Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Rotation Advertisements



We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum.


If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away.


Click here to Register!

If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk


If you're already a member please log in to your account:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
How come Gohan wasn't Mystic on Namek?
Topic Started: Dec 31 2012, 05:41 PM (3,206 Views)
+ Havoc_Wreaker
Default Avatar
Popcorn

mystic water brings out ur potenial power

same with gurus IF there is anything left that has not been brought out with training- he like the mystic water does not take it to an extreme

babiddi brings out ur power wayyyyy wayyyy behyond

and elder kaio does the same thing but wayyyy wayyyyy wayyyy wayyy beyond ,furthur then what babidi can do

and if u go by the daiz then ssj 3 brings out ur potenial powers too

and so does ssj4 if ya wanna include non cannon
Posted Image
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Celfoid
Default Avatar


I would guess that both Guru's unlock is not as potent as the Elder Kai's, and that the unlock only releases the potential to the highest that person can be at that time, not the highest they can ever be.

When Guru unlocks Kid Gohan's potential, he's making him as powerful as he can be at that time. Gohan's unlock easily gives him the power of an Elite Saiyan warrior, which for a half-breed child no older than 10, is pretty good (might be mistaken on his age there). I would also assume that the unlock affects the base state, and not the highest cap of that person's PL. Gohan is (supposedly, according to V-Jump?) at 200,000 before he takes on Frieza, which is a ridiculous jump in strength from his PL of 14,000 after having his power unlocked.

My guess is that the unlock brings the Base calm state of the person to it's highest level at that current moment, including transformations. That still leaves room for the energy increases seen in those experiencing high emotions, such as Goku/Vegeta and the Earthlings/Half-breeds.

So as Gohan gets older, his body matures and is capable of withstanding more, as well as growing appropriately. He also has far higher power than he did while on Namek, and when unlocking his full potential at this time, the resulting form has a proportionately higher increase than the one on Namek.

Sorry if I don't make too much sense. A little drunk. Happy new years all!
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
lunar2
Member Avatar


Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P9.1-5
Vegeta: “We can win! If the 3 of us fight together, we’ll be able to win somehow or another! [ ] It seems that even Freeza hasn’t noticed…These two’s battle power is steadily rising…The squirt in particular hides so much inner strength that he doesn’t even know it himself…”

Chapter: 297 (DBZ 103), P11.2
Context: after Gohan snaps and beats up second form Freeza
Vegeta: “Un…unbelievable…That brat…So he can draw out this much power when he goes into a frenzy and loses his reason…?! Don’t tell me that he’s the one closest to Super Saiyan…”

guru's potential release technique was not a full release. old kai's was a full release. so was babidi's spell, and so was the holy water. however, guru's release is still the best of the 5 potential release methods.

old kai's takes 24 hours to perform.

babidi's lets him manipulate your thoughts.

the holy water can kill you.

special training takes a long time.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Saiyan Femme
Member Avatar


lunar2
Jan 2 2013, 07:50 PM
Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P9.1-5
Vegeta: “We can win! If the 3 of us fight together, we’ll be able to win somehow or another! [ ] It seems that even Freeza hasn’t noticed…These two’s battle power is steadily rising…The squirt in particular hides so much inner strength that he doesn’t even know it himself…”

Chapter: 297 (DBZ 103), P11.2
Context: after Gohan snaps and beats up second form Freeza
Vegeta: “Un…unbelievable…That brat…So he can draw out this much power when he goes into a frenzy and loses his reason…?! Don’t tell me that he’s the one closest to Super Saiyan…”

guru's potential release technique was not a full release.
I doubt Elder Guru's technique is as good as Old Kai's, but the reason for that new power after Guru's power unlock was probably Gohan's near death experience when he fought Recoome.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Pyrus
Member Avatar


The zenkai would only take him so far. His power was still growing on its own.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Kyouks
Member Avatar


Gohan snapping at Freeza and tapping into more hidden power would have nothing to do with the zenkai as well.
Posted Image
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
lunar2
Member Avatar


a zenkai would increase all his power. it would not add new dormant power. the only thing shown to cause released power to become dormant again is time.

goku: full potential release at 15. transforms into an ssj at 24. ssj is implied to be a form of potential release in the manga, and stated as such in the daiz. if goku had no dormant ability, he would not have transformed. this is one reason for his slow power growth between 22nd budokai and 23rd budokai, since his power was becoming dormant again.

gohan. partial potential release at 5. partial potential release at 10. full potential release at 17. either gohan has a true power 1,000,000x his base power, or his power gradually became dormant again.

@power growth between guru and frieza. krillin's power was growing as well. krillin is not a saiyan, and therefore doesn't get zenkais. guru's technique therefore had a delayed effect.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Havoc_Wreaker
Default Avatar
Popcorn

well gohans became weaker over the 7 year period from cell to buu

so wouldn't some of his power become dormant again then
Posted Image
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
lunar2
Member Avatar


yes, released power becomes dormant again over time. the exception to this would probably be if the character continued to do special training, to maintain that power. so yeah, gohan got weaker because 1. he was actually losing power as his body lost its conditioning, and 2. the dormant ability he unlocked in the rosat through special training would have become dormant again.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Havoc_Wreaker
Default Avatar
Popcorn

over the 7 years how much power do u think gohan lost?

and how much do u think he lost over then ten year gap at the end ?


personally it seems that in the 7 years he did lose a decent amount , but i feel like he kept in shape a little so the effects werent as drastic as i think they were at eoz

plus that also might explain why he can go ssj again he lost the dormant power's in the new movie , so he cant go mystic but ssj instead.
Posted Image
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
lunar2
Member Avatar


i think he lost 30-40% of his power, and then gained some back in the month preceding the budokai. he ended up around CG goku's level. and yes, he definitely still did some light exercise, he wasn't getting fat or anything, but he would have lost the conditioning that he had at the cell games.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Saiyan Femme
Member Avatar


Kamikaze Pyro
Jan 2 2013, 08:28 PM
The zenkai would only take him so far. His power was still growing on its own.
Yeah but my point is, wouldn't the zenkai give him a new 'potential to unlock'?

Guru took out Gohan's hidden power, we can't say for sure but I think it's safe to assume that it wasn't all that could be brought out of him at that point, but even if Guru had brought out all of Gohan's potential at that moment, wouldn't the zenkai not only make him a little stronger but also give him a new 'dormant power'?
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
lunar2
Member Avatar


no. dormant ability doesn't work like that. normally, your power is divided into 2 parts. your base power, which is the power you can use, and your dormant power which is the power you can't use so that you don't accidentally hurt yourself. different races have different proportions of base and dormant power. a potential release simply moves the dividing line. so, for example, gohan after guru's potential release fully kicked in was probably using about 1/4 of his true power. before the potential release, he was using about 1/1000 of his true power. when he gets a zenkai, it just dumps in raw power, which would be divided up the same as his other power his base:dormant ratio wouldn't change. so, if mystic gohan got a zenkai, all that power would go to his base, because he has access to all his power.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
Default Avatar


I remember typing up some friggin' thesis on potential releases in DBZ which was like a hybrid of you two's theories.

Put simply, (IMO) potential releases are just shooting your power up to the nearest "wall" then breaking it. I get walls from Goku's statement after the RoSaT training that training more would do no good/it'd just be torturing his body. W/o potential releases, you can train until you hit your wall (like Goku and Gohan did), but training more would just be overexerting your body and the gains you'd make would be minimal. In that instance, you rest your body like Goku and Gohan did for the 10 days until you can train again.

Having a large potential just means you have a looooot of space between your walls. I.e. you can train a lot before you hit your wall and have to rest your body. And since potential releases just shoot you to the next wall, you gain a lot of power. Then there's a bunch of other stuff like zenkais and transformations bringing down that wall but not necessarily increasing your power to where it was.

All walls have more walls after them because there're no permanent limits in DBZ, as evidenced by the series.
Edited by Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs, Jan 3 2013, 12:17 AM.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
lunar2
Member Avatar


K.O.A.N Antirebel
Jan 3 2013, 12:17 AM
I remember typing up some friggin' thesis on potential releases in DBZ which was like a hybrid of you two's theories.

Put simply, (IMO) potential releases are just shooting your power up to the nearest "wall" then breaking it. I get walls from Goku's statement after the RoSaT training that training more would do no good/it'd just be torturing his body. W/o potential releases, you can train until you hit your wall (like Goku and Gohan did), but training more would just be overexerting your body and the gains you'd make would be minimal. In that instance, you rest your body like Goku and Gohan did for the 10 days until you can train again.

Having a large potential just means you have a looooot of space between your walls. I.e. you can train a lot before you hit your wall and have to rest your body. And since potential releases just shoot you to the next wall, you gain a lot of power. Then there's a bunch of other stuff like zenkais and transformations bringing down that wall but not necessarily increasing your power to where it was.

All walls have more walls after them because there're no permanent limits in DBZ, as evidenced by the series.
the nature of dormant ability isn't a theory, it is a stated fact in the manga

Chapter: 488 (DBZ 294), P4.9, P5.1-2
Context: after Gohan’s unintentional display of power
Goku: “…Am…amazin’…So he really wasn’t just some regular dirty old geezer?...*talking to Kaioshin* ‘Do-dormant ability’…That’s a person’s true power, that they have hidden all along…Right?”
Kaioshin: “Ye-yeah…I-I think so…”
Goku: “Mu-must be…Man, Go-Gohan…Just how the heck much power is he hidin'?...”

relevant text bolded. potential releases do not increase your power, they give you access to the power you already have. old kai and babidi might actually be adding power in, since they both refer to taking people "beyond their limits", but goku's statement here seems to imply that gohan actually had all that power to begin with, and old kai is just doing a potential release, not adding new power. in that case, the limit old kai and babidi refer to is the limit dividing base power from dormant power, not the limit of the person's true power.

@training limits. there is no limit to training gains, as far as ki goes. goku had perfected his physical body, and so the extreme conditions of the rosat no longer benefited him.

Chapter: 391 (DBZ 197), P1.3-4, P2.1-4
Context: talking about the Room of Spirit and Time
Vegeta: “Well, well…So even the great Kakarot admits defeat against the rigors of that room…”
Goku: “Maybe…But pointlessly toughening up my body more than this is just torture, not training. But I won’t object if you guys enter that room again. It looks like you still have room left to toughen up more.”
Vegeta: “What was that…? I don’t like that…The way you said that made it sound like you’re saying that your true ability is greater than mine…”
Goku: “Yeah, a whole lot greater, I think.”

see, he wasn't saying that training at this point was just torture, but that pointlessly toughening up his body (i.e. doing physical exercises) wasn't beneficial. now, yes, ki gains from training sow down drastically once your body reaches its peak, but that is simply because conditioning your body is the fastest way to gain ki, not because there is any limit on how much ki you can gain.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
0 users reading this topic
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums. Reliable service with over 8 years of experience.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Dragon Ball/Z Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2

Theme Designed by McKee91