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SSjin 3 Gogeta vs. Gotenks-Boo
Topic Started: Oct 4 2012, 01:49 PM (8,067 Views)
* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

No way bro. He's Gogeta, he's a fusion of entities from both the world of the living and the world of the deceased. He's a fusion of the two strongest and best characters in the series.

Are you doubting his prowess by suggesting that he couldn't do something so pathetically simple as Kaioken x10 in SSJ3?
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Slayerslice
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We never know until they try it.
I still remember Goku struggling with x4, on Namek he could do x20.

He has a much stronger body now.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

SSJ3 strain
Fusion time limit 5 minutes
Finds it difficult to gather energy.

Sure, he'll do it easily.
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Slayerslice
Oct 4 2012, 10:31 PM
We never know until they try it.
I still remember Goku struggling with x4, on Namek he could do x20.

He has a much stronger body now.
Then the humans and Piccolo could perform Kaio-ken as well but just didn't because it wouldn't have made any difference. I can do that, you know, if we're making things up now.
Edited by Pyrus, Oct 4 2012, 10:38 PM.
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+ Kyouks
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I might end up double posting here, but I doubt it. In any case:

Chapter: 473 (DBZ 279), P2.1-6
Context: after Goten and Trunks turn into Super Saiyans
Goku: "Alright! Now then, gather your ki up to your utmost limits. All the way full!"
Trunks: "Hehe...Alrii-iight. Let's freak 'em out, Goten."
Goten: "Yeah....hihihi..."
*they power up*
Piccolo: "Gu...!"
Goku: "Alright, so that's full?"
Goten: "Huh!?"
Trunks: "Ye-yeah..."

Chapter: 468 (DBZ 274), P12.7
Piccolo: "These two are our only hope...! Th-though it's a faint hope..."
Note: this is before Fusion is mentioned

This, coupled with Piccolo being blown away by the power of Goten/Trunks, establishes SSJ Goten/Trunks > Piccolo; if this wasn't the case, then Piccolo would be their last hope, not the kids.

The quote that shows that the kids are also comparable to Gohan has been brought up numerous times, but here:


Chapter: 427 (DBZ 233), P12.3-6
Context: after Gohan and Goten spar a little bit
Gohan: "You're very gifted at grappling too, Goten! You really surprised me! I hadn’t known you were that good! If you train well, maybe you'll be able to enter the Tenkaichi Budoukai too!"
Goten: "Really!? But Trunks is even stronger than me. We play-fight together!"
Gohan: "Really!? That's how you guys have been playing?...*thinking* If I'm not careful, I'll be outstripped...by these little squirts..."

Many people like the argument that "Goten potentially surpassing Gohan means he'll do it in several years or suttin'". The problem with that argument is, if Goten was 10x weaker than the likes of Gohan, then why would Gohan be having such thoughts of being surpassed at this stage at all? He'd only be mildly impressed if Goten was so weak.

SSJ Gohan > SSJ Trunks > SSJ Goten >/>> Piccolo.

Let's move on to post-RST Gotenks.


Chapter: 487 (DBZ 293), P13.4-5
Context: after evil Boo shows up and demands to fight Gotenks
Piccolo: "Go hit Trunks and Goten to wake them up, and take them into the Room of Spirit and Time...! Even in just 1 hour, they'll be able to do 15 days worth of training."
Kuririn: "Heh!? If we do it now..."
Piccolo: "Can't you tell...?! As they are now, even if they perform Fusion they can't win, no doubt about it...! Tell them that if they don't want to die while they're still just little brats, then they should train as much as they can...!"

Initial Super Buu >>> SSJ Gotenks pre > SSJ3 Goku

Chapter: 489 (DBZ 295), P7.5
Context: as Gotenks is about to fight Boo
Piccolo: "Pl-please...Let there be a miracle..."

Initial Super Buu >> SSJ Gotenks (post, expected) > SSJ Gotenks pre > SSJ3 Goku.

Chapter: 489 (DBZ 295), P11.5
Context: seeing Gotenks after he'd trained in the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: "He-he really is different...! He really has greatly powered up...! Th-this just might...!"

Chapter: 490 (DBZ 296), P5.3
Piccolo: "Oh! So he can become a Super Saiyan even after Fusion?!"


Chapter: 495 (DBZ 301), P6.1-3, P7.1-3
Context: after Gotenks blasts Boo with the Rapid-Fire Die-Die Missiles and Piccolo stops him
Gotenks: "Well, whatever. I already did quite a lot, after all. He should be pretty weakened."
*Boo comes out*
Gotenks: "...He ain't weakened....This really pisses me off!"
Piccolo: "N-no...He is weakened...I don't know about physically, but he's weakened a little mentally...! Th-this is the first time...that he's fought someone strong like you...He's feeling flustered by someone whose strength is at least on par with his own..."
Gotenks: "Dehhehheh! So in other words, Majin Boo's freaked out, huh!? That's right! My strength ain't half-assed! I'm the best in the universe!"
Piccolo: "Don't let your guard down! He'll be coming at you frantically now...!"
Gotenks: "Dahhahhah, that's no problem, no problem at all! That's just what I was hoping for!!

SSJ3 Gotenks post > Super Buu >>> SSJ2 Gotenks post >>> SSJ Gotenks post >>>>> Base Gotenks post >> SSJ Gotenks post, expected >/>> SSJ Gotenks pre >/~ SSJ3 Goku.

^ Now, perhaps I went overboard, but this is mostly to burn any darn argument of Gotenks' power for the 1000th time, I'm sure.

Super Buu + Gotenks is pretty much 1+1 = 2, so Super Buu * 2 = Buutenks.

Goten and Trunks are above Piccolo and comparable to Teen Gohan. Majin Vegeta and SSJ2 Goku aren't too far ahead of Teen Gohan because of Piccolo's "perhaps" quote. So, unless you believe that Teen Gohan lost over 60% of his power, Gogeta isn't 10x stronger than Gotenks.

There was also only a decent gap between Teen Gohan and Goten/Trunks. I don't think it's too far-fetched to say that they are on par with Teen Gohan at the absolute minimum post-RST.

So tell me, are Goku and Vegeta 10x that when in the same form? Is SSJ Goku 10x SSJ Goten? Because you'd basically be suggesting:

SSJ Goku ~ 1000
SSJ Kid Gohan ~ 800
SSJ Gohan ~ 130
SSJ Goten ~ 100

^ Do you see how ridiculous that looks after looking through statements and getting over your bias?

Lastly:



Chapter: 503 (DBZ 309), P8.8
Context: Goku tries to get Vegeta to use the Potara with him, but Vegeta refuses
Goku: "Knowing you, I thought you might say that...! There ain't any other way to beat Majin Boo!"

Vegetto >>>> Buuhan >/>> Gogeta.
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Fourth Doctor Who
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Mark of the Crimson Dragon

SSjin 2 Gogeta would have been enough to beat Gotenks-Boo. SSjin 3 Gogeta stomps him very hard.
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Slayerslice
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Kyouka Suigetsu
Oct 4 2012, 10:39 PM
I might end up double posting here, but I doubt it. In any case:

Chapter: 473 (DBZ 279), P2.1-6
Context: after Goten and Trunks turn into Super Saiyans
Goku: "Alright! Now then, gather your ki up to your utmost limits. All the way full!"
Trunks: "Hehe...Alrii-iight. Let's freak 'em out, Goten."
Goten: "Yeah....hihihi..."
*they power up*
Piccolo: "Gu...!"
Goku: "Alright, so that's full?"
Goten: "Huh!?"
Trunks: "Ye-yeah..."

Chapter: 468 (DBZ 274), P12.7
Piccolo: "These two are our only hope...! Th-though it's a faint hope..."
Note: this is before Fusion is mentioned

This, coupled with Piccolo being blown away by the power of Goten/Trunks, establishes SSJ Goten/Trunks > Piccolo; if this wasn't the case, then Piccolo would be their last hope, not the kids.

The quote that shows that the kids are also comparable to Gohan has been brought up numerous times, but here:


Chapter: 427 (DBZ 233), P12.3-6
Context: after Gohan and Goten spar a little bit
Gohan: "You're very gifted at grappling too, Goten! You really surprised me! I hadn’t known you were that good! If you train well, maybe you'll be able to enter the Tenkaichi Budoukai too!"
Goten: "Really!? But Trunks is even stronger than me. We play-fight together!"
Gohan: "Really!? That's how you guys have been playing?...*thinking* If I'm not careful, I'll be outstripped...by these little squirts..."

Many people like the argument that "Goten potentially surpassing Gohan means he'll do it in several years or suttin'". The problem with that argument is, if Goten was 10x weaker than the likes of Gohan, then why would Gohan be having such thoughts of being surpassed at this stage at all? He'd only be mildly impressed if Goten was so weak.

SSJ Gohan > SSJ Trunks > SSJ Goten >/>> Piccolo.

Let's move on to post-RST Gotenks.


Chapter: 487 (DBZ 293), P13.4-5
Context: after evil Boo shows up and demands to fight Gotenks
Piccolo: "Go hit Trunks and Goten to wake them up, and take them into the Room of Spirit and Time...! Even in just 1 hour, they'll be able to do 15 days worth of training."
Kuririn: "Heh!? If we do it now..."
Piccolo: "Can't you tell...?! As they are now, even if they perform Fusion they can't win, no doubt about it...! Tell them that if they don't want to die while they're still just little brats, then they should train as much as they can...!"

Initial Super Buu >>> SSJ Gotenks pre > SSJ3 Goku

Chapter: 489 (DBZ 295), P7.5
Context: as Gotenks is about to fight Boo
Piccolo: "Pl-please...Let there be a miracle..."

Initial Super Buu >> SSJ Gotenks (post, expected) > SSJ Gotenks pre > SSJ3 Goku.

Chapter: 489 (DBZ 295), P11.5
Context: seeing Gotenks after he'd trained in the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: "He-he really is different...! He really has greatly powered up...! Th-this just might...!"

Chapter: 490 (DBZ 296), P5.3
Piccolo: "Oh! So he can become a Super Saiyan even after Fusion?!"


Chapter: 495 (DBZ 301), P6.1-3, P7.1-3
Context: after Gotenks blasts Boo with the Rapid-Fire Die-Die Missiles and Piccolo stops him
Gotenks: "Well, whatever. I already did quite a lot, after all. He should be pretty weakened."
*Boo comes out*
Gotenks: "...He ain't weakened....This really pisses me off!"
Piccolo: "N-no...He is weakened...I don't know about physically, but he's weakened a little mentally...! Th-this is the first time...that he's fought someone strong like you...He's feeling flustered by someone whose strength is at least on par with his own..."
Gotenks: "Dehhehheh! So in other words, Majin Boo's freaked out, huh!? That's right! My strength ain't half-assed! I'm the best in the universe!"
Piccolo: "Don't let your guard down! He'll be coming at you frantically now...!"
Gotenks: "Dahhahhah, that's no problem, no problem at all! That's just what I was hoping for!!

SSJ3 Gotenks post > Super Buu >>> SSJ2 Gotenks post >>> SSJ Gotenks post >>>>> Base Gotenks post >> SSJ Gotenks post, expected >/>> SSJ Gotenks pre >/~ SSJ3 Goku.

^ Now, perhaps I went overboard, but this is mostly to burn any darn argument of Gotenks' power for the 1000th time, I'm sure.

Super Buu + Gotenks is pretty much 1+1 = 2, so Super Buu * 2 = Buutenks.

Goten and Trunks are above Piccolo and comparable to Teen Gohan. Majin Vegeta and SSJ2 Goku aren't too far ahead of Teen Gohan because of Piccolo's "perhaps" quote. So, unless you believe that Teen Gohan lost over 60% of his power, Gogeta isn't 10x stronger than Gotenks.

There was also only a decent gap between Teen Gohan and Goten/Trunks. I don't think it's too far-fetched to say that they are on par with Teen Gohan at the absolute minimum post-RST.

So tell me, are Goku and Vegeta 10x that when in the same form? Is SSJ Goku 10x SSJ Goten? Because you'd basically be suggesting:

SSJ Goku ~ 1000
SSJ Kid Gohan ~ 800
SSJ Gohan ~ 130
SSJ Goten ~ 100

^ Do you see how ridiculous that looks after looking through statements and getting over your bias?

Lastly:



Chapter: 503 (DBZ 309), P8.8
Context: Goku tries to get Vegeta to use the Potara with him, but Vegeta refuses
Goku: "Knowing you, I thought you might say that...! There ain't any other way to beat Majin Boo!"

Vegetto >>>> Buuhan >/>> Gogeta.
Vegeta was mad at Goku, even when they were in Buu's body they didn't fuse.
He didn't mention the permanent part until the very end when Buuhan was rushing to them.
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^ What's your point?
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Slayerslice
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They had time to perform fusion dance? Idk.
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Slayerslice
Oct 4 2012, 10:56 PM
They had time to perform fusion dance? Idk.
Precisely! They had time to perform Fusion before Gohan-Boo got to them, yet they didn't, even though they both knew the dance!
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He explicitly stated that Potara was the only way to beat Gohan-Boo.

Btw your post just helped our cause as KP pointed out...
Edited by Kyouks, Oct 4 2012, 10:59 PM.
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Slayerslice
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That solidifies nothing, if they wanted Gogeta SSJ3 the production team showed them, but Gogeta was already showed in the Movie earlier, Vegetto came in his place.
Even when they were inside Buu.

There has to be some othe reason for Gogeta not to be in the anime.
Edited by Slayerslice, Oct 4 2012, 11:02 PM.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Grasping at straws. Watching you troll has been fun, but I'm afraid its all over my friend.
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Slayerslice
Oct 4 2012, 11:01 PM
That solidifies nothing, if they wanted Gogeta SSJ3 the production team showed them, but Gogeta was already showed in the Movie earlier, Vegetto came in his place.
No matter what happened at production, we got what we got. Thus, we use what we got.

Your arguments are the ones that solidify nothing, if you can even call them arguments.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Want to know the reason why Gogeta isn't in the anime?

He's too weak to beat Bootenks, even in SSJ3


LAWL
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