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"Daizenshuu is fake"
Topic Started: Sep 15 2012, 12:46 PM (7,998 Views)
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If Toei wrote the Daiz it'd probably be considered even less canon than it is now :P Barring the anime stuff of course.

Personally I think the Daiz is helpful for things that don't contradict the manga, but in the end it was written by people who didn't work on the manga. Unless Toriyama specifically told them this stuff then what they write should honestly have no real authority over what fans think since both are just opinions coming from people who read the manga but never worked on it.
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@F: You do need to consider that, not only did Daiz get published at all, AT approved it.

So, unless it contradicts the manga, it's fine...which is what we've been saying the past few pages. :)
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My God, do you people ever understand the definitions of the words you throw around for GT or the guidebooks? It doesn't look like it, since you apparently have no idea what "fake" means. The manga is "fake." Movies are fake. Of course the daizenshuu are "fake."
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In Gohans Bio it states that Gohan didnt use SSJ 2 after Volume 37 (I believe its that one) which is the end of the bodokai, and hasnt yeat shown the fight with dabura.

Dabura's Bio states Gohan was SSJ 2.

Another is that it states Recoome killed Gohan... But thats kinda obviously NOT TRUE.
And that recoome's attack was meant to take out all three of them (Veggie , gohan , and Krillin) but was only aimed at Vegeta.

There are more, and Ill add them shortly, but I would like to confirm my research. Stay tuned.

EDIT: Here we go This is all I feel Like searching through for now. But there are a handful of more.

*Daizenshuu 1 has a pic of 3rd form Freeza, but states it as 2nd Form.

*Daizenshuu 2 States SSJ Vegeta appeared in Volume 32 when it was actually 29
" States Kaioshin appeared in Volume 39 when it was 37.
" Misses some battles, that may not be considered battles, but includes things like Goku V Fish... Soooo
*Daizenshuu 4 states Buu used Goku's Instant Transmission, but it was actually Shin Konido which is Kaioshin's type of teleportation.

*Daizenshuu 7 Tenshinhan's profile lists one of his battles was against no.19, while it actually was against no.17
" 17 uses Kienzan
" Goten was born while Goku fought cell
" Goku's first KHH was used on Tenshinhan, but it was actually Jackie Chun he used it on
" Bra born in 780 in one part of the book, and then later stated to be born in 778.
" The timeline has other errors. Like Yamcha meet, and defeat, and so on.
" Its states Goku stayed dead longer than a year for the saiyans, but he was only dead for a little over 11.
Also dont forget that over the official PL lists from V-Jump, SEG and so on, there are some literaly factual errors, like Piccolo Diamao's 260, despite tenshinhan being 250 at the start of Z and the fact that Weighted Goku from Piccolo Jr being > Piccolo D and Tein being on par with that goku

The list goes on.

http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8478697&t=8361278

The ownage count goes on. What is this, the fourth time I've owned you with the same damn post? Twice on here before, then on Neoseeker, and now once again here. Please, come back and post the same disproven BS.
Edited by Pyrus, Sep 15 2012, 10:37 PM.
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Kira L Yagami
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Kyouka Suigetsu
Sep 15 2012, 05:16 PM
@Freeze: You clearly didn't take the time to read my post fully and understand it, despite the fact that it's one of the shortest, simplest ones here.

The Daiz has its faults. These shouldn't be taken seriously if the manga contradicts it, because Manga > Daiz. But if the manga doesn't contradict it, then it's good, because Daiz > You and Me. Everything should be taken with a grain of salt.

^ Did you process all that, or need I repeat myself again?
yes, i read it......dude, how is the daizenshuu>you and me if its just contradicting ITSELF??
we dont contradict ourselves when we speak something, do we??
Edited by Kira L Yagami, Sep 16 2012, 04:15 PM.
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Kyouka Suigetsu
Sep 15 2012, 05:16 PM
@Freeze: You clearly didn't take the time to read my post fully and understand it, despite the fact that it's one of the shortest, simplest ones here.

The Daiz has its faults. These shouldn't be taken seriously if the manga contradicts it, because Manga > Daiz. But if the manga doesn't contradict it, then it's good, because Daiz > You and Me. Everything should be taken with a grain of salt.

^ Did you process all that, or need I repeat myself again?


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Kira L Yagami
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Kyouka Suigetsu
Sep 16 2012, 04:17 PM
Kyouka Suigetsu
Sep 15 2012, 05:16 PM
@Freeze: You clearly didn't take the time to read my post fully and understand it, despite the fact that it's one of the shortest, simplest ones here.

The Daiz has its faults. These shouldn't be taken seriously if the manga contradicts it, because Manga > Daiz. But if the manga doesn't contradict it, then it's good, because Daiz > You and Me. Everything should be taken with a grain of salt.

^ Did you process all that, or need I repeat myself again?


sorry but i dont get what exactly youre trying to convey......
the main question is why????
"But if the manga doesn't contradict it, then it's good"....WHY??
"because Daiz > You and Me"....WHY??
"Everything should be taken with a grain of salt".....WHY??
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Sircum
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Freeze7005
Sep 16 2012, 04:34 PM
Kyouka Suigetsu
Sep 16 2012, 04:17 PM
Kyouka Suigetsu
Sep 15 2012, 05:16 PM
@Freeze: You clearly didn't take the time to read my post fully and understand it, despite the fact that it's one of the shortest, simplest ones here.

The Daiz has its faults. These shouldn't be taken seriously if the manga contradicts it, because Manga > Daiz. But if the manga doesn't contradict it, then it's good, because Daiz > You and Me. Everything should be taken with a grain of salt.

^ Did you process all that, or need I repeat myself again?


sorry but i dont get what exactly youre trying to convey......
the main question is why????
"But if the manga doesn't contradict it, then it's good"....WHY??
"because Daiz > You and Me"....WHY??
"Everything should be taken with a grain of salt".....WHY??
"the daiz is fake" WHYYY?
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If the manga doesn't contradict it, it's fine......AT approved it, and AT would be pretty stupid if he approved a guidebook with false information all throughout....

Daiz is > Us, as long as the manga doesn't contradict it, because AT approved it...if the manga contradicts a certain bit in the Daiz, then We > Daiz...

Everything should be taken with a grain of salt because not everything in the Daiz is to be trusted, of course....but the whole thing isn't .... "fake"....
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Paikuan extreme
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Sircum
Sep 15 2012, 05:30 PM
Paikuan extreme
Sep 15 2012, 05:01 PM
yo ustill cant prove it, in all reality? i can think what i want, and you cant debunk my opinion, or whatever it is ur trying to say.

In the meantime, ive proven toei doesnt care about auras OR lightning, or the fact that they werent specific about why broly was stronger in movie 10, nor said by how much, telling me that he is stronger than (movie)goku in MSSj for movie 10 instead of gohan makes no sense, it also doesnt help your belief to insert this gohan with main gohan when the producer himself said that broly was setup to be the strongest SUPER SAIYAN. You cant deny it no matter how much you want. It's a belief that has taken hold yet cant be proven,based on fitting it in the timeline. Sorry sircum. You cant debunk something you cant unprove.

In the meantime, get some real evidence gohan was ssj2 or just leave it alone, ive seen enough to be convinced otherwise. Movie 11 being in my corner for what actually happened.

not to mention the wishful thinking of some of you that think it MATTERS that Ssj3 goku was released in the mnaga before the release of this movie x D good luck with that.

Gohans dream to be as strong as his dad was a failure, and you have no reason to believe this gohan is connected to movie gohan so much, when even toriyama made a HUGE difference between the TWO gohans he actually created.

let me guess, according to your logic, futures past gohan was an SSj2 against the cyborgs. why not? he had the same spiky aura everyone else in the movies do.
Nothing had lightning except SSj3 after Movie 9.

so then goten, trunks and kuririn are ssj2 level in movie 11? its the only way your theory could possibly fit, especially if bio broly really is weaker.

Otherwise, it could easily be post budokai training and or rosat training.

But my points for believing broly and gohan were only super saiyans makes more sense to me everytime i think about it.

So many following an illogical chain came to same conclusion, if ssj broly equals perfect cell or even slightly stronge due to movie hax? then LSSj broly should be stronger than SPC or Kid gohan.

real talk. Teen gohan would lose to kid gohan just as bad as the movie 10 gohan did to broly.

freeze framing shots for a full on power blast, knowing gokus hair being blown back is the reason his bang is hanging forward was something i had to point out. Gohans hair confused alot of people and such to those who were trying to tie broly into the main time line and fit him in went crazy over which one he SHOULD be, as opposed to the one he is.

The gohan from movie 8. Who if he was anything like the real gohan instead of just being drawn for relatability to whomever is watching, would have been stronger than goku, and able to take on broly in a large capacity. He didnt, no, he couldnt.

I also dont believe broly was given some god like hax zenkai anymore. If he is only just stronger in ssj than movie goku, then he isnt that much stronger than manga goku. Toriyama would probably say, Not a noticeable amount would broly be much stronger in ssj, but he is, it doesnt mean his LSSj form outstrips goku in ssj2, or equal to ssj3. Broly should in reality be as strong or stronger than pikkon. Who was stronger than SPC, and thats haxxing him IMHO from now on.

Although in most movies admittedly UNTIL movie 7, goku in ssj was stronger than anime goku. Who was haxxed also.

So movie goku<manga goku<=anime goku

I mean for all we know,movie goku with all the power of the underworld behind him, in s uper hax move, had broly rocked back by pikkon who WOULDNT be afraid to attack, would knock pikkon out and make goku go ssj to throw a spirit bomb. It COULD happen. Its anyones guess.

Thats why i demand a movie for the final confrontation. make a movie where some idiot uses the dragon balls to wish broly back because they hate goku for some indescribable reason, set it sometime after boo, and just go with it.

after that? i dont care who wins, i just want an answer. But for right now?

i believe LSSj broly movie 10<kid gohan < SPC

Meaning that it would put him dead even with goku in ssj2. I know this reflects my beliefs. But i jiust dont believe its plausible for broly to only be stronger than goku in SSj, and have a super hax that knocks him up two more forms of power.

The ssj2 is a huge boost from ssj, and since broly only has ssj, and in movie 10 is as strong as FP perfect cell? then i see no reason for the hax boost putting broly past ssj2 an into ssj3 simply because it was released in the comic WHILE the movie was being produced.

My logic is sound for my beliefs. Just you guys have sound logic for yours, until you haxxed him into ssj3 territory.

Teen gohan in movie 10 was not that strong, and if broly was a top tier ssj2 against goku and the others? they wouldnt be able to put a dent in him anyways, not with replenish able ki like he's got.

In my belief goku would have to end the fight pretty quick, unless they are in the underworld. Then it can go all day.

Goku runs low on juice though? its over.

and then the fight would look alot like this.

otherwise, movie 10 gohan IS powerful, in his own right, he worked hard for all those years to get as strong as goku. His base feats against ssj broly though are what make the fight even more dumb if gohan really IS SSj2. Makes no sense for gohan to go up two forms and broly only one and dominate him so badly. SSj broly did a full on power up before going int othe sky with gohan chasing him. Gohan was gonna TANK that bomb broly threw until it changed direction. Wait....gohan was gonna tANK that?

wow :|

So for gohan to get with broly in ssj with NO fear, and or real repercussions for doing so, and then goes into ssj2 which would make him 4 times stronger than he is in base, and broly goes to LSSj, and for NO reason he dominates? why? the only explanation that makes sense? is that broly is haxxed to make him look good. but why? there is no need to hax the legendary super saiyan. This movie is obviously pre budokai, so that factors in also.

thats what made me question the popular beliefs in the first place, no one else seemed to notice. Or care.

weak explanations dont make a good explanation. Hax is crap, there is no need to hax broly, he is already there.

when i first got here, i believed that not only did this take place in the same timeline? it happened with ssj2 gohan never slacking off in his training and getting that much stronger. It made sense to me, till i learned from others here to start paying more attention. haxxing broly past ssj2 is unjustifiable.





Edited by Paikuan extreme, Sep 16 2012, 05:44 PM.
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You do realize that
LSSJ Broly < SSj2 Kid Gohan < SPC means that SPC >> LSSj Broly (M10) right?

Goten and Trunks were never SSj2 in M11, but Goku and Vegeta were both SSj2 in Movie 13. SSj3 Goku had no lightning in Movie 13, only Gotenks did.

In Movie 12, only SSj3 Goku had lightning.

SSj2 Gohan (M10) > SSj2 Kid Gohan

LSSj Broly >>> SSj2 Gohan > SSj2 Kid Gohan > SPC

SSj Broly > MSSj Goku

LSSj Broly >> SSj2 Goku.

I do not see how this is not dead obvious.
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Movie 12 Goku never had any lightning that we could see, even when he did have an aura (when he was going Super Saiyan 3 doesn't count), and he was obviously Super Saiyan 2 due to his hairstyle.

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Neither Goku nor Vegeta have lightning in Movie 13, despite being obvious Super Saiyan 2s.

Why do people keep saying lightning is used to determine a Super Saiyan 2 in Toei productions? They clearly had no intention of using it the way Toriyama did. They used it whenever they felt like, on Super Saiyans or even normal fighters or attacks.
Edited by Pyrus, Sep 16 2012, 07:09 PM.
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Toei didn't even give lightning to SSj2 Vegeta vs Kid Buu despite the fact Toriyama did.

They never really thought it was a big deal, and I kind of agree. If it wasn't for debating DBZ (Which was never the purpose of the show) then I probably would have never noticed this stuff >_>
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Kira L Yagami
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Sircum
Sep 16 2012, 05:47 PM
You do realize that
LSSJ Broly < SSj2 Kid Gohan < SPC means that SPC >> LSSj Broly (M10) right?

Goten and Trunks were never SSj2 in M11, but Goku and Vegeta were both SSj2 in Movie 13. SSj3 Goku had no lightning in Movie 13, only Gotenks did.

In Movie 12, only SSj3 Goku had lightning.

SSj2 Gohan (M10) > SSj2 Kid Gohan

LSSj Broly >>> SSj2 Gohan > SSj2 Kid Gohan > SPC

SSj Broly > MSSj Goku

LSSj Broly >> SSj2 Goku.

I do not see how this is not dead obvious.
movie 10 LSSJ broly>ssj2 kid gohan but not by much.
manga wise, sp cell is a little weaker than kid gohan

but ssj3 goku>>>>>lssj broly
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Do you think SSjin 2 Kid Gohan could survive a combined Kamehameha from SSjin 2 Goku (Boo Saga), SSjin 2 Teen Gohan, and SSjin Goten? You'd have to in order to keep M10 LSSjin Broly as low as a little bit stronger than SSjin 2 Kid Gohan.
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Broly is >>> any SSJ2.

You could place him smack-dab in-between SSJ2 and SSJ3 Goku. Using 10x:

SSJ2 Goku - 1
Broly - 5.5
SSJ3 Goku - 10

?
Edited by Kyouks, Sep 17 2012, 11:08 PM.
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