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SSJ2 Vegeta pre majin vs SSJ2 Kid Gohan
Topic Started: Jan 12 2013, 02:21 PM (2,556 Views)
+ Kyouks
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I would argue that Goku could easily one-shot Vegeta....the gap should at least be similar in magnitude to the one at the Cell Games, if not the exact same.
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Kamikaze Pyro
Jan 13 2013, 12:09 AM
miguelnuva
Jan 12 2013, 11:19 PM
I have pre Majin Vegeta 1% ahead of Kid Gohan and Goku 16% ahead of Gohan. I figured the gaps need to get bigger as the power levels increased so while Goku couldn't one shot Vegeta or Kid Gohan he had enough of a power gap over them to make Vegeta desperate enough to want the Majin boost.
You have Goku 15% over Vegeta at the Cell Games as a complete blow-out gap?
No that's my Buu saga gap.

Goku has SSJ3 so he would make less gains in MSSJ and SSJ2 then Vegeta would in the same forms.

Goku had 3 forms to work on with the SSJ3 form having drawbacks versus Vegeta training with just two forms so I think Vegeta's would be able to increase his power more from his Cell game self then Vegeta would.

Also Goku had a wall to overcome that Vegeta didn't hit just yet in the Cell games.
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miguelnuva
Jan 13 2013, 05:09 AM
Kamikaze Pyro
Jan 13 2013, 12:09 AM
miguelnuva
Jan 12 2013, 11:19 PM
I have pre Majin Vegeta 1% ahead of Kid Gohan and Goku 16% ahead of Gohan. I figured the gaps need to get bigger as the power levels increased so while Goku couldn't one shot Vegeta or Kid Gohan he had enough of a power gap over them to make Vegeta desperate enough to want the Majin boost.
You have Goku 15% over Vegeta at the Cell Games as a complete blow-out gap?
No that's my Buu saga gap.

Goku has SSJ3 so he would make less gains in MSSJ and SSJ2 then Vegeta would in the same forms.

Goku had 3 forms to work on with the SSJ3 form having drawbacks versus Vegeta training with just two forms so I think Vegeta's would be able to increase his power more from his Cell game self then Vegeta would.

Also Goku had a wall to overcome that Vegeta didn't hit just yet in the Cell games.
It's literally stated the gap is the same, so.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Oh dear the gap between Buu Arc Goku and Vegeta was the same as Cell Arc Goku and Vegeta? I'll have to change my viewset up then if that's the case. I was under the impression that the difference between SSj2 Kid Gohan and Ssj2 Vegeta wasn't that big but in this cae I'll have to change that view point.

Gohan wrecks Vegeta.
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Yeah man, that's always been the basis of our argument, y'know. Vegeta states that the gap is the same. Even if you have Vegeta catching up, the gap has to be at least similar to warrant that kind of comment. And there's no way Kid Gohan is being blown away by Boo Saga Goku like that, barring SSJ3.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

I must have gone up and overlooked that comment then. So yeah this fight is terribly outmatched now that I've gotten that line given to me. I didn't not realize that until now.

So SSJ2 Kid Gohan>>SSj2 Vegeta>>SSJ2 Adult Gohan now.

Curious, what's the gap between SSj2 Kid Gohan and SSj2 Goku/Majin Vegeta that you people have?
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Making Goku/Vegeta as low as I'd dare, and making Goku/Kid Gohan as high as I'd dare, I'd say say:

Goku - 100
Kid Gohan - 83
PM Vegeta - 75

More or less what I have now:

Goku - 100
Kid Gohan - 87
Vegeta - 72.5

Biggest I'd go for Goku/Vegeta, smallest I'd go for Goku/Kid Gohan:

Goku - 100
Kid Gohan - 89
Vegeta - 70
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When is is said the gap is the same?

That would make MSSJ Goku= to SSJ Vegeta almost and it makes Gohan and the boys much weaker than Goku.

Vegeta at most was 55 to 60% of Goku in the Cell games so if the gap was the same and Vegeta thinks Gohan is trash and the boys think Gohan is amazing how huge of a gap would there be between the boys and Goku?

Also How can Goku only be a little bit ahead of Gohan? If the gap is the same then MSSJ Goku should be knocking on SSJ2 Kid Gohan's door unless Goku and Vegeta made small gaps from Cell to Buu.

Also there is Vegeta's reactions to Gohan. Vegeta expects a challange from Gohan pre Budokai but post Budokai he is trash. This alone makes me think Vegeta has gotten ahead of Kid Gohan, not alot but just enough to where he can out skill him.

Vegeta's reaction makes me think he is expecting Gohan who is the same or a little weaker than his Cell games self not Trash.
Edited by miguelnuva, Jan 13 2013, 07:02 AM.
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Who said it's 55-60% at most? It can be as high as 70% if you want, I wouldn't even care if I saw 75%.

Positive we went over the gap being the same too multiple times before, surprised you forgot. But anyways, here:

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P10.3-4, P11.2-3
Context: after Goku and Vegeta fight a bit
Goku: “Un-unbelievable…I thought I trained considerably in the afterlife…But we’re completely even…You trained more than me…”
Vegeta: “…No, that’s not it…I think I did perform more special training than you, but you’re a greater genius than I am…No matter how much time passed, this gap wouldn’t change…I realized this, when you fought with that monster Babidi sent…It was a shock…That’s why I secretly resolved myself…[ ] At the tournament, the people who knew that pair who Babidi made into his underlings said that they had become far stronger than before…I remembered that, and I thought…That if I were taken over by him too, then the gap between you and me would vanish…And I was right…”
Edited by Kyouks, Jan 13 2013, 07:05 AM.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Yeah what he said above ^

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P10.3-4, P11.2-3
Context: after Goku and Vegeta fight for a while
Goku: “Un-unbelievable…I thought I trained considerably in the afterlife…But we’re completely even…You trained more than me…”
Vegeta: “…No, that’s not it…I think I did perform more special training than you, but you’re a greater genius than I am…No matter how much time passed, this gap wouldn’t change…I realized this, when you fought with that monster Babidi sent…It was a shock…That’s why I secretly resolved myself…[ ] At the tournament, the people who knew that pair who Babidi made into his underlings said that they had become far stronger than before…I remembered that, and I thought…That if I were taken over by him too, then the gap between you and me would vanish…And I was right…”

Vegeta already admit that the gap between them before the Majin Charm never changed even with the huge amount of training Vegeta did. The gap between Goku and Vegeta in the Cell Arc was implied to be huge just for Goku at 50%. I myself have some hefty gaps between Goku and Vegeta here.

Then there's the point where the difference between SSj2 Kid Gohan and SSJ2 Goku is implied to not be that big. Heck I could actually argue a bit that Gohan (Post KHH Burst)>SSJ2 Goku>SSj2 Kid Gohan if I wanted. The difference is the implied gap between Goku an Vegeta (Pre-Majin) is jsut far, far bigger than the implied gap between Goku and Gohan.
Edited by EMIYA, Jan 13 2013, 07:06 AM.
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Kid Gohan and Goku is still a solid gap, it isn't rivaling or anything, but it certainly isn't a LOLPWN like Goku/Vegeta.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Aye, I could see that based on the numbers you used and the gap you had when I asked before.
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Is that quote 10-& serious or is that Vegeta just talking about Goku being ahead of him. I think it could be interpreted as both.

Anyway, Vegeta is confident he can beat Goku and Cell when their fighting at the Cell games and then when they power up he is dumbfounded. This combined with the fact that MSSJ Goku 50% was over Trunks and Cell who were over ASSJ Vegeta at that point means SSJ Vegeta has a long way to over come so I don't think Vegeta is any where past 60% of Goku at that point.
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miguelnuva
Jan 13 2013, 07:20 AM
the fact that MSSJ Goku 50% was over Trunks
No, no he wasn't. Just because he doesn't act cocky about it doesn't mean he was behind. It isn't in his character to act like that. He's barely any different from Vegeta power-wise.

IMO, the gap doesn't have to be exactly the same, but it should at least be similar in magnitude. If you have 66% at CG, for example, you shouldn't raise it any higher than, say, 70%.
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Kiosko Iwannabegattsu
Jan 13 2013, 07:25 AM
miguelnuva
Jan 13 2013, 07:20 AM
the fact that MSSJ Goku 50% was over Trunks
No, no he wasn't. Just because he doesn't act cocky about it doesn't mean he was behind. It isn't in his character to act like that. He's barely any different from Vegeta power-wise.

IMO, the gap doesn't have to be exactly the same, but it should at least be similar in magnitude. If you have 66% at CG, for example, you shouldn't raise it any higher than, say, 70%.
MSSJ Goku was over USSJ Trunks.

As far as MSSJ being over SSJ Trunks(2nd trip) Trunks doesn't have to be cocky in order to suggest that he is around Goku or his Father at that point.

I really all comes down to the gap between Gohan, Goku and Vegeta. Vegeta thinks he can beat 50% Goku and is shocked at 100% Goku.

Cell needs to full speed to catch Gohan but suppressed Speed is almost too much for Goku and Goku's speed is almost too much for the Z fighters.

Vegeta at most is 70% of Goku at the Cell games while Gohan is about 20 to 25% ahead of Goku. Gohan is above the Speed that Cell was using against Goku so either Gohan is also over that Cell's power or Gohan being unwilling to fight is the reason Cell was able to beat him after increasing his Speed but let's do the numbers like I have above.

Buu saga pre Budokai Vegeta states that Gohan might make a good challenge but he doesn't know due to the times of peace. Vegeta is expecting Gohan at either the same strength or at most 10% of his power gone.

Gohan's power is then called weaker than his kid self and then trash as far as Vegeta is concerned and Goku agrees.

I will assume Goku isn't that far ahead of Kid Gohan but the only things we have to go bye are Vegeta saying "At least your stronger than you son was we he fought Cell" and then Piccolo comparing Gohan and Vegeta.

Full power Cell and up is so Big it all seems the same to the Z warriors so when Piccolo makes the comment we really have to think is it truth or is it just SSJ2 power is too big to Piccolo, I'll assume the former for right now and Goku is only a little ahead of Kid Gohan.

Now the finally how big of gaps do you think that one would need to be a little or a huge amount of power. Going off their SSJ2 power I have something like this.

Vegeta: 85

Kid Gohan: 84

Teen Gohan: 70

SPC: 83

Goku: 100

Vegeta(CG SSJ2): 56

Goku(CG SSJ2): 75

This makes the Goku and Vegeta gap more or less the same with still putting Vegeta ahead of Kid Gohan.



Edited by miguelnuva, Jan 13 2013, 07:58 AM.
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