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did gohan turn ssj or ssj 2 to defeat broly?
Topic Started: Sep 15 2012, 05:56 PM (19,681 Views)
Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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My views are simple, you know why? Because they go with manga and anime. Because they don't hax or nerf.

MSSJ Goku < Cell (At Goku) << LSSJ Broly M8 < MSSJ Teen Gohan < MSSJ Gohan << Dabra ~ LSSJ Broly M10 < Full Power Cell

Simple.
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+ Pyrus
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The English dub doesn't say anything about the ooze weakening him. I haven't been able to get the Japanese version yet.
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nimbus
Sep 16 2012, 11:10 PM
My views are simple, you know why? Because they go with manga and anime. Because they don't hax or nerf.

MSSJ Goku < Cell (At Goku) << LSSJ Broly M8 < MSSJ Teen Gohan < MSSJ Gohan << Dabra ~ LSSJ Broly M10 < Full Power Cell

Simple.
My, my, my, how simple.

'Tis why you must elaborate! You've given no real proof, son. :lol: :rofl:
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Ok, should we get serious guys? Seems like our enemies are going to drop their version of a nuke.
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Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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Goku and Gohan were also Semi-ROSAT BTW. Gohan had his Androids Saga outfit, neither of them were MSSJ yet likely. They have clear SSJ attributes. This is in a different timeline, remember.

So I think LSSJ Broly M8 is probably not even stronger than Cell At Goku.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Quote:
 
Chapter: 415 (DBZ 221), P6.2-5
Context: after Gohan's injured saving Vegeta, and Cell charges up his final Kamehameha
Goku: “Go strike with an all-out Kamehameha, like Cell! If you do that, you’ll definitely win! Absolutely!”
Gohan: “B-but, the way I am now…I can only use one arm, and even my ki is already less than half…”
[ ]
Goku: “That’s alright, you can win! Believe in your own power! Show me one last time…The power we created together!”

Chapter: 415 (DBZ 221), P10.2
Context: after Gohan fires his Kamehameha
Piccolo: “It no use…! Gohan’s ki is weaker after all…”

I think Gohan really was at 50% or less.


I still wouldn't put Gohan at 50%. We already know that Gohan had a severe lack of confidence and we also know that his ki would have had to have gone up when he charged his kamehameha wave. however, the blast still would have crippled Gohan and his reduced his ki in some way. I put it around 65-70% and around 85% or so when he starts the beam duel. Nothing more than that though because even with the evidence of SPC actually being stronger in some regards, I firstly have no problem in believing that SSj2 Gohan "Rage burst">SPC and it only feels acceptable to have them on an equal settings.

Get Gohan anywhere above 85% prior to realizing all of his power then SPC would not only be vastly superior to SSj2 Chibi Gohan but also possibly much stronger than rage burst. Of course some people interpret it as a different way in which SSj2 Gohan is giving it his all, near or at 100% and has to dig in deeper into his reservoir of power to beat Cell.
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Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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nimbus
Sep 16 2012, 10:41 PM
I've been thinking about it and realized that Gohan's fight against SSJ Broly in base shouldn't be interpreted as an excuse to make Gohan super-strong as it should be to make Broly weak.

It doesn't contradict anything at all, because chances are? Gohan is probably stronger than the SSJ kids in base in the CANON. The second 18 finds out it's the kids and she knows what amount of power to use? She finishes them, flat.

Base Gohan is easily above the SSJ Kids, who I'd place at around maybe 25% Final Form Freeza at best, because otherwise? You can't fit in the gaps with Base Goku Boo Saga being weaker than Full Power Freeza.

Gohan would be 2x Goten, Goku 2x this. Just equal to Max Freeza, the highest any Saiyan is getting to in base, but even this I find illogical, because then he'd be STRONGER than this at Oob. And that's just silly, so I'd say 10% Freeza fits better.

Yeah, and I don't think those Daiz concept art or whatever of Gohan is showing two distinct forms, unless you think Gohan is SSJ2 at Goten in their sparring session. It's just showing a relaxed SSJ Gohan, and a full power SSJ Gohan.

No lightning? No SSJ2. A simple concept to grasp. Gohan has to be angry to go SSJ2, simple. He goes SSJ2 at Budokai because he saw Videl getting trashed. He didn't at Dabra because he had nothing to be angry about.

So assuming SSJ Broly is around the tier of Base Gohan? And LSSJ Broly than trashes SSJ Gohan? SSJ2 Gohan trashes LSSJ Broly. Again, Gohan was his canon counterpart, nothing to contradict it. Gohan saying he powered up was simply because M8 Gohan < M10 Gohan = Canon Gohan < Cell Games Gohan. The M8 Z-Fighters were weaker than the canon Z-Fighters, Cell Games retconned their power, Gohan's statement was to tidy it up.

So LSSJ Broly is maybe a bit higher than Dabra, who regarded the SSJ Gohan he fought as trash.
I've given all the proof I need here, Kyook.
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nimbus
Sep 16 2012, 11:12 PM
Goku and Gohan were also Semi-ROSAT BTW. Gohan had his Androids Saga outfit, neither of them were MSSJ yet likely. They have clear SSJ attributes. This is in a different timeline, remember.

So I think LSSJ Broly M8 is probably not even stronger than Cell At Goku.
Bro, this again? Daiz says M8 takes place during the Cell Games' 10-day wait.....
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Brofist
Sep 16 2012, 11:13 PM
Quote:
 
Chapter: 415 (DBZ 221), P6.2-5
Context: after Gohan's injured saving Vegeta, and Cell charges up his final Kamehameha
Goku: “Go strike with an all-out Kamehameha, like Cell! If you do that, you’ll definitely win! Absolutely!”
Gohan: “B-but, the way I am now…I can only use one arm, and even my ki is already less than half…”
[ ]
Goku: “That’s alright, you can win! Believe in your own power! Show me one last time…The power we created together!”

Chapter: 415 (DBZ 221), P10.2
Context: after Gohan fires his Kamehameha
Piccolo: “It no use…! Gohan’s ki is weaker after all…”

I think Gohan really was at 50% or less.


I still wouldn't put Gohan at 50%. We already know that Gohan had a severe lack of confidence and we also know that his ki would have had to have gone up when he charged his kamehameha wave. however, the blast still would have crippled Gohan and his reduced his ki in some way. I put it around 65-70% and around 85% or so when he starts the beam duel. Nothing more than that though because even with the evidence of SPC actually being stronger in some regards, I firstly have no problem in believing that SSj2 Gohan "Rage burst">SPC and it only feels acceptable to have them on an equal settings.

Get Gohan anywhere above 85% prior to realizing all of his power then SPC would not only be vastly superior to SSj2 Chibi Gohan but also possibly much stronger than rage burst. Of course some people interpret it as a different way in which SSj2 Gohan is giving it his all, near or at 100% and has to dig in deeper into his reservoir of power to beat Cell.
Have you given up on me sir?

50% SSj2 Gohan's KHH > SPC KHH.

This is all you need to know.
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Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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Kyouka Suigetsu
Sep 16 2012, 11:13 PM
nimbus
Sep 16 2012, 11:12 PM
Goku and Gohan were also Semi-ROSAT BTW. Gohan had his Androids Saga outfit, neither of them were MSSJ yet likely. They have clear SSJ attributes. This is in a different timeline, remember.

So I think LSSJ Broly M8 is probably not even stronger than Cell At Goku.
Bro, this again? Daiz says M8 takes place during the Cell Games' 10-day wait.....
Prove it.

Link. Scan. Pic.
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Brofist
Sep 16 2012, 11:13 PM
Quote:
 
Chapter: 415 (DBZ 221), P6.2-5
Context: after Gohan's injured saving Vegeta, and Cell charges up his final Kamehameha
Goku: “Go strike with an all-out Kamehameha, like Cell! If you do that, you’ll definitely win! Absolutely!”
Gohan: “B-but, the way I am now…I can only use one arm, and even my ki is already less than half…”
[ ]
Goku: “That’s alright, you can win! Believe in your own power! Show me one last time…The power we created together!”

Chapter: 415 (DBZ 221), P10.2
Context: after Gohan fires his Kamehameha
Piccolo: “It no use…! Gohan’s ki is weaker after all…”

I think Gohan really was at 50% or less.


I still wouldn't put Gohan at 50%. We already know that Gohan had a severe lack of confidence and we also know that his ki would have had to have gone up when he charged his kamehameha wave. however, the blast still would have crippled Gohan and his reduced his ki in some way. I put it around 65-70% and around 85% or so when he starts the beam duel. Nothing more than that though because even with the evidence of SPC actually being stronger in some regards, I firstly have no problem in believing that SSj2 Gohan "Rage burst">SPC and it only feels acceptable to have them on an equal settings.

Get Gohan anywhere above 85% prior to realizing all of his power then SPC would not only be vastly superior to SSj2 Chibi Gohan but also possibly much stronger than rage burst. Of course some people interpret it as a different way in which SSj2 Gohan is giving it his all, near or at 100% and has to dig in deeper into his reservoir of power to beat Cell.
Eh, Goku doesn't say Gohan's power didn't drop to less than half, and Piccolo said Gohan was weaker as well. :errm:
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M8 Gohan is weaker than his Cell games self though look at the way he fights in M8.

Also Goku can feel LSSJ Broly's power when he says this guy is stronger then all of us, Goku doesn't associate Broly's power with the power he's been following intill Broly starts to go LSSJ and then in the manga Krillen states he can tell Trunks is holding a lot of energy back.

Goku is most likely stating LSSJ Broly> MSSJ Goku.

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Gogeta power placement
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nimbus
Sep 16 2012, 11:15 PM
Kyouka Suigetsu
Sep 16 2012, 11:13 PM
nimbus
Sep 16 2012, 11:12 PM
Goku and Gohan were also Semi-ROSAT BTW. Gohan had his Androids Saga outfit, neither of them were MSSJ yet likely. They have clear SSJ attributes. This is in a different timeline, remember.

So I think LSSJ Broly M8 is probably not even stronger than Cell At Goku.
Bro, this again? Daiz says M8 takes place during the Cell Games' 10-day wait.....
Prove it.

Link. Scan. Pic.
Fine, be like that Nimbus :(

You have joined Ninja's clan!!
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miguelnuva
Sep 16 2012, 11:16 PM
M8 Gohan is weaker than his Cell games self though look at the way he fights in M8.

Also Goku can feel LSSJ Broly's power when he says this guy is stronger then all of us, Goku doesn't associate Broly's power with the power he's been following intill Broly starts to go LSSJ and then in the manga Krillen states he can tell Trunks is holding a lot of energy back.

Goku is most likely stating LSSJ Broly> MSSJ Goku.

Goku stated RSSj Broly > MSSj Goku and his gang.

Not LSSj Broly

LSSj Broly >>> MSSj Goku, derp.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Sircum
Sep 16 2012, 11:14 PM
Brofist
Sep 16 2012, 11:13 PM
Quote:
 
Chapter: 415 (DBZ 221), P6.2-5
Context: after Gohan's injured saving Vegeta, and Cell charges up his final Kamehameha
Goku: “Go strike with an all-out Kamehameha, like Cell! If you do that, you’ll definitely win! Absolutely!”
Gohan: “B-but, the way I am now…I can only use one arm, and even my ki is already less than half…”
[ ]
Goku: “That’s alright, you can win! Believe in your own power! Show me one last time…The power we created together!”

Chapter: 415 (DBZ 221), P10.2
Context: after Gohan fires his Kamehameha
Piccolo: “It no use…! Gohan’s ki is weaker after all…”

I think Gohan really was at 50% or less.


I still wouldn't put Gohan at 50%. We already know that Gohan had a severe lack of confidence and we also know that his ki would have had to have gone up when he charged his kamehameha wave. however, the blast still would have crippled Gohan and his reduced his ki in some way. I put it around 65-70% and around 85% or so when he starts the beam duel. Nothing more than that though because even with the evidence of SPC actually being stronger in some regards, I firstly have no problem in believing that SSj2 Gohan "Rage burst">SPC and it only feels acceptable to have them on an equal settings.

Get Gohan anywhere above 85% prior to realizing all of his power then SPC would not only be vastly superior to SSj2 Chibi Gohan but also possibly much stronger than rage burst. Of course some people interpret it as a different way in which SSj2 Gohan is giving it his all, near or at 100% and has to dig in deeper into his reservoir of power to beat Cell.
Have you given up on me sir?

50% SSj2 Gohan's KHH > SPC KHH.

This is all you need to know.
I'm honestly having a bit of a problem with this multi-quote format so I'm honeslty just going around posting here and there now.

as for 50% Ssj2 Gohan being stronger than SPC...

No.

It's outright stated at this point that Cell was stronger than Gohan.
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