elder gave him that we don't know about... like (simply an example) his power increases exponentially after each training session or fight. We have no idea though, this is a crack-pot theory that I just came up with. Second Quote: I don't remember Vegeta ever stating that Krillin and Gohan's powers were going to help him defeat Freeza. It's quite possible that he was relying on their ability to hide their power in order to trick Freeza. As far as Vegeta knew at that point in time, Freeza still used a scouter to give him power readings. However, either way, Freeza could've been tricked into believing that those two were stronger than they were letting on because he couldn't sense ki to gauge an enemy's power. Third Quote: Same point as the second. Fourth Quote: There's a problem with that point you made about Gero. Gero only understands linear power increases, and only understands later that Saiyans can't be estimated in that way because of Zenkai. For all we know, his decision to absorb Gohan, Krillin, Tien, and Piccolo's ki could've been based on his past observations about them being the strongest out of the Z fighters. Past observation was the whole basis of his judgment during his appearance anyway. He also seemingly can't gauge strength unless he observed it up close. Evidence to this is that he didn't get at first that Goku was way stronger than 19 in Super Saiyan, in addition to Vegeta being able to trick him into believing that he was way stronger than he actually was after 19 had absorbed the latter share of Vegeta's ki. Also Gero got cocky because he got a charge from Vegeta when Vegeta tried to blast the rocky area where Gero was hiding out. Gero over-estimated how much effort that Vegeta put into the blast, and in all honesty, the ki blast probably wasn't even 1% of Vegeta's over-all power. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Feb 12 2013, 06:22 AM.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


Alex D. Boss	Feb 12 2013, 03:04 PM Post #22
Posts: 8,688 Group: Probation Member #8,536 Joined: November 8, 2012 Gender Male Country Canada	KetchupRevenge Feb 12 2013, 05:37 AM Alex KloonBoss Feb 11 2013, 02:45 PM Disagree. Krillin was stated to be relevant against Frieza , so he was atleast 300K. Dr.Gero wanted Piccolo,Gohan,Tien and Krillin's energy to beat SSJ Vegeta , so the Humans were easily above the million to be relevant for beating SSJ Vegeta. Also the fact that Tien was stated to train after Cell Games. These are Saiyan and Freeza saga power levels. It shows Krillin's during his fight with Recoom, and it only puts him at 13,000. (French Daizenshuu scan) Spoiler: click to toggle Krillin's 13,000 PL is during Goku's arrival on Namek, which was after the ki release that he received from the Great Namekian Elder. Krillin's not Saiyan, he doesn't get Zenkai, therefore it's impossible for him to go from 13,000 to 300,000 in just one day. That's a 22.3x increase. Other evidence to his weak level is that him and Gohan double-teamed Goku(Ginyu), who was only 23,000. He only did two useful things against Freeza. The first was cutting off his tail, and that's only because Freeza was distracted (and can't sense ki). The second was hitting him with a ki blast with Gohan, but Freeza again was distracted. Krillin fails to "be useful" head-on at any point in a fight with anyone aside from Freeza's weak footsoldiers. Tenshinhan may have been stated to train after the Cell Games, but Toriyama stated in this interview that Krillin was the strongest Earthling male. There's no arguing with that. I think it's pathetic too, but 13,000 is actually well above average human range, and three years of training... may be put him at above 100,000. Sorry for saying this but , Daizenshuu is straight a big BS. Krillin is stated to be relevant for beating Frieza 1st form who was 530,000. Vegeta also stated that Gohan and Krillin's ki was steadily rising , and not to mention that Piccolo felt great ki refering to Gohan Krillin and Vegeta.



+ Kyouks	Feb 12 2013, 05:27 PM Post #23
Posts: 10,305 Group: Elite Member Member #8,102 Joined: August 11, 2012 Gender Other Country South Africa Favourite Anime Hentai What Browser do you use? The best one Favourite Manga They all suck	KetchupRevenge First Quote: It doesn't make sense how he could've increased that much in a single day without him being Saiyan, unless there's something else to the power up that The Elder gave him that we don't know about... like (simply an example) his power increases exponentially after each training session or fight. We have no idea though, this is a crack-pot theory that I just came up with. Vegeta said his power was steadily growing, so I'd guess that the Elder's unlocking of potential was gradual. A guidebook entry hinted at this, if I recall correctly, but I can't check at the moment. Sweet and Sour sauce Revolution I don't remember Vegeta ever stating that Krillin and Gohan's powers were going to help him defeat Freeza. It's quite possible that he was relying on their ability to hide their power in order to trick Freeza. As far as Vegeta knew at that point in time, Freeza still used a scouter to give him power readings. However, either way, Freeza could've been tricked into believing that those two were stronger than they were letting on because he couldn't sense ki to gauge an enemy's power. In Chapter 295 (DBZ 101), Vegeta claims they'll beat Freeza together, then specifically says, "It seems even Freeza hasn't noticed...those two's battle power is steadily rising...", and after Vegeta and Freeza grapple for a bit, Gohan seems to agree. Vegeta's even cocky enough to goad Freeza into transforming, so he expects Krillin's power (his power, because that's what he specifically cites) to be of use against a stronger Freeza (he was wrong, but he was wrong on Freeza's power, not Gohan's or Krillin's). soy sauce Fourth Quote: There's a problem with that point you made about Gero. Gero only understands linear power increases, and only understands later that Saiyans can't be estimated in that way because of Zenkai. For all we know, his decision to absorb Gohan, Krillin, Tien, and Piccolo's ki could've been based on his past observations about them being the strongest out of the Z fighters. Past observation was the whole basis of his judgment during his appearance anyway. He also seemingly can't gauge strength unless he observed it up close. He sensed Yamcha approaching from a distance, knowing he was far beyond the average human. Quote: Evidence to this is that he didn't get at first that Goku was way stronger than 19 in Super Saiyan He knew well enough after watching him fight Quote: in addition to Vegeta being able to trick him into believing that he was way stronger than he actually was after 19 had absorbed the latter share of Vegeta's ki. No one can sense reserves Mayoniase sux Also Gero got cocky because he got a charge from Vegeta when Vegeta tried to blast the rocky area where Gero was hiding out. Gero over-estimated how much effort that Vegeta put into the blast, and in all honesty, the ki blast probably wasn't even 1% of Vegeta's over-all power. Couldn't have been that cocky, he didn't even think of taking on Vegeta until the others showed. It's also at this point that he deduces Piccolo to be 2nd strongest, and looking at the wording ("So Piccolo's the most powerful after Vegeta, huh?..."), he seemed to be sending their powers rather than going off of predictions.



* Ketchup Revenge	Feb 13 2013, 04:06 AM Post #24
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	Alex KloonBoss Feb 12 2013, 03:04 PM KetchupRevenge Feb 12 2013, 05:37 AM Alex KloonBoss Feb 11 2013, 02:45 PM Disagree. Krillin was stated to be relevant against Frieza , so he was atleast 300K. Dr.Gero wanted Piccolo,Gohan,Tien and Krillin's energy to beat SSJ Vegeta , so the Humans were easily above the million to be relevant for beating SSJ Vegeta. Also the fact that Tien was stated to train after Cell Games. These are Saiyan and Freeza saga power levels. It shows Krillin's during his fight with Recoom, and it only puts him at 13,000. (French Daizenshuu scan) Spoiler: click to toggle Krillin's 13,000 PL is during Goku's arrival on Namek, which was after the ki release that he received from the Great Namekian Elder. Krillin's not Saiyan, he doesn't get Zenkai, therefore it's impossible for him to go from 13,000 to 300,000 in just one day. That's a 22.3x increase. Other evidence to his weak level is that him and Gohan double-teamed Goku(Ginyu), who was only 23,000. He only did two useful things against Freeza. The first was cutting off his tail, and that's only because Freeza was distracted (and can't sense ki). The second was hitting him with a ki blast with Gohan, but Freeza again was distracted. Krillin fails to "be useful" head-on at any point in a fight with anyone aside from Freeza's weak footsoldiers. Tenshinhan may have been stated to train after the Cell Games, but Toriyama stated in this interview that Krillin was the strongest Earthling male. There's no arguing with that. I think it's pathetic too, but 13,000 is actually well above average human range, and three years of training... may be put him at above 100,000. Sorry for saying this but , Daizenshuu is straight a big BS. Krillin is stated to be relevant for beating Frieza 1st form who was 530,000. Vegeta also stated that Gohan and Krillin's ki was steadily rising , and not to mention that Piccolo felt great ki refering to Gohan Krillin and Vegeta. No offense, but you have no right to argue if you're simply going to dismiss evidence that's part of an official guide. I don't agree with it either, but it is what it is. And regardless of how strong Krillin was during the Freeza Arc, the point is that Krillin's stated to be the strongest Earthling male (in an interview in 2004 with Toriyama). Therefore, Tenshinhan can't be above him unless something comes out to contradict that. I just find it extremely difficult to believe that a human could ever reach 1 million. The Ginyu Force were the pinnacle fighters in the known galaxy, and all of them didn't even touch 70,000 (except for Ginyu himself, of course). The problem with arguments about power levels that I find is that people don't look at the bigger picture. They constantly need to be reminded that the power levels that we're used to seeing in the series are not the norm. They are freak powers. The Saiyans were considered the strongest race in the Universe when they still existed, and 99% of them didn't even touch 10,000. So anything above 10,000 is abnormally strong, anything above 20,000 is freakish, a level equivalent to Ginyu is unheard of, and anything around Freeza first form is practically god-like. My point is that just because the Super Saiyans are ridiculously powerful doesn't mean that everyone else is as well. And with the limited growth of human power, it's hard for me to believe that thy could ever reach 1,000,000 without some sort of modifications or special circumstances. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Feb 13 2013, 04:08 AM.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


Alex D. Boss	Feb 13 2013, 12:49 PM Post #25
Posts: 8,688 Group: Probation Member #8,536 Joined: November 8, 2012 Gender Male Country Canada	What's so hard to believe that a human can surpass a million ?



* Ketchup Revenge	Feb 13 2013, 02:47 PM Post #26
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	Alex KloonBoss Feb 13 2013, 12:49 PM What's so hard to believe that a human can surpass a million ? This conversation is beginning to circle, meeting adjourned. I've already explained it several times, now your just trollin'. You're deliberately ignoring evidence (Daizenshuu levels in the Ginyu Arc) just to shift the conversation in favor of your point. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Feb 13 2013, 02:54 PM.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


+ Emmeth	Feb 13 2013, 02:49 PM Post #27
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Doesn't matter anyway. Scouters can't read PLs that high anyway. I do believe a Boo arc Tien could beat Frieza though, but never Cell.
	My Twitch Page


* Ketchup Revenge	Feb 13 2013, 03:04 PM Post #28
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	Emmeth Feb 13 2013, 02:49 PM Doesn't matter anyway. Scouters can't read PLs that high anyway. I do believe a Boo arc Tien could beat Frieza though, but never Cell. Logic dictates no, but I'm willing to believe that he could beat first form Freeza by that time, or even hold his own against someone stronger. My issue is that there's no evidence that they could ever contend with enemies stronger than 1,000,000. I'd like to believe they can, but there's no evidence to that.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


+ Emmeth	Feb 13 2013, 03:23 PM Post #29
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	KetchupRevenge Feb 13 2013, 03:04 PM My issue is that there's no evidence that they could ever contend with enemies stronger than 1,000,000. I'd like to believe they can, but there's no evidence to that. I know Kikoho is pretty overpowered, but that fact it holds Semi-Perfect Cell down for a long period, proves that he could handle enemies that strong, using the right strategy.
	My Twitch Page


* Ketchup Revenge	Feb 13 2013, 03:44 PM Post #30
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	Emmeth Feb 13 2013, 03:23 PM KetchupRevenge Feb 13 2013, 03:04 PM My issue is that there's no evidence that they could ever contend with enemies stronger than 1,000,000. I'd like to believe they can, but there's no evidence to that. I know Kikoho is pretty overpowered, but that fact it holds Semi-Perfect Cell down for a long period, proves that he could handle enemies that strong, using the right strategy. In spite of it's name, Kikoho doesn't use ki, so his "power level" as we understand it has nothing to do with it. Also the Shin Kikoho is simply a repetitive kikoho. So in the case of Cell vs Tenshinhan, imagine someone throwing a football and hitting you in the back repeatedly. It most likely won't injure you, but it's definitely distracting and wouldn't feel good either. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Feb 13 2013, 03:45 PM.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


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