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Gohan vs Broly, potential wise
Topic Started: Sep 19 2012, 12:55 PM (7,732 Views)
+ Pyrus
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Sircum
Sep 20 2012, 02:18 AM
Except he did get near SSj3 tier, he's actually in low SSj3 tier, derp.
I don't think he is. Derp.
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GridZero
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According to a very reliable source, he's Gogeta tier.
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Sircum
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Kamikaze Pyro
Sep 20 2012, 02:21 AM
Sircum
Sep 20 2012, 02:18 AM
Except he did get near SSj3 tier, he's actually in low SSj3 tier, derp.
I don't think he is. Derp.
Ehhhh

Think about it this way, he survived amplified SSj2 Kamehameha(s) and one SSj Kamehameha

That should make him at least SSj3 tier.

Low SSj3 Tier:
Gray Buu
LSSj Broly (M10)

High SSj2 Tier:
Fat Buu?
SSj2 Goku
SSj2 Majin Vegeta

Mid SSj2 Tier:
SSj2 Kid Gohan (Enraged)

Low SSj2 Tier:
SPC
SSj2 Kid Gohan (Normal)
SSj2 Budokai Gohan


That's how I see it, excluding Base Gotenks, M8 Broly, Gotenks, etc.
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Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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Paikuan extreme
Sep 20 2012, 02:17 AM
nimbus
Sep 20 2012, 01:11 AM
(controversy starts.... now)

Can we atleast agree Gohan was SSJ2 in M10?

And can we then agree he had a distinctive hairstyle from when from when he was fighting Broly in the KHH struggle? And that his hairstyle changed back to the hairstyle it was against Broly in the Final Push?

And that Goku appeared there as a result of Gohan asking Shen Long for more power? And that Goku transformed to SSJ, contributed his own KHH, and then had sudden change of hairstyle at the Final Push making him look very SSJ2? And that it can't be contributed to wind because Goten has almost identical hair to Goku and his hair didn't look SSJ2-esque in the Final Push?

And that it would be illogical for Goku to go up to SSJ2 and contribute a KHH if he wasn't adding any power to the KHH, especially because he appeared there as a result of Gohan wishing for more power?

And if Gohan and Goku both went SSJ2 and fired a KHH at Broly, and Broly withstood it, albeit with use of a ki shield, this is likely a feat placing him above SSJ2 Goku or Vegeta?

If you've answered no to any of these, then that's probably where we can start and see how much we differ, lol.
its arguable gohan is ssj2 gohan the aura notwithstanding as evidence.

and toriyama himself has drawn goten with ssj2 hair while flying.

being a gohan that trained from movie 8 would not make him like main timeline gohan, just stronger than he was before.

Gohan in movies 8 and 10 are the same person.

How he surpassed main timeline gohan when he was significantly WEAKER to begin with is the whole issue.

if i say anything? its that this movie was in production before it was even discovered that gohan was completely slacked in his training.

meaning that movie 8 gohan being as strong as teen gohan IS the power up from contiunous training.

without gokus help he would never have reached his epic proportion. all im saying. So making him stronger than main timeline gohan is where the error is, its possible, but not logical or probable.

The probability gohan is at the strongest form of SSj EVER is more possible than him being stronger than main gohan.

otherwise with goku doing the burst SSJ2 like at yakon then its possible that goku in reality DIDNT use all of his power.

and didnt need to with gohan and goten being the only ones to take the final shot.

The only real way for it to be solved is to tell us:

WHY goku didnt fight broly again at SSJ2.

and why what happened at the end of movie 11 wasnt shown.

In both version dubs goku came down and said it was his responsibility to take care of broly, and then made his kids do all the footwork. The next movie, goku showed NO fear at king yemmas request and didnt request pikkon come along for help. He just welcomed the company.

broly= NO problem for goku. i dont see why the continuous haxxing and assuming he can just beat goku up. When goku already defeated him in battle pretty decisively.

if i get beat on and still win? its STILL a win, ask any UFC or k1 fighter. doesnt matter if you got licks handed to you, you won that fight, nevermind blackeyes and stuff.

vegeta broke gokus bones fighting him, broly did none of that to goku but over power him .

and in the end got himself killed. but for a demand for a sequel there would been no retcon and broly would be dead.
I was disregarding whether or not Gohan was stronger/weaker than his canon counterpart here.

The Daiz scans (can't find 'em anymore as of now) showed two clearly distinctive Gohans -- one with a loose strand of hair and rounder eyes, one with a longer bang, no loose strand of hair, and with more rectangular eyes. And well, I know you said notwithstanding the aura, but still, the aura is there and it looks pretty SSJ2-esque.

KP showed you Goku and Vegeta in I think it was M12 being SSJ2 but without the bioelectricity, correct? No bioelectricity was a glaring mistake IMO, but Toei did do that -- make SSJ2's without the bioelectricity.

Would Broly really be no problem for Goku though? LSSJ Broly was toying with Gohan to a ridiculous extent (i.e., lava being Gohan's only hope, he tanks Gohan's full-force punch to Broly's nose, shoves Gohan into the stone ground, et cetera...)

Goku is no doubt above Gohan, but I wonder if I can see it as Goku being able to manage this (assuming he's in the same mind-set as Broly), especially tanking Gohan's punch.

This is all assuming Gohan was SSJ2 BTW, what led me to say Broly would be trouble for SSJ2 Goku.

As for Goten having SSJ2 hair while flying, well, that's kinda different IMO; wind is much more prominent while flying than in shooting a Kamehameha. And Goten still didn't have his hair blown back to SSJ2 hair in his Final Push of the KHH, Goku did, and arguably, before the wind from the Final Push hit in. It just looks far too straightforward (assuming you've seen the gif of Goku saying "Now!", again, provided by KP), with all of the bangs going up at that very moment, with just that one same SSJ2-esque bang being left there, and IIRC, there's a change in his pupils (this is important because I remember a change in SSJ2 and SSJ pupils when I was analyzing their differences).

If we're just assuming Goku and Gohan went SSJ2 in the Final Push here, can we say SSJ2 Goku would not be able to withstand that level of a Kamehameha like Broly did?
Edited by Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs, Sep 20 2012, 02:37 AM.
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Paikuan extreme
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the same ssj2 aura was used for goten trunks and kuririn in movie 11.

so besides the toriyamas sketch of gohan which clearly wasnt followed? even toriyama himself said gohans haircut didnt mean much. The MSSJ look is distinct, doesnt mean toei followed it.

Like ive been saying, for continuity purpose is why the looks were used, to place them at a certain era.

Gohan in ssj and ssj2 was no different aside from the bioelectric aura as drawn by toriyama himself

so toei disregards both lightning and auras and just draw hair. Its ridiculous.

i had shown a movie still in another thread that has shown that toei doesnt care HOW they look.

and if pyrus hadnt pointed out gokus hair in movie 12? then i wouldnt have noticed either, thats how much it doesnt matter to toei.

The complete look should be complete. Like i said, i can let goku in movie 12 go, but not gohan.

Movie 11 is the biggest killer of the aura theory.
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+ Pyrus
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please delete, my mistake
Edited by Pyrus, Sep 20 2012, 03:55 AM.
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+ Pyrus
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Final Push GIF


The same aura SSjin 2 Gohan had in Movie 10 is not the same aura SSjin Goten/Trunks and Krillin had in Movie 11. Gohan's was much more flared and was surging in front of his face, while the auras for the latter three were more compact, less spaced out between spikes, and weren't surging in front of their faces. Comparison pictures:

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+ Kyouks
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It's official then - Krillin became a False Super Saiyan.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Gohan with a PL of 5 I believe it was had the potential to reach all the way past the SSj3 mark and past the Super Buu Mark.

Broly with a PL of 10,000 only got to the extreme SSj2 mark and nothing indicates that his potential would reach past that.

By all means Gohan has more "potential" especially when we actually have a good figure of judgement for Gohan than we do Broly.
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Kyouka Suigetsu
Sep 20 2012, 04:05 AM
It's official then - Krillin became a False Super Saiyan.

Pseudo Super Saiyan had a different aura and tint to the aura than that. ^_^
Brofist
Sep 20 2012, 04:07 AM
Gohan with a PL of 5 I believe it was had the potential to reach all the way past the SSj3 mark and past the Super Buu Mark.

Broly with a PL of 10,000 only got to the extreme SSj2 mark and nothing indicates that his potential would reach past that.

By all means Gohan has more "potential" especially when we actually have a good figure of judgement for Gohan than we do Broly.

Overall, yeah, Gohan made it that far. We never saw what Broly's potential limit was since he was killed. I think the point people are making is Gohan trained, fought, and had his potential released twice in order to breach the Super Boo mark, while Broly destroyed planets for roughly 30 years and was stronger than anybody else who'd done the aforementioned things.

Gohan's potential had to be brought wa~~~~~y beyond its limits to breach the Super Boo mark, by the way.
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Paikuan extreme
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the ssj aura is supposed to look like the raisin bran sunshine aura. all round and non spiky.

im fully aware that they arent supposed to be SSj2's pyrus. my point is that toei doesnt care how the aura as drawn by toriyama is supposed to look.

call it lazy, call it apathy, not sure. but it makes no diff. even gotens eyes were squinted.

toei= dont care.

but even just humoring the ssj2 gohan theory, so what? even if he is just a super saiyan that equals any ssj2's power known to date, he was still having a huge gap to surpass between HIM and main timeline gohan.

then pass him AND goku in that same form? not seeing it.
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How did Toei not care about Toriyama's way of drawing it? They differentiated between forms well enough.
Edited by Pyrus, Sep 20 2012, 04:16 AM.
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Paikuan extreme
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in terms of hair, auras, power, etc... at least IMHO.

i mean, i cant honestly say that it matters, but it doesnt cover movie 8 gohans sudden major increase in power.

Hax or not and i personally dont see any.

These supposed ssj2 multipliers from multiple shots are moot if the person they are shooting at is already stronger than all of them.

ssj2 burst goku at yakon could more than likely equal this unnecessary need for goku to change right at the end when all he had to do was fight broly. He didnt.

Gohan and goten took the final shot and it seemed to be them that did it. You yourself have pointed out that they are both ssj in the final shot, is that a mistake? why would gohan be only ssj all of a sudden?

exactly. we have two ssj kids and a ghost of an ssj2 that didnt even bother carrying his bluff out. yet showed no fear, and realized he couldnt actually do anything as he was there only in spirit.

even movie 9 let him punch bojack at least before the pep talk for gohan to release. again.



Edited by Paikuan extreme, Sep 20 2012, 04:24 AM.
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Kamikaze Pyro
Sep 20 2012, 04:13 AM
Kyouka Suigetsu
Sep 20 2012, 04:05 AM
It's official then - Krillin became a False Super Saiyan.

Pseudo Super Saiyan had a different aura and tint to the aura than that. ^_^
Only because of the dark background/environment. <_<
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free willie
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I see m10 broly high tier ssj3 tier. with ssj3 goku, kid buu. ssj pre gotenks

Fat buu angry explosion couldnt take out vegeta yet broly toying done it in 3 hits. same goes for kid buu who struggled to put vegeta down. And like you said sircum broly was suppressed. he is a saiyan.

Its a fact that broly omega blaster which seem to have no effort towards it and one hand guiding it needed 2 ssj2 and ssj to overpower it. And that blast is already quite ahead of ssj3 itself. and abit weaker then a ssj3 kamehameha. but broly took zero damage form it. which means if broly took a ssj3 kamehameha he wouldnt die nor be seriously injured.

ssj3 is 2-3x of ssj3

a kamehameha form ssj2 and ssj3 is easily 5x of the user

so the family kamehameha is 11x of ssj2. Ssj3 kamehameha would be 10-15x. it means punches and kick would barely do any damage form a ssj3.





Edited by free willie, Sep 20 2012, 06:39 AM.
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