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super saiyan
Topic Started: Jan 16 2013, 07:49 PM (549 Views)
FamousBueller
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Super Asian

Ok we know when goku was fighting frieza and went ssj his power increased by 50x his base

But when goku went ssj against trunks/19/cell/etc everything about him was different then the first he went ssj

So I believe after the first time going ssj, he learned to control it and since ssj is a rage/anger boost the first time is 50x base and after controling it its 10x base

Now I don't see y ssj2 would be any different, gohan was so angry when he achieved it so I don't believe it would be 20x base, I would make it 100x base the first time

By buu saga, goku and vegeta seem to have ssj2 under control so I would just have that 20x base

Anyone agree?
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Zenet
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FamousBueller
Jan 16 2013, 07:49 PM
Ok we know when goku was fighting frieza and went ssj his power increased by 50x his base

But when goku went ssj against trunks/19/cell/etc everything about him was different then the first he went ssj

So I believe after the first time going ssj, he learned to control it and since ssj is a rage/anger boost the first time is 50x base and after controling it its 10x base

Now I don't see y ssj2 would be any different, gohan was so angry when he achieved it so I don't believe it would be 20x base, I would make it 100x base the first time

By buu saga, goku and vegeta seem to have ssj2 under control so I would just have that 20x base

Anyone agree?
It is because Goku was much weaker than Frizea so plot gave the SSJ a x50 but later it wasn’t necessary. and became x10 in android saga. and there’s evidence it went down to x2 in buu arc. I think SSJ2 is just double that of SSJ.
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90sDBZ
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Are you saying that SS1 is a potential unlocker so that it increases the power of base form once achieved for the first time and thus creating a smaller multiplier in future?
"The future of Gohan. The Future of Chi Chi. Not to mention the future of the entire universe. It all depends on me!!!! And I don't care if you're a million times stronger than me! I'm not going to let them down! So get ready Frieza because this time you're going Down!!!"
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FamousBueller
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Super Asian

90sDBZ
Jan 16 2013, 08:15 PM
Are you saying that SS1 is a potential unlocker so that it increases the power of base form once achieved for the first time and thus creating a smaller multiplier in future?
Well goku needed the anger/rage of krillins death to achieve ssj rite?

I know the answer is always "plot purposes" but there's other facts that can be stated

Goku went from 3 mil to 150 mil but by android saga piccolo told tien gokus power increased 10fold (anime not sure about manga)

Gohan went ssj2 and had enough power to kill all the cell jrs and make cell spit out 18 then ontop of that kill spc wit a 1 hand kamehameha but by the buu saga vegeta stated he had more power as a kid

So I'm thinkin
- ssj (first time): 50x base
- ssj (afterwards): 10x base
- ssj2 (first time): 100x base
- ssj2 (afterwards): 20x base
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lunar2
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gohan actually got weaker between cell and buu. he didn't train for 7 years.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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FamousBueller
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Super Asian

Did he lose power or did he just get rusty? I don't think he lost that much or any power just rusty

He still knew how to control ki and martial arts

He was 5 fighting nappa, vegeta, recoome and frieza and was pretty good at it
By the time he fought dabura and buu I don't think he would forget anything or lose power, just a lil rusty since he hasn't fought nobody on par or stronger than him for 7 years
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Alex D. Boss
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He losed power too , thats why Vegeta said that he was stronger when he was a kid.
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+ miguelnuva
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There is nothing that says out right the SSJ transformations go weaker.

If SSJ dropped to 10x Goku would have went back to Kaio-Ken or just used SSJ2 all the time.

SSJ= 50x base

SSJ2= 100x base

GT is the only time this formula is challenged or if you believe in the decreasing multiplier theory. I don't know why it's so hard to keep a 50x boost for SSJ and everyone wants to nerf it.
Posted Image Posted Image

Gogeta power placement
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Zenet
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miguelnuva
Jan 16 2013, 10:06 PM
There is nothing that says out right the SSJ transformations go weaker.

If SSJ dropped to 10x Goku would have went back to Kaio-Ken or just used SSJ2 all the time.

SSJ= 50x base

SSJ2= 100x base

GT is the only time this formula is challenged or if you believe in the decreasing multiplier theory. I don't know why it's so hard to keep a 50x boost for SSJ and everyone wants to nerf it.
Akira Toryama: ". At the time, it was made out that he was fifty times as strong when he became Super Saiyan, but that's a little extravagant. As far as my feelings as an author go, I think I drew it with the sense of it being a change of about ten times what he had been up until then."

and for the kioken "times" I would just asumme that got scrapped.


Edited by Zenet, Jan 16 2013, 10:22 PM.
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* Crashbreaka
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Captain Oblivious

I only agree with the 50x going down to 10x since it just fits better. I remember throwing some numbers around a while back and it was a damned nightmare trying to get everything to fit nicely.

I don't see why that has to affect the SSJ2 multiplier at all though. I just keep it static.
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lunar2
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if ssj = 50x base, then ssj3 = 50x ssj2, for one thing. initial base gotenks is as strong or stronger than ssj2 vegeta, and ssj gotenks is as strong or stronger than ssj3 goku.

there are other instances, as well, such as base saiyans being stronger than piccolo. it just doesn't fit any training model for them to improve 50x faster than he did, when piccolo has always been the one with the biggest training gains.

also, ssj is never implied to be a multiplier at all in the manga. there are no canon measurements of the boost ssj gives.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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