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| Daizenshuu Misconceptions | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 12 2012, 06:54 PM (5,374 Views) | |
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Oct 12 2012, 07:54 PM Post #16 |
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That would make sense if Cell didn't specifically say that the cluster of cells that make up the core are in his head. And we know that ki vaporizes, so there goes that theory. |
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| + Pyrus | Oct 12 2012, 08:02 PM Post #17 |
 
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Does this explanation work?
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Oct 12 2012, 08:16 PM Post #18 |
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Who's that from? Lol. And it could work. This is coming from Viz, so bear with me: "There is a small group of cells in my head that make up my core." "If that cluster isn't destroyed my body can go on regenerating even from microscopic remains." However, this is the tricky part. The "core" was vaporized. So how is Cell himself going to regenerate if said core doesn't tell the rest of his body to regenerate? Unless every cell in Cell's body is self aware, then the theory, IMO, doesn't work. |
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| + Pyrus | Oct 12 2012, 08:26 PM Post #19 |
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Yeah, but the nucleus is microscopic. Utterly tiny. It's possible it wasn't destroyed in the blast. |
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Oct 12 2012, 08:29 PM Post #20 |
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I don't think it did. Gohan's KHH vaporized all of Cell's...cells. So, theoretically, if the same attack does the same thing, it would vaporize all cells above his head? I don't know what to think any more. But that theory you posted works if the cells of the core weren't truly vaporized, or his cells are self aware. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Oct 12 2012, 09:02 PM Post #21 |
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Izanagi!
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I heard a theory saying that he can move his Nucleus to different parts of his body, but this not implied or suggested. |
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| + Pyrus | Oct 13 2012, 04:23 AM Post #22 |
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I've also heard a theory that he had a backup nucleus in his lower body. I don't care much for the Cell thing TBH. I'm just fine with it being a plothole or oversight on AT's part. If we can't use the gag excuse, then Goku taking Boss Rabbit to the moon is truly a plothole, although I doubt AT was thinking like that back then. Still though. Would Boo being able to use the full 30 minutes of Fusion count as a plothole? Gotenks could only use it for 5 while he was by himself. Perhaps Boo just eliminates the stamina drain, hence the longer Fusion time? |
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| + Kyouks | Oct 13 2012, 07:15 AM Post #23 |
 
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So Grid's epic Daiz thread is now a thread for manga plotholes?  As for Gotenks-Boo, there are a few ways to explain it. 1 - He can access all of his "absorbee's" power regardless of their current form in his body. Chances are, Gotenks was unconscious in there, so him being an SSJ3 may not be so likely; thus, Boo somehow accessed all the power in his body. But this would imply that Piccolo > SSJ kids, because if Boo could access all of his absorbee's powers regardless of form, he'd have been accessing the kids' SSJ power as Piccolo-Boo; every other implication of the kids' strength puts them above Piccolo before this though, so I wouldn't use this theory unless you stubbornly have Piccolo > Post-RST kids for whatever reason.... 2 - Elimination of the stamina drain is what I roll by these days. He's (Boo's) got infinite stamina himself, and technically, it isn't as though Gotenks himself is actively using the power of his SSJ3, given that he's unconscious; Super Boo integrated that power into his body (sorta stating the obvious right there) so that his body would be the one completely in control of it, so long as Gotenks is there to supply the power for him; so, because he has Gotenks' SSJ3 power in his own body, he can effectively use that power along with the infinite stamina of his own body, without the constraints of Gotenks' bodily functions.. Unnecessarily elaborate post ftw. Spoiler: click to toggle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As for Cell, Herms has this for him: Chapter: 413 (DBZ 219), P10.1, P11.3-4, P12.1 Context: after regenerating from his self-destruction Cell: "There's a small clump inside my head...This makes up my nucleus...As long as that clump isn't destroyed, my body can continue regenerating...When I self-destructed, my nucleus fortunately remained uninjured...Quite frankly, I hadn't calculated on being able to regenerate...I was lucky...And even more happily, my body regenerated as my perfect form, even without No.18...And it wasn't merely my perfect form: I had vastly powered up like Son Gohan...This was probably done by the Saiyan cells, which greatly increase in power when they are saved from the brink of death...And I even managed to learn Son Goku's Teleportation...So in short, I was able to return here, having become even more perfect. It seems that rather than defeat me, Son Goku has given me several presents." ^So, the nucleus is definitely in his head, and he was definitely very lucky that a part of the clump survived the explosion. Cell's nucleus surviving after Goku's KHH seems unlikely and wouldn't matter; it was his lower body that regenerated. I guess we'll really have to accept it as a plothole.....but perhaps the theory KP posted could work, too. However, it's still odd given the fact that his regeneration comes from Namekians. But perhaps this can shed some light: Chapter: 380 (DBZ 186), P2.4 Context: when asked if his perfect form could beat Vegeta Cell: "Power! Speed! Technique! Brains! Mental Strength! I will be perfect in every way! That's what the computer told me!!" ^Now, I don't know if Namekian regeneration would be considered a technique or a characteristic, although I'd consider it a technique. It's possible that as he neared 'perfection', the programming inside him figured that regen so long as your head is intact isn't exactly the definition of 'perfect'. It's possible that once he became perfect, his regeneration ability exceeded that of the Namekians, and then the theory KP posted can work perfectly (it'd still be a bit imperfect, as he'd still be done if his core was gone, as that theory states that at microscopic level, only the core can regenerate; however, that'd also fit into Cell's pure luck statement that his core just so happened to survive...). Summed up: - Upon achieving perfection, his ability to regenerate exceeded that of the Namekians. - Post-Goku's KHH, he had a considerable chunk of organic matter left, which was also noted to still contain a lot of chi; thanks to his higher level of regen, this wasn't a problem. - Post-Self Destructing, he had next to no organic matter left, next to no chi, and it was all at a microscopic level; he wasn't 'perfect' enough to regenerate from that. But luck played it's part, and the core survived. Since his core was intact, he regenerated even at this stage. One more thing; people would argue that "well, how could Piccolo regenerate if he was at a microscopic level? Would it matter if he had his core?" Personally, core or not, I don't see Piccolo regenerating from microscopic matter. But Cell can. This could be attributed to two things: a) The whole "Cell being more perfect than others" thing. b) Freeza's cells which allowed Cell to survive despite being a clump of nucleus; he regenerated afterwards. Had this happened to Piccolo, he'd have just died from blood loss, loss of organs, etc. ^This last bit was unnecessary, but I felt like it might as well be addressed here and now. Edited by Kyouks, Oct 13 2012, 07:58 AM.
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| lunar2 | Oct 13 2012, 04:18 PM Post #24 |
 
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@bardock. planet vegeta has very high gravity, it may just have an atmosphere that far out. @moon. so DB moon has an atmosphere. notice that boss rabbit, his human minions, and the rabbits that live on the moon all breathe just fine. no plot hole, just different planetary characteristics than RL moon. @goku's zenkai. vegeta got 2 of those super zenkais that totaled a much larger percentage increase than goku. it's a hax, but it's not a plothole. @goten and trunks. as you pointed out, that interview doesn't make sense. but it was implied in the manga that trunks' tail was removed (krillin specifically asked bulma about it, and she laughed, then yamcha butted in and said something unrelated). it was deliberately left vague, but the tail being removed is the only logical explanation. @cell. cell was likely referring to namekian regeneration, which is the basis for his own. but frieza's race clearly has a very durable biology that likely has redundant organs. core based regeneration + redundant organs = more than one core. the plothole is that the super intelligent cell didn't realize what had happened. @buutenks. being unconscious probably removed part of the strain of the ssj3 form. we do see that after defusing, trunks and goten are just as drained as after any other ssj3 transformation, though, since even piccolo was stronger than them then, so it's just weird, however you look at it. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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Oct 13 2012, 05:29 PM Post #25 |
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So the they all just held their breath while the power pole lifted them into space? IIRC, there's a Toriyama interview where he says that when the moon was destroyed, the Rabbit was floating around in space, which proves the moons atmosphere redundant. You see why this is hard to believe, right? |
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| lunar2 | Oct 13 2012, 05:57 PM Post #26 |
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yes. they held their breath in space, and it took them less than 30 seconds to get from the earth's atmosphere to the moon's atmosphere. i've never heard of the interview you mentioned, so i can't comment on that. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| + Clearin | Oct 13 2012, 06:10 PM Post #27 |
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I've heard of it. The breathing isn't even the only problem, space would be too cold for any human (and I assume Saiyan judging by Goku's first time with snow) to live in. |
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| lunar2 | Oct 13 2012, 06:23 PM Post #28 |
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it's not the temperature that kills you. it's the vacuum. all the water in your body instantly starts boiling as soon as you hit vacuum. 30 seconds later, you're dead. but that just means they only have 30 seconds to get from the earth's atmosphere to the moon's, which means that the power pole can extend very rapidly when it needs to. i'm not saying that that scene makes any sense from a real world perspective. i'm just saying it isn't a plothole, because it doesn't contradict anything else in the plot. that's what people don't get. things that don't make sense aren't plotholes. plothole specifically refers to when one plot element directly contradicts another. if there is an explanation for an apparent cotradiction, then there is no plothole. it doesn't even matter if the explanation is supported by the work, as long as it is possible. the moon having a breathable atmosphere is possible, because it's never stated that it doesn't. the power pole getting goku and the others through the vacuum between the two atmospheres in a survivable time is possible, because nothing ever implies a speed limit on the expansion. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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Oct 13 2012, 06:28 PM Post #29 |
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this here/ my opinion has always been that it was a guide for the ANIME. its a guide for the anime adaptation, an adaptation/ retcon toriyama was involved in. however, alot of the anime/movie stuff IS contradictory about major events, deaths etc... explaining things that dont need explaining, ADDINg stuff, it still does seem like OPINION, if its all based on what these guys saw in the movies. We ALL watched the movies, so unless they were directly involved and there is something they ARENt telling? i dont think it gives them very good credibility at all. Not IMHO. Makinjg up stuff like forms, and situations that dont NEED to exist in order for things to happen is ridiculous. if they correlate with the movie, then be a companion for THAT movie. Tell what happened, but dont tell me stuff i didnt see. Like RSSj broly. making that form up and explaining HOW this happened makes no sense. its a total hype up for broly. and that why the daiz says miracle punch, acting like goku doesnt have any kill moves in his repetoire other than his favorite kiai weapon, the kame blast. The kame blast was an invention by roshi, that really was NOT meant to kill. He had so many other LETHAL killing techniques that they didnt bother getting into them, but roshi in DB had a variety of powers and techniques, ones im SURE goku learned. The mfuba alone would kill or incapacitate broly, that was made to capture a demon god. other techniques roshi showed were ALL lethal. The kame blast CAN be lethal but its not meant to be. So by far its NOT gokus best weapon. Just his most commonly used. almost a cover all bases type deal. so broly surviving a kame blast and not a punch MEANt to go through his body tells me all i need to know. once goku got his hands on broly it was over, for the entire fight did goku or anyone else manage to not even TOUCH broly (seriously) and then when goku FINALLy gets his hands on him he MAKES him explode!! all part of the plan. Goku said he knew what to do. thats NOT a miracle. He killed broly cause he had to. His survival into movie 10 is a retcon. Edited by Paikuan extreme, Oct 13 2012, 06:30 PM.
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| + Pyrus | Oct 13 2012, 06:30 PM Post #30 |
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But it's not a companion for the anime. There are TV animation books, D6 is specifically for the movies, and D7 includes the manga and anime, but the others are specifically for the manga. |
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