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did gohan turn ssj or ssj 2 to defeat broly?
Topic Started: Sep 15 2012, 05:56 PM (19,684 Views)
Sircum
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Did you just say Broly is Frieza level?


Well ***** me, please.
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Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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If you guys wanna talk about whether or not Goku was there (Japanese subs):

Son Gohan: Our power is not enough! We need more power! Shen Long, please, help!
[Dragonballs glow, Goku appears]
Son Goten: Shen Long brought dad here!

But then Narrator trolls and says whether or not Goku was there is a question nobody could answer. But methinks that since the wish was that they needed more power, Goku transformed to SSJ and probably SSJ2 just at the Final Push, and contributed his own KHH, Goku added more power.
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Sircum
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""Goku, it's possible that his power may even be greater than that of you guys."

"Wow! He's that strong!" Goku got excited, he tries to sense Broly's ki. "There it is, it's weak but it's definitely Saiyan Ki!"

He arrived. "He ain't here, but for him to leave this incredible Ki behind..."

"This is the Ki I felt, it could be like Kaio-Sama was saying his power is higher than even ours!"

So it's proven that RSSJ Broly > MSSJ Goku and Gohan.


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Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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Oh yeah, for Gohan/Goku SSJ or SSJ2:

Posted Image

http://i47.tinypic.com/rk8w1w.png

Decide for yourself, lol.

Especially seeing that Goten still has clear SSJ hair w/ multiple bangs, even with "wind", hmmmm.....
Edited by Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs, Sep 16 2012, 10:10 PM.
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Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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And then Gohan before the KHH struggle:

Posted Image

Toughie.
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Brofist
Sep 16 2012, 10:05 PM
Kamikaze Pyro
Sep 16 2012, 09:55 PM
Brofist
Sep 16 2012, 09:53 PM
Same thing as mentioned above, if Bio-Broly was created from Broly's DNA, and unlike the real Broly, never had the time for his powers to grow, nor even go through his basic cycles of life from childhood to adult, or if so, it was heavily rushed, then by all means shouldn't Bio Broly be even weaker than Freeza?
Not when he wrecked the Super Saiyan kids, who would casually defecate in Freeza's mouth in just their regular states. :cool:
That still doesn't make much sense though.

Broly movie 8 who with his 10,000 original PL as a baby, SSj and the LSSJ along with the years of whatever he did with his father which may or may not have included fights or even a zenkai or two,

Bio Broly who had a severe time restraint on himself, didn't have any sort of possiblities for something like training or even zenkais and by your very remarks, since he's only a clone he shouldn't be as strong anyways, then, I see no way that Bio Broly should even be on 100% Freeza's level, much less SSj Goten and SSj Trunks.

DNA doesn't change, unless through mutations. Which is kind of why I'm wanting a note on if the fluid was ever said to have weakend Broly. If you had movie 8 broly's DNA, than you should have the basics of movie 8 Broly's power level before SSj or LSSj. As I said, this would be 10,000. Adding in SSj and a utterly high LSSj form would only put Broly at Freeza's level and unlike movie 8 Broly, doesn't have said necessities of training, zenkais, etc.
Well, that is what we're shown. :(
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."


Quote:
 
A) Opinion. Tell me this:
When Goku says RSSJ Broly > MSSj Goku, meaning RSSJ Broly ~ Cell that fought Goku...
What does that make LSSj Broly? Sure as hell stronger than FP PC.

B) No he can't. Which is why he got obliterated by Goku, and again by Gohan.

C) LSSJ Broly (M8) is SPC level, he is much much higher than FP PC.
Broly was distracted from Gohan, surely you don't have Trunks = Fat Buu when Trunks kicked an off guard Fat Buu away?

2 Amplified SSj2 Kamehameha's + 1 SSj Kamehameha = SSj3 level, low tier.

C.2) It has to be higher for the Cell arc.

D) It never said Broly's power decreasing...


A.) MSSJ Goku being weaker than RSSJ Broly doesn't mean anything in regards to SPC.

SPC>Full Powered Perfect Cell>Suppressed Perfect Cell>MSSJ Gohan>MSSJ Goku. And by all means people, Gohan included, were outright shocked at how much stronger he was than his father. meaning there's actually a significant gap between MSSJ Gohan and MSSJ Goku. With that said and done, if we see each ">" as gap then:

SPC>>>>MSSJ Goku.

Broly would easily be around the suppressed Perfect Cell to the full powered perfect cell through the feats we've seen. There's nothing we see Broly do that Cell couldn't have done his Full powered Perfect Form and even more so in his SPC form.

B.) We have no idea what kind of amplifier the Kamehameha wave has, not without it contradicting other certain points. There is no basis whatsoever in saying that 2 SSj2 Kamehameha's and one SSj should equal an SSj3. Especially when SSj2 Movie 10 Gohan can visibly break out of Brolys grip using sheer strength. Plus its' already established that Broly fights at his full power (Though his seriousness might be in question) due to his ever increasing ki that must be released every so often.

Unless you have movie 10 Gohan as a very low or moderate SSj2 and Broly on the higher end of the scale. Then there is no way Broly would come near the SSj3 gap and the Kamehameha and its amplifier especially going by what happened with Raditz, should've been enough as SSJs against Broly by the logic your using.

C) No, Movie 8 Broly isn't near SPC.

There is no point, whatsoever that LSSJ movie 8 Broly would be on SPC level. At best he's around Full Powered Perfect Cell.

And as far as the Freeza comment goes, if you read my post, which you obviously didn't. You'd realize that I was speaking in regards to the way Broly's power should have been. DNA as I said before doesn't change, if you clone someone, you clone them with their exact traits. Bio-Broly by your own words, didn't decrease in power. Bio-Broly lacks any of the possible advantages that his real self had, be it training, zenkais etc. Meaning that he shouldn't have come near Freeza's level (and that's with giving him a unbelievably substantial increase in his LSSJ multiplier.)

Quote:
 
Well, that is what we're shown. :(


Well I'm just going to say that's some pretty crazy logic we've going on, even for Toei and it still doesn't change my point in Broly's power being inconsistent throughout the movies.
Edited by EMIYA, Sep 16 2012, 10:32 PM.
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Bio-Broly seemed to be an exact clone of LSSjin Broly from Movie 8, same appearance and all. The ooze was stated to weaken him, I believe, otherwise he'd have never been touched by the kids. I'll try scoping out the line.
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Sircum
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Brofist
Sep 16 2012, 10:26 PM

Quote:
 
A) Opinion. Tell me this:
When Goku says RSSJ Broly > MSSj Goku, meaning RSSJ Broly ~ Cell that fought Goku...
What does that make LSSj Broly? Sure as hell stronger than FP PC.

B) No he can't. Which is why he got obliterated by Goku, and again by Gohan.

C) LSSJ Broly (M8) is SPC level, he is much much higher than FP PC.
Broly was distracted from Gohan, surely you don't have Trunks = Fat Buu when Trunks kicked an off guard Fat Buu away?

2 Amplified SSj2 Kamehameha's + 1 SSj Kamehameha = SSj3 level, low tier.

C.2) It has to be higher for the Cell arc.

D) It never said Broly's power decreasing...


A.) MSSJ Goku being weaker than RSSJ Broly doesn't mean anything in regards to SPC.

SPC>Full Powered Perfect Cell>Suppressed Perfect Cell>MSSJ Gohan>MSSJ Goku. And by all means people, Gohan included, were outright shocked at how much stronger he was than his father. meaning there's actually a significant gap between MSSJ Gohan and MSSJ Goku. With that said and done, if we see each ">" as gap then:

SPC>>>>MSSJ Goku.

Broly would easily be around the suppressed Perfect Cell to the full powered perfect cell through the feats we've seen. There's nothing we see Broly do that Cell couldn't have done his Full powered Perfect Form and even more so in his SPC form.

B.) We have no idea what kind of amplifier the Kamehameha wave has, not without it contradicting other certain points. There is no basis whatsoever in saying that 2 SSj2 Kamehameha's and one SSj should equal an SSj3. Especially when SSj2 Movie 10 Gohan can visibly break out of Brolys grip using sheer strength. Plus its' already established that Broly fights at his full power (Though his seriousness might be in question) due to his ever increasing ki that must be released every so often.

Unless you have movie 10 Gohan as a very low or moderate SSj2 and Broly on the higher end of the scale. Then there is no way Broly would come near the SSj3 gap and the Kamehameha and its amplifier especially going by what happened with Raditz, should've been enough as SSJs against Broly by the logic your using.

C) No, Movie 8 Broly isn't near SPC.

There is no point, whatsoever that LSSJ movie 8 Broly would be on SPC level. At best he's around Full Powered Perfect Cell.

And as far as the Freeza comment goes, if you read my post, which you obviously didn't. You'd realize that I was speaking in regards to the way Broly's power should have been. DNA as I said before doesn't change, if you clone someone, you clone them with their exact traits. Bio-Broly by your own words, didn't decrease in power. Bio-Broly lacks any of the possible advantages that his real self had, be it training, zenkais etc. Meaning that he shouldn't have come near Freeza's level (and that's with giving him a unbelievably substantial increase in his LSSJ multiplier.)
A) So many things wrong with this:

1. RSSj Broly > MSSj Goku.


2. FP PC's KHH > SSj2 Gohan.
MSSj Goku's KHH against Broly > FP PC
SSj2 Gohan's KHH used to deflect FP PC's KHH >>> FP PC
SSj2 Gohan's KHH against SPC >> SPC's KHH

This is how amplifiers work.


"Broly would easily be around the suppressed Perfect Cell to the full powered perfect cell through the feats we've seen. There's nothing we see Broly do that Cell couldn't have done his Full powered Perfect Form and even more so in his SPC form."

Really? Tell me how Cell can tank Goku's KHH when he got obliterated :)

B) It's easy. Use the same amp from the KHH Goku used on Cell, with the one he used on Broly.

C) Yes he is. At the least Movie 8 Broly > FP PC. At the least.
Edited by Sircum, Sep 16 2012, 10:33 PM.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Kamikaze Pyro
Sep 16 2012, 10:31 PM
Bio-Broly seemed to be an exact clone of LSSjin Broly from Movie 8, same appearance and all. The ooze was stated to weaken him, I believe, otherwise he'd have never been touched by the kids. I'll try scoping out the line.
If you can, that would be great because then it would actually make sense. You have someone like movie 8 Broly, who by all means should cubstomp SSj Goten and Trunks suddenly starts having difficulties with them in movie 11. If the fluids actually did do something and you have a line or something for it, I'd be all willing to believe it.
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Sircum
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Brofist
Sep 16 2012, 10:34 PM
Kamikaze Pyro
Sep 16 2012, 10:31 PM
Bio-Broly seemed to be an exact clone of LSSjin Broly from Movie 8, same appearance and all. The ooze was stated to weaken him, I believe, otherwise he'd have never been touched by the kids. I'll try scoping out the line.
If you can, that would be great because then it would actually make sense. You have someone like movie 8 Broly, who by all means should cubstomp SSj Goten and Trunks suddenly starts having difficulties with them in movie 11. If the fluids actually did do something and you have a line or something for it, I'd be all willing to believe it.
Did you see the movie? He never got curb stomped. Bio-Broly lost to water.

Try again.
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Brofist
Sep 16 2012, 10:34 PM
Kamikaze Pyro
Sep 16 2012, 10:31 PM
Bio-Broly seemed to be an exact clone of LSSjin Broly from Movie 8, same appearance and all. The ooze was stated to weaken him, I believe, otherwise he'd have never been touched by the kids. I'll try scoping out the line.
If you can, that would be great because then it would actually make sense. You have someone like movie 8 Broly, who by all means should cubstomp SSj Goten and Trunks suddenly starts having difficulties with them in movie 11. If the fluids actually did do something and you have a line or something for it, I'd be all willing to believe it.

Will do.
Sircum
Sep 16 2012, 10:35 PM
Brofist
Sep 16 2012, 10:34 PM
Kamikaze Pyro
Sep 16 2012, 10:31 PM
Bio-Broly seemed to be an exact clone of LSSjin Broly from Movie 8, same appearance and all. The ooze was stated to weaken him, I believe, otherwise he'd have never been touched by the kids. I'll try scoping out the line.
If you can, that would be great because then it would actually make sense. You have someone like movie 8 Broly, who by all means should cubstomp SSj Goten and Trunks suddenly starts having difficulties with them in movie 11. If the fluids actually did do something and you have a line or something for it, I'd be all willing to believe it.
Did you see the movie? He never got curb stomped. Bio-Broly lost to water.

Try again.

He was saying Broly should've curbstomped the kids. :yay:
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Is this seriously still going on? Designs, artwork, and what happened > "What makes sense".

nimbus, that was gonna be my avatar!! :'(
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Sircum
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Kamikaze Pyro
Sep 16 2012, 10:39 PM
Brofist
Sep 16 2012, 10:34 PM
Kamikaze Pyro
Sep 16 2012, 10:31 PM
Bio-Broly seemed to be an exact clone of LSSjin Broly from Movie 8, same appearance and all. The ooze was stated to weaken him, I believe, otherwise he'd have never been touched by the kids. I'll try scoping out the line.
If you can, that would be great because then it would actually make sense. You have someone like movie 8 Broly, who by all means should cubstomp SSj Goten and Trunks suddenly starts having difficulties with them in movie 11. If the fluids actually did do something and you have a line or something for it, I'd be all willing to believe it.

Will do.
Sircum
Sep 16 2012, 10:35 PM
Brofist
Sep 16 2012, 10:34 PM
Kamikaze Pyro
Sep 16 2012, 10:31 PM
Bio-Broly seemed to be an exact clone of LSSjin Broly from Movie 8, same appearance and all. The ooze was stated to weaken him, I believe, otherwise he'd have never been touched by the kids. I'll try scoping out the line.
If you can, that would be great because then it would actually make sense. You have someone like movie 8 Broly, who by all means should cubstomp SSj Goten and Trunks suddenly starts having difficulties with them in movie 11. If the fluids actually did do something and you have a line or something for it, I'd be all willing to believe it.
Did you see the movie? He never got curb stomped. Bio-Broly lost to water.

Try again.

He was saying Broly should've curbstomped the kids. :yay:
Derp. My mistake.

Anyways, he has yet to discredit what I wrote above that though.
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I've been thinking about it and realized that Gohan's fight against SSJ Broly in base shouldn't be interpreted as an excuse to make Gohan super-strong as it should be to make Broly weak.

It doesn't contradict anything at all, because chances are? Gohan is probably stronger than the SSJ kids in base in the CANON. The second 18 finds out it's the kids and she knows what amount of power to use? She finishes them, flat.

Base Gohan is easily above the SSJ Kids, who I'd place at around maybe 25% Final Form Freeza at best, because otherwise? You can't fit in the gaps with Base Goku Boo Saga being weaker than Full Power Freeza.

Gohan would be 2x Goten, Goku 2x this. Just equal to Max Freeza, the highest any Saiyan is getting to in base, but even this I find illogical, because then he'd be STRONGER than this at Oob. And that's just silly, so I'd say 10% Freeza fits better.

Yeah, and I don't think those Daiz concept art or whatever of Gohan is showing two distinct forms, unless you think Gohan is SSJ2 at Goten in their sparring session. It's just showing a relaxed SSJ Gohan, and a full power SSJ Gohan.

No lightning? No SSJ2. A simple concept to grasp. Gohan has to be angry to go SSJ2, simple. He goes SSJ2 at Budokai because he saw Videl getting trashed. He didn't at Dabra because he had nothing to be angry about.

So assuming SSJ Broly is around the tier of Base Gohan? And LSSJ Broly than trashes SSJ Gohan? SSJ2 Gohan trashes LSSJ Broly. Again, Gohan was his canon counterpart, nothing to contradict it. Gohan saying he powered up was simply because M8 Gohan < M10 Gohan = Canon Gohan < Cell Games Gohan. The M8 Z-Fighters were weaker than the canon Z-Fighters, Cell Games retconned their power, Gohan's statement was to tidy it up.

So LSSJ Broly is maybe a bit higher than Dabra, who regarded the SSJ Gohan he fought as trash.
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