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did gohan turn ssj or ssj 2 to defeat broly?
Topic Started: Sep 15 2012, 05:56 PM (19,680 Views)
+ miguelnuva
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Sircum
Sep 16 2012, 11:16 PM
miguelnuva
Sep 16 2012, 11:16 PM
M8 Gohan is weaker than his Cell games self though look at the way he fights in M8.

Also Goku can feel LSSJ Broly's power when he says this guy is stronger then all of us, Goku doesn't associate Broly's power with the power he's been following intill Broly starts to go LSSJ and then in the manga Krillen states he can tell Trunks is holding a lot of energy back.

Goku is most likely stating LSSJ Broly> MSSJ Goku.

Goku stated RSSj Broly > MSSj Goku and his gang.

Not LSSj Broly

LSSj Broly >>> MSSj Goku, derp.
No Goku says this power left behind could be greater than all of us and then he says when Broly starts to go LSSJ that's the power I've been chasing.

Posted Image Posted Image

Gogeta power placement
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Sircum
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Brofist
Sep 16 2012, 11:17 PM
Sircum
Sep 16 2012, 11:14 PM
Brofist
Sep 16 2012, 11:13 PM
Quote:
 
Chapter: 415 (DBZ 221), P6.2-5
Context: after Gohan's injured saving Vegeta, and Cell charges up his final Kamehameha
Goku: “Go strike with an all-out Kamehameha, like Cell! If you do that, you’ll definitely win! Absolutely!”
Gohan: “B-but, the way I am now…I can only use one arm, and even my ki is already less than half…”
[ ]
Goku: “That’s alright, you can win! Believe in your own power! Show me one last time…The power we created together!”

Chapter: 415 (DBZ 221), P10.2
Context: after Gohan fires his Kamehameha
Piccolo: “It no use…! Gohan’s ki is weaker after all…”

I think Gohan really was at 50% or less.


I still wouldn't put Gohan at 50%. We already know that Gohan had a severe lack of confidence and we also know that his ki would have had to have gone up when he charged his kamehameha wave. however, the blast still would have crippled Gohan and his reduced his ki in some way. I put it around 65-70% and around 85% or so when he starts the beam duel. Nothing more than that though because even with the evidence of SPC actually being stronger in some regards, I firstly have no problem in believing that SSj2 Gohan "Rage burst">SPC and it only feels acceptable to have them on an equal settings.

Get Gohan anywhere above 85% prior to realizing all of his power then SPC would not only be vastly superior to SSj2 Chibi Gohan but also possibly much stronger than rage burst. Of course some people interpret it as a different way in which SSj2 Gohan is giving it his all, near or at 100% and has to dig in deeper into his reservoir of power to beat Cell.
Have you given up on me sir?

50% SSj2 Gohan's KHH > SPC KHH.

This is all you need to know.
I'm honestly having a bit of a problem with this multi-quote format so I'm honeslty just going around posting here and there now.

as for 50% Ssj2 Gohan being stronger than SPC...

No.

It's outright stated at this point that Cell was stronger than Gohan.
The closest that they stated that SPC > Gohan was that they were rivalling each other.

It wasn't "Stated" that SPC > Gohan. derp.
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+ Kyouks
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nimbus
Sep 16 2012, 11:13 PM
I've given all the proof I need here, Kyook.

Yay!
nimbus
Sep 16 2012, 10:41 PM
I've been thinking about it and realized that Gohan's fight against SSJ Broly in base shouldn't be interpreted as an excuse to make Gohan super-strong as it should be to make Broly weak.

Or you could ignore it altogether, or nerf Gohan's SSJ, etc.....

It doesn't contradict anything at all, because chances are? Gohan is probably stronger than the SSJ kids in base in the CANON. The second 18 finds out it's the kids and she knows what amount of power to use? She finishes them, flat.

No she doesn't.

Base Gohan is easily above the SSJ Kids, who I'd place at around maybe 25% Final Form Freeza at best, because otherwise? You can't fit in the gaps with Base Goku Boo Saga being weaker than Full Power Freeza.

Which is definitely not the case

Gohan would be 2x Goten, Goku 2x this. Just equal to Max Freeza, the highest any Saiyan is getting to in base, but even this I find illogical, because then he'd be STRONGER than this at Oob. And that's just silly, so I'd say 10% Freeza fits better.

wut

Yeah, and I don't think those Daiz concept art or whatever of Gohan is showing two distinct forms, unless you think Gohan is SSJ2 at Goten in their sparring session. It's just showing a relaxed SSJ Gohan, and a full power SSJ Gohan.

lolwut

No lightning? No SSJ2. A simple concept to grasp. Gohan has to be angry to go SSJ2, simple. He goes SSJ2 at Budokai because he saw Videl getting trashed. He didn't at Dabra because he had nothing to be angry about.

This is TOEI. Now, if it were manga.......

So assuming SSJ Broly is around the tier of Base Gohan? And LSSJ Broly than trashes SSJ Gohan? SSJ2 Gohan trashes LSSJ Broly. Again, Gohan was his canon counterpart, nothing to contradict it. Gohan saying he powered up was simply because M8 Gohan < M10 Gohan = Canon Gohan < Cell Games Gohan. The M8 Z-Fighters were weaker than the canon Z-Fighters, Cell Games retconned their power, Gohan's statement was to tidy it up.

So LSSJ Broly is maybe a bit higher than Dabra, who regarded the SSJ Gohan he fought as trash.

:rofl:

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+ Pyrus
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miguelnuva
Sep 16 2012, 11:16 PM
M8 Gohan is weaker than his Cell games self though look at the way he fights in M8.

Meaning what? Gohan didn't do any fighting as a MSSjin in the Cell Games except for a kick to Cell's head.
Quote:
 
Also Goku can feel LSSJ Broly's power when he says this guy is stronger then all of us, Goku doesn't associate Broly's power with the power he's been following intill Broly starts to go LSSJ and then in the manga Krillen states he can tell Trunks is holding a lot of energy back.

Goku is most likely stating LSSJ Broly> MSSJ Goku.

Broly couldn't attain LSSjin while Paragus was controlling his mind. He did all of his pre-movie destruction as a RSSjin. When Goku lands on the busted planet, he says he can still feel Broly's power and that Kaio might've been right when he said Broly was stronger than all of them. Then when he fights him in the forest and Broly powers up a little, Goku says that was the power he was following.

RSSjin Broly (powered up) > MSSjin Goku > RSSjin Broly (initial) > Base Goku
Edited by Pyrus, Sep 16 2012, 11:20 PM.
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Paikuan extreme
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Sircum
Sep 16 2012, 07:35 PM
Paikuan extreme
Sep 16 2012, 07:35 PM
what evidence? you mean the still shots of gokus blownback hair?

even the producers quote cant help you with this one.

and im speaking on a world wide scale. not many people at all believe what you do.
Goten's hair was never blown back.

done. dot.

You guys have yet to debunk this, the fact that Goten doesn't have SSj2 hair is enough.
Posted Image
dang, i left for a few hours and its 7 pages long? holy crap.

the promo shot is a good one. I admit.

but toriyama himself has made the same mistake with goten in his own comic.

I cant explain this though, although it looks very convincing. it IS a promo shot though, and not a still shot from the movie.

its not even a good rendering....even with your theory though, it is possible for broly to be a high end SSj2 and easily take these guys out.

I mean, its movie hax. either way you power scale it, i still dont think that its possible.

If broly was ssj3 tier? and it mattered in the manga for all of these events to happen? then goku should have went ssj3 to defeat him and fight him, alone. Boo was ssj3 tier, and not even one hundred gokus and vegetas at max level could have taken him out.

so if crossing the timelines matter? i think that variable is quite important. goku, gohan and goten would not be enough to take broly out. The sun? thats another question considering it still looked to me that the sun was the coup de grace. Killing broly yes, but why would the sun and not the power of three people who are strong enough to destroy the solar system? even SPC could pull that off.

Movie hax bro. its made to look good.

i stick to my personal decree, only the finishing of movie 11 b would finish this, cause there will always be evidence to support either side, so besides the SSJ3 thing? its not hard to agree with you guys and your point of view.

But its still all based on belief and how the evidence is presented.
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Sircum
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miguelnuva
Sep 16 2012, 11:18 PM
Sircum
Sep 16 2012, 11:16 PM
miguelnuva
Sep 16 2012, 11:16 PM
M8 Gohan is weaker than his Cell games self though look at the way he fights in M8.

Also Goku can feel LSSJ Broly's power when he says this guy is stronger then all of us, Goku doesn't associate Broly's power with the power he's been following intill Broly starts to go LSSJ and then in the manga Krillen states he can tell Trunks is holding a lot of energy back.

Goku is most likely stating LSSJ Broly> MSSJ Goku.

Goku stated RSSj Broly > MSSj Goku and his gang.

Not LSSj Broly

LSSj Broly >>> MSSj Goku, derp.
No Goku says this power left behind could be greater than all of us and then he says when Broly starts to go LSSJ that's the power I've been chasing.

Ok bro, ok, did you see the movie? Or the Jap dub?

Goku eats a ***** ton. Kai says that Broly is finishing destroying the South Galaxy, and that his Galaxy is next.

"Goku, it's possible that his power may even be greater than that of you guys."

"Wow! He's that strong!" Goku got excited, he tries to sense Broly's ki.

He arrived. "He ain't here, but for him to leave this incredible Ki behind..." So RSSJ Broly might have stronger KI then Perfect Cell who fought Trunks and Vegeta, and stronger than Goku and Gohan as well.

"This is the Ki I felt, it could be like Kaio-Sama was saying his power is higher than even ours!"

herp derp.
Edited by Sircum, Sep 16 2012, 11:22 PM.
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+ Pyrus
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Goku ran away after Broly went LSSjin. Lol.
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Sircum
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Paikuan extreme
Sep 16 2012, 11:19 PM
Sircum
Sep 16 2012, 07:35 PM
Paikuan extreme
Sep 16 2012, 07:35 PM
what evidence? you mean the still shots of gokus blownback hair?

even the producers quote cant help you with this one.

and im speaking on a world wide scale. not many people at all believe what you do.
Goten's hair was never blown back.

done. dot.

You guys have yet to debunk this, the fact that Goten doesn't have SSj2 hair is enough.
Posted Image
dang, i left for a few hours and its 7 pages long? holy crap.

the promo shot is a good one. I admit.

but toriyama himself has made the same mistake with goten in his own comic.

I cant explain this though, although it looks very convincing. it IS a promo shot though, and not a still shot from the movie.

its not even a good rendering....even with your theory though, it is possible for broly to be a high end SSj2 and easily take these guys out.

I mean, its movie hax. either way you power scale it, i still dont think that its possible.

If broly was ssj3 tier? and it mattered in the manga for all of these events to happen? then goku should have went ssj3 to defeat him and fight him, alone. Boo was ssj3 tier, and not even one hundred gokus and vegetas at max level could have taken him out.

so if crossing the timelines matter? i think that variable is quite important. goku, gohan and goten would not be enough to take broly out. The sun? thats another question considering it still looked to me that the sun was the coup de grace. Killing broly yes, but why would the sun and not the power of three people who are strong enough to destroy the solar system? even SPC could pull that off.

Movie hax bro. its made to look good.

i stick to my personal decree, only the finishing of movie 11 b would finish this, cause there will always be evidence to support either side, so besides the SSJ3 thing? its not hard to agree with you guys and your point of view.

But its still all based on belief and how the evidence is presented.
Did you just acknowledge this picture after the past month?

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Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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Kyouka Suigetsu
Sep 16 2012, 11:19 PM
nimbus
Sep 16 2012, 11:13 PM
I've given all the proof I need here, Kyook.

Yay!
nimbus
Sep 16 2012, 10:41 PM
I've been thinking about it and realized that Gohan's fight against SSJ Broly in base shouldn't be interpreted as an excuse to make Gohan super-strong as it should be to make Broly weak.

Or you could ignore it altogether, or nerf Gohan's SSJ, etc.....

Why would I ignore a crucial fight scene, or nerf or hax unnecessarily?

It doesn't contradict anything at all, because chances are? Gohan is probably stronger than the SSJ kids in base in the CANON. The second 18 finds out it's the kids and she knows what amount of power to use? She finishes them, flat.

No she doesn't.
She finds out their identity, says something like "I know it's you, boys," throws a kienzan at them, and wins.

Base Gohan is easily above the SSJ Kids, who I'd place at around maybe 25% Final Form Freeza at best, because otherwise? You can't fit in the gaps with Base Goku Boo Saga being weaker than Full Power Freeza.

Which is definitely not the case
What proof do you have against it?

Gohan would be 2x Goten, Goku 2x this. Just equal to Max Freeza, the highest any Saiyan is getting to in base, but even this I find illogical, because then he'd be STRONGER than this at Oob. And that's just silly, so I'd say 10% Freeza fits better.

wut

Yeah, and I don't think those Daiz concept art or whatever of Gohan is showing two distinct forms, unless you think Gohan is SSJ2 at Goten in their sparring session. It's just showing a relaxed SSJ Gohan, and a full power SSJ Gohan.

lolwut
Yeah, you should rewatch or reread Gohan vs Goten sparring. You'll see that Gohan shows attributes of your so-called "SSJ2 Gohan" M10 several times.

No lightning? No SSJ2. A simple concept to grasp. Gohan has to be angry to go SSJ2, simple. He goes SSJ2 at Budokai because he saw Videl getting trashed. He didn't at Dabra because he had nothing to be angry about.

This is TOEI. Now, if it were manga.......

So assuming SSJ Broly is around the tier of Base Gohan? And LSSJ Broly than trashes SSJ Gohan? SSJ2 Gohan trashes LSSJ Broly. Again, Gohan was his canon counterpart, nothing to contradict it. Gohan saying he powered up was simply because M8 Gohan < M10 Gohan = Canon Gohan < Cell Games Gohan. The M8 Z-Fighters were weaker than the canon Z-Fighters, Cell Games retconned their power, Gohan's statement was to tidy it up.

So LSSJ Broly is maybe a bit higher than Dabra, who regarded the SSJ Gohan he fought as trash.

:rofl:
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Sircum
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M10 Broly would finish off SPC's Kamehameha like it's nothing, actually.
Edited by Sircum, Sep 16 2012, 11:25 PM.
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+ Kyouks
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Uhh, nimbus, how's about you gimme some more.....elaboration, so that I can debunk you? A'ight, buddy? :p
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Sircum
Sep 16 2012, 11:18 PM
Brofist
Sep 16 2012, 11:17 PM
Sircum
Sep 16 2012, 11:14 PM
Brofist
Sep 16 2012, 11:13 PM
Quote:
 
Chapter: 415 (DBZ 221), P6.2-5
Context: after Gohan's injured saving Vegeta, and Cell charges up his final Kamehameha
Goku: “Go strike with an all-out Kamehameha, like Cell! If you do that, you’ll definitely win! Absolutely!”
Gohan: “B-but, the way I am now…I can only use one arm, and even my ki is already less than half…”
[ ]
Goku: “That’s alright, you can win! Believe in your own power! Show me one last time…The power we created together!”

Chapter: 415 (DBZ 221), P10.2
Context: after Gohan fires his Kamehameha
Piccolo: “It no use…! Gohan’s ki is weaker after all…”

I think Gohan really was at 50% or less.


I still wouldn't put Gohan at 50%. We already know that Gohan had a severe lack of confidence and we also know that his ki would have had to have gone up when he charged his kamehameha wave. however, the blast still would have crippled Gohan and his reduced his ki in some way. I put it around 65-70% and around 85% or so when he starts the beam duel. Nothing more than that though because even with the evidence of SPC actually being stronger in some regards, I firstly have no problem in believing that SSj2 Gohan "Rage burst">SPC and it only feels acceptable to have them on an equal settings.

Get Gohan anywhere above 85% prior to realizing all of his power then SPC would not only be vastly superior to SSj2 Chibi Gohan but also possibly much stronger than rage burst. Of course some people interpret it as a different way in which SSj2 Gohan is giving it his all, near or at 100% and has to dig in deeper into his reservoir of power to beat Cell.
Have you given up on me sir?

50% SSj2 Gohan's KHH > SPC KHH.

This is all you need to know.
I'm honestly having a bit of a problem with this multi-quote format so I'm honeslty just going around posting here and there now.

as for 50% Ssj2 Gohan being stronger than SPC...

No.

It's outright stated at this point that Cell was stronger than Gohan.
The closest that they stated that SPC > Gohan was that they were rivalling each other.

It wasn't "Stated" that SPC > Gohan. derp.
Umm, yes it was. Piccolo outright states Gohan's ki was weaker. Cell non-nonchalantly manhandled Gohan during the beam duel, didn't break a sweat and laughed the entire time. The only time Gohan would have possibly been stronger than SPC was during the rage burst when he killed Cell and again, it was used on a distracted Cell who was barely given enough time to notice it much less prepare for it.
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Sircum
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Brofist
Sep 16 2012, 11:25 PM
Sircum
Sep 16 2012, 11:18 PM
Brofist
Sep 16 2012, 11:17 PM
Sircum
Sep 16 2012, 11:14 PM
Brofist
Sep 16 2012, 11:13 PM
Quote:
 
Chapter: 415 (DBZ 221), P6.2-5
Context: after Gohan's injured saving Vegeta, and Cell charges up his final Kamehameha
Goku: “Go strike with an all-out Kamehameha, like Cell! If you do that, you’ll definitely win! Absolutely!”
Gohan: “B-but, the way I am now…I can only use one arm, and even my ki is already less than half…”
[ ]
Goku: “That’s alright, you can win! Believe in your own power! Show me one last time…The power we created together!”

Chapter: 415 (DBZ 221), P10.2
Context: after Gohan fires his Kamehameha
Piccolo: “It no use…! Gohan’s ki is weaker after all…”

I think Gohan really was at 50% or less.


I still wouldn't put Gohan at 50%. We already know that Gohan had a severe lack of confidence and we also know that his ki would have had to have gone up when he charged his kamehameha wave. however, the blast still would have crippled Gohan and his reduced his ki in some way. I put it around 65-70% and around 85% or so when he starts the beam duel. Nothing more than that though because even with the evidence of SPC actually being stronger in some regards, I firstly have no problem in believing that SSj2 Gohan "Rage burst">SPC and it only feels acceptable to have them on an equal settings.

Get Gohan anywhere above 85% prior to realizing all of his power then SPC would not only be vastly superior to SSj2 Chibi Gohan but also possibly much stronger than rage burst. Of course some people interpret it as a different way in which SSj2 Gohan is giving it his all, near or at 100% and has to dig in deeper into his reservoir of power to beat Cell.
Have you given up on me sir?

50% SSj2 Gohan's KHH > SPC KHH.

This is all you need to know.
I'm honestly having a bit of a problem with this multi-quote format so I'm honeslty just going around posting here and there now.

as for 50% Ssj2 Gohan being stronger than SPC...

No.

It's outright stated at this point that Cell was stronger than Gohan.
The closest that they stated that SPC > Gohan was that they were rivalling each other.

It wasn't "Stated" that SPC > Gohan. derp.
Umm, yes it was. Piccolo outright states Gohan's ki was weaker. Cell non-nonchalantly manhandled Gohan during the beam duel, didn't break a sweat and laughed the entire time. The only time Gohan would have possibly been stronger than SPC was during the rage burst when he killed Cell and again, it was used on a distracted Cell who was barely given enough time to notice it much less prepare for it.
Ok bro. ok.

Broly laughed off MSSj Gohan's, Goku's, and SSj Goten's KHH like it's nothing.

And that KHH trio > SPC himself, bro.
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Paikuan extreme
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Sircum
Sep 16 2012, 11:24 PM
Paikuan extreme
Sep 16 2012, 11:19 PM
Sircum
Sep 16 2012, 07:35 PM
Paikuan extreme
Sep 16 2012, 07:35 PM
what evidence? you mean the still shots of gokus blownback hair?

even the producers quote cant help you with this one.

and im speaking on a world wide scale. not many people at all believe what you do.
Goten's hair was never blown back.

done. dot.

You guys have yet to debunk this, the fact that Goten doesn't have SSj2 hair is enough.
Posted Image
dang, i left for a few hours and its 7 pages long? holy crap.

the promo shot is a good one. I admit.

but toriyama himself has made the same mistake with goten in his own comic.

I cant explain this though, although it looks very convincing. it IS a promo shot though, and not a still shot from the movie.

its not even a good rendering....even with your theory though, it is possible for broly to be a high end SSj2 and easily take these guys out.

I mean, its movie hax. either way you power scale it, i still dont think that its possible.

If broly was ssj3 tier? and it mattered in the manga for all of these events to happen? then goku should have went ssj3 to defeat him and fight him, alone. Boo was ssj3 tier, and not even one hundred gokus and vegetas at max level could have taken him out.

so if crossing the timelines matter? i think that variable is quite important. goku, gohan and goten would not be enough to take broly out. The sun? thats another question considering it still looked to me that the sun was the coup de grace. Killing broly yes, but why would the sun and not the power of three people who are strong enough to destroy the solar system? even SPC could pull that off.

Movie hax bro. its made to look good.

i stick to my personal decree, only the finishing of movie 11 b would finish this, cause there will always be evidence to support either side, so besides the SSJ3 thing? its not hard to agree with you guys and your point of view.

But its still all based on belief and how the evidence is presented.
Did you just acknowledge this picture after the past month?

LOL, no, this pic has been floating around for longer than ive been here. You should look through other threads.
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+ miguelnuva
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What Rage boost, SSJ2 is Gohan's rage boost.

Movie 8 Broly is around Full power Cell because this is the arc he is based on

Movie 10 Broly is around SPC because that is the arc he is based on.

Posted Image Posted Image

Gogeta power placement
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