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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 6 2013, 04:27 PM (3,337 Views) | |
| + miguelnuva | Jan 10 2013, 03:59 AM Post #61 |
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Vegeta trained in 300g if you can find a manga quote that he didn't then he didn't in till then he did. Your using a scene in the Buu saga to back up something that happened pre Andorid saga where things get changed all the time in DBZ. Goku says as a kid he could be in the time chamber for a month which is 10g but when he gets to King Kai's planet he can't stand in 10g. DBZ contradicts it's self all the time and there is nothing that shows Vegeta didn't train in 300g. |
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| + Pyrus | Jan 10 2013, 04:28 AM Post #62 |
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I'm sure spending almost a month in 10G is nothing after you've spent many more years in only 1G and then are basically forced to spend more months in 10G again. It'd be almost like you never experienced it before. |
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| lunar2 | Jan 10 2013, 07:23 PM Post #63 |
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i don't need to disprove him training in 300g, because it was never stated that he did in the first place. never. not once. not in the android saga, not in the buu arc. at no point is he ever shown training at any gravity other than 1g, 10g, and 150g. having a machine capable of those levels does not mean you can actually handle those levels. especially when it has been shown that no one else trains at those levels. @contradiction. that's not a contradiction with goku. as KP pointed out, he was in 10g for just 1 month, and then didn't experience it again for at least 5 years. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| + Clearin | Jan 10 2013, 07:28 PM Post #64 |
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It might not be flat out stated but you gotta admit it's heavily implied when Toriyama made a scene making Vegeta ask for one and then never saying he didn't (fully) use it. |
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| + Havoc_Wreaker | Jan 10 2013, 08:45 PM Post #65 |
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Popcorn
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so what vegeta android saga was strugging in base to train in 150 g by buu saga, the training would be not that effecive he would have gotten used to 150 g and would not be much of a challenge |
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| + Pyrus | Jan 10 2013, 09:04 PM Post #66 |
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Boy, I wish Kanzenshuu had their translations up. I'm sure there's an entry in the Daizenshuu stating Vegeta did actually train in 300G. |
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| lunar2 | Jan 10 2013, 10:39 PM Post #67 |
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if he had the physical strength to train effectively in 300g (which, again, makes him stronger than goku), then he would still have the same problem as at 150g. once he grew accustomed to it, it would apply only marginal benefits. it's not even enough of a benefit long term for anyone besides vegeta to use a gravity machine. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| + miguelnuva | Jan 11 2013, 03:33 AM Post #68 |
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It is stated, Vegeta says he wants 300G, and never says I didn't make it to 300G therefore even though it isn't shown nothing is shown to inform the reader Vegeta didn't get up to 300g. Half of DBZ's plot points take place off panel. |
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| lunar2 | Jan 12 2013, 06:45 PM Post #69 |
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alright. let me say this one more time. statement of the existence of a 300g machine is not a statement or implication of actual training at 300g. the absence of a denial is not a confirmation. 300g does not fit with the other strength based feats given, so not only is it not implied by events we are shown, it is also not supported by the framework given in the manga. we don't need a denial saying it didn't happen, we need a confirmation that it did happen, because it doesn't fit with the surrounding context. and 300g isn't even a plot point. it has no plot relevance, so there isn't even that to support the claim. in summary: it wasn't stated to have happened. it would contradict strength feats that are stated. it isn't relevant to the plot. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| + miguelnuva | Jan 12 2013, 11:28 PM Post #70 |
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Other than Goku not being able to lift the weights what strength feats contradict Vegeta training in 300g. If Vegeta asks for something and nothing says he didn't get to 300g then there is nothing that says he didn't make it to 300g. |
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| lunar2 | Jan 13 2013, 06:36 PM Post #71 |
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but there is nothing that say he did, either. goku's otherworld training is all that needs to be taken into account, but if you want more, goku on the way to namek was training in 100g, which puts his body weight at about 7.5 tons. however, during the 25th budokai saga, we see him training with 8 tons of weight at 10g, for a total weight of ~8.6 tons (more or less if you don't use the SEG numbers for goku's weight, but not more than 9 tons). vegeta training at 150g is 9.25 tons. at 300g he would be about 18.5 tons, or more than twice as heavy as what goku was training with. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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Jan 13 2013, 06:43 PM Post #72 |
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Chapter: 336 (DBZ 142), P11.3-5 Brief: “Huh!? You…you say you want me to make you a 300-times gravity room!?” Vegeta: “That’s right. It seems that Kakarot trained in 100-times gravity…I’m at least 3 times as much as him…” Brief: “Th…that’s crazy…Ve…Vegeta, if you weigh 60 kilos…then you’ll become eigh…18 tons….” We have nothing saying Briefs didn't that room, therefore he made it and Vegeta trained in it. Just my input. |
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| + Clearin | Jan 13 2013, 06:47 PM Post #73 |
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8 tons wasn't Goku's limit though. He was perfectly happy going higher when King Kai asked him to. We only know that 40 tons is too much for him, but it's possible he can handle around 20-30. |
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| lunar2 | Jan 13 2013, 06:55 PM Post #74 |
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he has weights that can weigh whatever he wants them to. if higher weight would have been more effective, he would have trained at higher weight. 8 tons is certainly not his limit, but it is the most effective weight for him. vegeta is already training at higher weight than that. the question isn't whether or not vegeta can move in 300g, obviously he could. the question is whether or not he could train in 300g, and the answer is no, he couldn't, unless he was stronger than goku, which he is not. in base, he would be too weak, and in ssj he would be too strong.
yes, dr. brief made the room. we see vegeta training in it. that's not the debate. the debate is whether or not vegeta trained in 300g. some people take the existence of the room as evidence that vegeta trained in 300g, but that is not the case. vegeta is only shown to train in 150g. 150g also just happens to give a weight for vegeta close to what goku trains in, so that number is definitely implied to be what vegeta trains in by context. there is no evidence that vegeta trained in higher gravity. there is no reason for vegeta to train in higher gravity. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| + miguelnuva | Jan 14 2013, 02:03 AM Post #75 |
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Vegeta's statement is enough. Gokju didn't go over 10 ton because he was doing a light spar not because he wanted to max out, plus the Buu saga comes after the Cell saga AT was writing a manga he didn't have time to think back to Vegeta had just used 300g in training. We have a statement that Vegeta wanted 300g so in AT's mind he had Vegeta train in 300g. I know you don't like to use the anime but in the anime we see the machine at 145 then 150g and it is going up and Dr. Brief says he would need time to get the machine that much higher. Edited by miguelnuva, Jan 14 2013, 02:04 AM.
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