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21nd Budokai Power Chain
Topic Started: Jan 14 2013, 05:37 PM (947 Views)
Alex D. Boss
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Note: If you are not Tien Shinhan or Professor Gohan , Do NOT post in this Topic!

And if you dare to post I will....Ok.

Alright Prof , we can debate now , shall we?

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Professor Gohan
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You start off.
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Alex D. Boss
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Alright we are gonna discuss about the 21nd Budokai Power Chain , and I am going to give arguments about the chain.

Jackie Chun > Goku > Nam > Krillin > Giran > Bacterian > Ranfan > Yamcha

First I'm going to explain why Jackie > Goku:

Chapter: 48, P1.1
Announcer: “A breathtaking white-hot battle is unfolding in the finals! Currently it’s a completely even fight!”

As we know they were quite even.

Then after fighting for a while , Jackie uses Bankoku-Bikkuri-Sho. Its a technique for letting Goku lose and forfeit

Chapter: 50, P2.3-5, P3.1
Context: about to fire the Bankoku-Bikkuri-Sho
Kame-sennin: “I’m sorry, but you’ve lost this match. [ ] You’ll see why soon enough…There’s only been one person in my life who’s made me use this technique. You’ll be the second one…The first was Son Gohan…Your grandpa…”

I think that Roshi made this technique for win the match , after Goku put up a good fight against him , and Jackie wanted to win the budokai , otherwise Goku would be arrogance and wouldn't train harder for the next budokais

After Jackie blowing up the moon , he also loses quite a lot energy for FP KHH.

Chapter: 52, P4.1
Context: after firing the Max Power Kamehameha
Kame-sennin: “D-dammit…I used up a whole lot of energy…”

As the fight continues , both of them agreed about the double kick for final blow , as it follows:

Chapter: 52, P13.1-4
Kame-sennin: “Ultimately the martial arts come down to two bodies colliding together…In the end, the stronger person wins…It’s simple…[ ] Though having said that, I’m a little outclassed by Goku’s nimbleness…And with his small body and short legs, I can’t do a cobra suplex or square hold…!!”

Roshi makes it clear that the stronger one wins , by a actual ability.

And for the final nail , Krillin says that if Goku wasn't hungry he would've won , while Goku states that even if he wasn't hungry he would've lost anyway , and admits that Jackie Chun > Goku.

Chapter: 54, P5.1
Kuririn: “But Goku was so close! He would have won the championship if he hadn’t been hungry.”
Goku: “Nah, I think I woulda lost even if I hadn’t been hungry. That old-timer was super-duper strong.”

Now you can decide to agree or disagree with me. Goodluck Bro! :)
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Professor Gohan
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I agree with Jackie Chun>Goku; there's nothing I can counter for that.

However, I'm going to counter and say that Yamcha>Ran Fan.

Chapter: 37, P9.2
Kuririn: “Hey, Goku. This ‘Yamcha’ person is really strong, right?”
Goku: “Yeah! I fought him too, but he was so fast I couldn’t see him! He’s super-duper strong!”

Yamcha may be inferior to the top 3 contestants; Jackie, Goku, and Krillin, but from what Goku said above; I think that's enough to say that Yamcha may be indeed stronger than Ran Fan, who was not ever complimented on her strength, and had to rely on stripping in order to win her matches. Which, probably got more compliments than anything.
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Alex D. Boss
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It could be that Yamcha however may defeat Ranfan , but I see Yamcha losing as what I can explain why:

Ranfans strip technique is not ordinair I believe , because a serious concentrated Nam couldn't handle the technique even he knew he had to win the title for his village , which it was difficult concentrating for him to survive it.

As we can see , Ranfan was able to punch and kick Nam and was able to hurt him with her attacks.

From what I know is , that Yamcha is pretty weak when it comes to girls , and he wouldn't survive the strip move of Ranfan and would be kicked out the ring.

I'm going with Nam>Krillin as the follow reasons:

We know that Jackie>>Krillin , since Jackie basically won without too much effort against him respectively.

Nam pretty much fought a good battle against Goku and made him difficult as the follow quotes:

Chapter: 45, P8.5
Context: after jumping up about as high as Namu
Goku: “Rats! I put too much force into that!”

Means that Goku puts so much energy on that while Nam was just as high as him to use the attack.

Chapter: 45, P5.1-4
Context: after Goku gets up after being hit with the Tenku-Pekeji-Ken
Yamcha: “He stood up!”
Kame-sennin: “Wh…what kind of guy is he…?!”
Namu: “N…no, that can’t be…”

Nam and the rest shocked how Goku managed to stood up from that attack.

It shows most of us that Nam was a more dangerous fighter than Krillin at this point.
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Professor Gohan
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You say Yamcha is pretty weak when it comes to girls, but you also have to remember that his girlfriend is sitting in the stands rooting him on. Even if he does fall in a trance, I see it happening momentarily because I'm sure Bulma would make those arrangements(seriously). I see that being in the same boat as Nam having something to remind him to get his head back into the match. Different, unusual ways, but hey they can work.

I indeed saw that Ran Fan managed to make her punches and kicks give Nam a little sting; but Yamcha couldn't do the same with his Rogafufuken? Even though Nam may very well knock him out just as easy?

Which brings my next point to the table; I can agree that Nam was probably more dangerous than Krillin at that point, going by some of his feats. I think Nam and Krillin are both in a different league than Yamcha and Ran Fan; so what I'm getting at is.. Ran Fan(in a lower league) mange to get some surprising attacks on Nam that stung--Yamcha who is in that same lower league could probably do the same with an unexpected charging Rogafufuken.

My conclusion for everything I just said: She may catch him with her tricks, but he'll snap out of it just like Nam did. Him being more said of a fighter than her(a sneaky trickster) I think he can take her, since he has an actual attack to attack with; instead of just hoping for someone to fall out of the ring or kicking them out when they aren't mentally stable.
Edited by Professor Gohan, Jan 14 2013, 08:14 PM.
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Alex D. Boss
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You've got some good points though.

But Ranfan was able to hurt Nam and let him scream as hard as he could , which I doubt Yamcha could do, given the fact that he got beaten when Roshi waved his hand , When Ranfan damages Nam (who is superior to Yamcha) shows me Ranfan kicking Yamcha out the ring.

And the next point I want to give is Krillin>Giran>Bacterian:

Giran's feats:

Chapter: 39, P7.4, 8.2
Context: after Giran knocks him into the wall
Announcer: “Un-unbelievable! Despite being smacked with enough force to smash a wall, Contestant Son is completely fine!”
Goku: “I ain’t totally fine! That hurt a little!”

Considering that Roshi was surprised about Goku not being damaged by Giran's punch, and that Giran could take a hard kick to the gut from Goku, I'd say Giran>Yamcha . He also has superior techniques such as flight and the Guruguru Gum.

Bacterian's feats are:

Chapter: 35, P7.1-2
Yamcha: “H-he’s a tough one! He’s got fearsome physical strength! But even more fearsome is his ultra bad smell. It’s said he’s never bathed in his life…! His extreme stench makes people hold their nose without even thinking about it. This prevents his opponents from using their arms, leaving them vulnerable to his attacks…!”

As we saw Bacterian has also strong physical strength according to Yamcha , he was able to beat Krillin if he had a nose , Yamcha wouldn't survive it. Krillin>Bacterian>Yamcha

Krillin's feats :

Krillin > Yamcha, this is pretty much a fact , now:

Chapter: ,42 P4.1
Kame-sennin: “It’s been a long time since anyone’s managed to keep up with my speed…”

It seems that Krillin shows us how he is capable of keeping up with Jackie , Giran couldn't keep up with Goku before he forfeits.

This is after Jackie fought Krillin ( he saw the fights of Bacterian and Giran):

Chapter: 46, P6.1
Kame-sennin: “At any rate, those two are too strong. I thought that they just might win [the tournament]…”

Jackie states that Goku and Krillin would won the tournament if it wasn't for him (Note: this is before he saw Nam fighting Goku)

Conclusion: I believe that Krillin > Giran > Bacterian.


Edited by Alex D. Boss, Jan 14 2013, 09:38 PM.
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Professor Gohan
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Who is to say that Yamcha couldn't do the same to Nam? They never fought, so we can't be too sure. And, in DB the gaps shouldn't be huge in between everyone, so why couldn't Yamcha hit him with a Rogafufuken? Ran Fan got one shotted, so I'm not doubting that it couldn't happen to Yamcha. Keep in mind that Roshi could of done the same thing to her; just like Nam could do the same to Yamcha.

I don't have a problem with Krillin>Giran>Bacterian>Yamcha. It's just; I have Ran Fan as the weakest contestant at the tournament for reasons I stated already. So, I'd end up with: Jackie>Goku>Nam>Krillin>Giran>Bacterian>Yamcha>Ran Fan.

Yamcha and Ran Fan is the only ones we can still debate about, because I agree with you on the others. I'd honestly like to argue about Giran having a chance against Krillin; just like Yamcha would against Bacterian, but the quotes you provided may be enough to debunk that before I even get started.
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Alex D. Boss
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Professor Gohan
Jan 15 2013, 12:27 AM
Who is to say that Yamcha couldn't do the same to Nam? They never fought, so we can't be too sure. And, in DB the gaps shouldn't be huge in between everyone, so why couldn't Yamcha hit him with a Rogafufuken? Ran Fan got one shotted, so I'm not doubting that it couldn't happen to Yamcha. Keep in mind that Roshi could of done the same thing to her; just like Nam could do the same to Yamcha.


Ranfan was not one-shotted by Nam. In the beginning , Nam was somehow out of concentration and Ranfan punched him in his face , then again Ranfan tricked him and was able to punch him in his stomach as the result was that Nam screamed like he felt so much pain after that un-ordinair fist.

Professor Gohan
Jan 15 2013, 12:27 AM
I don't have a problem with Krillin>Giran>Bacterian>Yamcha. It's just; I have Ran Fan as the weakest contestant at the tournament for reasons I stated already. So, I'd end up with: Jackie>Goku>Nam>Krillin>Giran>Bacterian>Yamcha>Ran Fan.


The problem is that Yamcha didn't showed us how strong he was , its his fight against Jackie was like he couldn't hit him once and was defeated by Jackie's weak wind in 5 seconds.

Professor Gohan
Jan 15 2013, 12:27 AM
Yamcha and Ran Fan is the only ones we can still debate about, because I agree with you on the others. I'd honestly like to argue about Giran having a chance against Krillin; just like Yamcha would against Bacterian, but the quotes you provided may be enough to debunk that before I even get started.


Giran could have a chance against Krillin , but I don't think Giran could do any much against Jackie while Krillin showed us how strong he became after the training ,its only his Guruguru gum attack what Krillin should watch out.

If Bacterian could stand up after a few hits of Krillin ( who is superior to Yamcha ) without too much being hurt , that can show him above Yamcha.

Not to mention: The only thing we know about Yamcha's strength was when Goku said this:

Chapter: 37, P9.2
Kuririn: “Hey, Goku. This ‘Yamcha’ person is really strong, right?”
Goku: “Yeah! I fought him too, but he was so fast I couldn’t see him! He’s super-duper strong!”

But this was meant when Goku fought him in Pilaf saga , sure Goku couldn't saw his WFF back then.
Edited by Alex D. Boss, Jan 15 2013, 02:02 AM.
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Professor Gohan
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Eh, I don't have anything else; and we agree about everything else.
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+ Kyouks
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I take it that the debate has ended, then?
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Professor Gohan
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Yup. Good job Tien.
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Alex D. Boss
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Yeah pretty much , don't know whats gonna happening now.

Thanks Prof for this debate , it was fun with ya :)
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+ Kyouks
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Fine, then. I'll get a mod to lock this, and we'll announce the winner soon. Good job.
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Alex D. Boss
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I'm surprised that none of those fact checkers had to jump in.

That means that Prof and I , did a good job fairly :okay:
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