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| [DBZF Budokai]: Clearin vs REAL Son Goku: the 22nd Budokai | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 17 2013, 06:00 AM (695 Views) | |
| + Kyouks | Jan 17 2013, 06:00 AM Post #1 |
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Here is your topic; I decided to make a bit broader as you two more or less agreed on Tien/Goku/Roshi placement. Even if you two agree on things here, we'll pick a winner based on whoever presents their point of view best. In any case, this is the entire 22nd Budokai and where its competitors stand in relation to others power-wise. You may include characters from previous story arcs in your chains if you wish to be more clear. IMPORTANT: IF YOU ARE NOT CLEARIN, REAL SON GOKU, OR A FACT CHECKER, THEN DO NOT POST IN THIS TOPIC So with that, let's begin! Good luck. |
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| + Clearin | Jan 17 2013, 02:47 PM Post #2 |
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I'll just start by giving my power chain and explaining each position. I have: Goku ~ Tien > Roshi > Krillin ~ Yamcha > Chaozu > Manwolf > Panput (The last 2 I am very unsure about) Why I have Goku equal to Tien: This one relies more on the fight itself than quotes to back it up. Goku and Tien are practically shown to be equals the entire time, each one constantly surprising the other and withstanding hits that they assumed would knock their opponent out. There is however a quote from Toriyama that says they're almost exactly equal in power.
That's from an Interview in Daizenshuu 5 (Translated by Herms on Kazenshuu). Now I realize he says "almost" exactly equal, and it's true that a few other quotes from the manga may imply Goku was slightly better.
But I think the main thing to take from that interview question is that he chose that particular final match over Goku vs Piccolo or Goku vs Jackie Chun on the basis that they're abilities were almost equal, which implies that to Toriyama the gap between Goku and Tien was smaller than the gap between any other 2 finalists. So Goku may have a tiny upper hand but I think the gap is really minuscule to the point where the difference is practically unnoticeable from 2 people who are perfectly equal.. Why I have Roshi weaker than Goku/Tien and stronger than Krillin: Well these quotes help prove he was weaker than Goku and/or Tien:
This was actually after Goku's match with Krillin and before his match with Tien. So before Goku had even shown off his true power (which he will not do until his battle with Tien) Roshi has already admitted that he may be inferior.
In this quote Tien is suprised that there is someone as good as Goku, remember that the last person he faced was Roshi, so he's pretty much saying Goku is better than Roshi here. As for why he's stronger than Krillin:
So why is this quote important considering he says it to Goku? Because Krillin (and Yamcha) were still training under Roshi, so he must know how strong they both are. If he's come to the tournament planning to win again he should be at least stronger than the 2 pupils he was trainer, whose strength he must have a good idea of. The next thing supporting this is actually Tien's fight agaisnt Yamcha. Which I know is kind of silly to bring up for why Roshi is stronger than Krillin, but I guess while I'm doing this I'll also explain why I think Krillin is equal to Yamcha It's all based on this quote:
I realize this isn't a whole lot to go on but it's the only quote we have comparing the two and nothing contradicts it as far as I can tell. So going back to Tien vs Yamcha: Tien beats Yamcha pretty easily. Whether or not Tien was using more power in his match with Roshi or not doesn't matter, the fact is he struggled much more agaisnt Roshi, so unless he was using less power this pretty much proves Roshi > Yamcha. And if Roshi is stronger than Yamcha and Yamcha is equal to Krillin then Roshi must be stronger than Krillin too, right? Since I already explained why I think Krillin ~ Yamcha there I'll just go straight to why I think Chaozu is weaker than Krillin/Yamcha and stronger than Man-Wolf. This one actually depends on if Chaozu's psychic powers are taken into account. If they are then Chaozu may be at the top of this list since he's proven his powers work on even Goku. So I won't think about the psychic powers here. This is another one where all my evidence basically comes from the fight itself. Whenever they were fighting physically there was no clear winner involved, but I think Krillin was shown to have the upper hand, forcing Chaozu onto he defensive more. This is what caused Chaozu to resort to his psychic powers in the first place. Krillin also dodged multiple Dodonpa's in a row, proving that his speed is at least faster than Chaozu's Ki attacks. Not to mention Krillin's first kamehameha ever (Or 2nd if you count the tiny one he did first to test it) almost knocked Chaozu out of bounds. Roshi even said that if it was a trained kamehameha it would have gave Krillin the win. We've seen before that kamehameha's at equal strengths don't really grant someone a win so easily.
I don't really have much to say for why he's stronger than Manwolf. It's based mostly on Jackie Chun's reaction to Manwolf (Treating him like a joke) while acknowledging Chaozu as a real threat. I may be able to find more for this later but I'm running out of time atm. So lastly why I think Man-Wolf is stronger than Panput: I think this one might actually be the most controversial and I'm not 100% set on it myself. I'm ready to change my opinion on this rather easily actually lol. But anyway the first thing to point out here is this quote:
A 30-dan in kenpo... From the little research I conducted, I found out that the highest real dan in kenpo is a 10th dan (Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong there via PM). Now if Man-Wolf is telling the truth this clearly surpasses the ordinary, yet Roshi groups Panput in as only being a master at the ordinary level. Other than that I don't think there's much going for them either way, so I'll have to leave it at that for now. |
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| REAL Son Goku | Jan 17 2013, 09:47 PM Post #3 |
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YO! I'm from Earth
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I agree with pretty much all of this. Can't think of much more to add. Your power chain was really good. |
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"I am the hope of the Universe! I am the answer to all living things that cry out for peace! I am protector of the innocent! I am the Light to the Darkness! I am truth. Ally to good! Nightmare to you!" Welcome to ~Super Saiyan Techs~ (On the Pojo.biz forums) YO! ~Ask Goku~ Thread - Ask me anything! | |
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| Alex D. Boss | Jan 17 2013, 09:51 PM Post #4 |
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Clearin won without seeming to break a sweat. Good job Goku lol. |
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| + Kyouks | Jan 17 2013, 10:08 PM Post #5 |
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Well, that's that. Lol. Nice job, will get this closed now. |
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