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Base Saiyans surpassing 100% Frieza ?
Topic Started: Jun 6 2012, 01:53 PM (14,203 Views)
Super Vegetto
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amsmagic
Jun 6 2012, 07:16 PM
I almost can't beleive this debate is raging on. It's immensely simple if you ask me.
MSSJ Goku is <= Perfect Cell. That is a fact.

Perfect Cell is >>>>>>>>>> to 100% Frieza. That is a fact.

If Goku can almost equal perfect cell as a SSJ, he can murder Frieza at base. If that's not enough proof, that's look at other aspects shall we? And please let's forget all the z sword non sense. It's all irrelevant.

First of all, Gohan at Super Boo will one shot 100% Frieza. Technically, he is at base. But your about to argue that it doesn't count because he had his potential unlocked and is called "Mystic.". Well that's not true. He is still in base form, he never transforms. It's his power. But I know you won't take this, so let's look at yet another aspect.

Pui Pui. Vegeta one shots him in base. Personally, I have Pui Pui below Saiyan Saga Vegeta, but people have already proved to me that my evidence is anime based, so I can't judge Pui Pui. I have heard he is above Frieza 50%. If that's the case, and Vegeta base One Shots him.... Then Vegeta base can definitely handle 100% Frieza. But still, you could argue and say Pui Pui is not that strong, so let's look at yet another... Aspect.

It's the eating time! Let's get the popcorn and soda ready. Enjoy the show.

Base Goku (Namek) <<< 100% Frieza
SSJ Goku (Namek) > 100% Frieza.

SSJ Future Trunks (Mecha Frieza) <<< Frieza.
SSJ Goku (Mecha Frieza) = SSJ Future Trunks (Mecha Frieza)

So SSJ Goku is now >>> to Frieza instead of >
That puts Goku's base now < to Frieza, and it's only the android Saga.

Over the course of cell, and finding MSSJ, and SSJ2 and SSJ3, I find base Goku to >>>> Frieza 100%, because he was already catching up by the android saga.


Thoughts anyone?
Perfect Cell is suppressed in fight against Goku. That is a fact.

Goku can incrise his SSJ power level and he got stronger since his 3 mill on Namek. Its not fact that his base neads to be above Freiza to be equal to suppressed Cell. Its your opinion and your power levels.

He is in base and got magical power from Z sword so he doesnt count.

Its Gohans dorment powers not powers he has in base or in SSJ form.


In the end its your power gaps and your opinion.
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Billa
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Thala na Gethu!

Super Vegetto
Jun 6 2012, 03:25 PM
Sry man but its not simple. Android 18 is toying with kids.
What are ta talkin?

She went all-out in their fight IIRC.
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GridZero
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Gohan did get power from training the Z Sword. That's a fact.
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Super Vegetto
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Chou Supa Saiyajin Suri
Jun 6 2012, 11:08 PM
Super Vegetto
Jun 6 2012, 03:25 PM
Sry man but its not simple. Android 18 is toying with kids.
What are ta talkin?

She went all-out in their fight IIRC.
Went all out ? Even Krillin sad to not kill anyone. If she started to fight and punched a guy with full power he would be dead.

She is suppressed and there is a statment where Krillin says that because he knows how strong is 18 compered to humans.

Btw 18 didnt knowed Mighty mask is kids so you got a point of not going all out + base kids couldnt lay a punch on her.


Edited by Super Vegetto, Jun 6 2012, 11:25 PM.
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Super Vegetto
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GridZero
Jun 6 2012, 11:10 PM
Gohan did get power from training the Z Sword. That's a fact.
Magical. Unless you think that one weight training can get him so strong.
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Ryuuzaki
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18 was stronger than Base Kids , after all , they can't move so good , but in Super Saiyans they can kill 18 with a ki blast.
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Super Vegetto
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One proof of why we shouldnt use Boo saga as everything stated :

There are those who say Gohan is SSJ against Dabura. Pictures of kili metars :

3000

Posted Image

Over 13000

Posted Image

Dabura still says that he will fights 3 of them at once and to tell the truth is he insane for telling this after seeing kili metar ?

Yet we have those who say Gohan is only SSJ against him.
Edited by Super Vegetto, Jun 6 2012, 11:17 PM.
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amsmagic
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The Magic Man. Aka Street Magician

Super Vegetto
Jun 6 2012, 11:11 PM
GridZero
Jun 6 2012, 11:10 PM
Gohan did get power from training the Z Sword. That's a fact.
Magical. Unless you think that one weight training can get him so strong.
Your almost as bad as pak123456 right now, so Imma bounce out. To me, and to everybody else, the evidence is irrefutable. You can walk around in la la land if you want, or maybe make your own movie where your logic is true. Movies seem to defy logic.

I'm out, have fun with a pointless debate everybody. :)
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Typing from an iPad. Please excuse any and all typo's or meaningless errors. Typing with two thumbs that are holding a 9.7" Portait screen is more difficult than I planned. Lol.
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Super Vegetto
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Lol mr right is going out of this topic.


Thats it, someone say to moderator to close this topic. After all its only everybodys opinon and not what is stated like mr right thinks.
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Billa
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Thala na Gethu!

Wow, I feel the topic is drivin in a wrong direction, somewhow.

Amsmagic, chill pal.
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Kblo247
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Vegeta SSJ2
Jun 6 2012, 11:14 PM
18 was stronger than Base Kids , after all , they can't move so good , but in Super Saiyans they can kill 18 with a ki blast.
Yeah if she let it hit. They could have also killed her daughter in the stadium with how reckless they were so she cut their costume.


The anime makes it seem like she can take the SSJ boys though which is where the confusion comes from. She in the anime after realizing who they are when they transform says "A couple of super saiyans, huh. Well they are mine now" which implies she was also greatly holding back because she knew Mighty Mask wasn't normal but didn't want to kill him by putting too much power behind anything, and can crank it up to put the SSJ boys pre ROSAT in their place. Of course it all goes out the window after the blast.
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Duper Vegerot
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In my opinion, every time any one of these discussions appears, they should immediately be closed. Nothing good comes of these topics.
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Super Vegetto
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If you start reading from the start i mentioned that i dont whant this to becomes How strong is Kaioshin debate and whanted other proof.

And somehow this happend. One guy leaves from debate with thinking how he is right while its just an opinion.


No point to prove anything because there is probably no proof. I guess its better to close this debate.
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Duper Vegerot
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Even without taking Kaioshin into account, it's easy to have the Base Saiyans stronger than 100% Freeza through power scaling and ignoring Ssj multipliers.

Goku became 19-20x stronger after training with North Kaio, and 10-12x stronger after training in 100x gravity. Training on Earth for the arrival of the Androids would have a lesser benefit, but Goku had partners to train with Piccolo and Gohan, so the benefit should still be great.

Then training in the time chamber should have a tremendous benefit due to the thin air, 10x gravity, temperature fluctuations, and training with a partner. Much better than training on earth, and probably just as good if not better than training with North Kaio.

Then there's seven years of hard training for Goku and Vegeta, both pushing their limits with weight and gravity training. Should be about as beneficial as the training for the Androids since there's not a hostile environment to train in.

So Goku came back from Yardrat with a bit more power than when he was on Namek. He didn't get a zenkai after battling Freeza, but just being in the battle would raise his power level by a bit. Let's say Goku raises to 5 million. Sounds pretty reasonable.

Then, he trains with Piccolo and Gohan for 3 years. The training should yield benefits similar to when Goku trained with North Kaio, so Goku should increase his power by 10x, and this puts him at 50 million. Even being conservative with havign Goku only 5x stronger, he's as high as 25 million.

After training in the Time Chamber Goku should be 10-20x stronger, since training in the chamber is so intense, so Goku would be at 500 million to 1 billion. If you want to be conservative and have Goku only rise by 5x, that still puts him at 125 million, which is higher than Freeza.

And then, seven years later, being conservative, Goku should be at least 2-3x as strong as he was before, putting his power level at least as high as 250 million in base.

So even if Goku only raised his power by 5x for every time skip and training session, he'd still be higher than Freeza, even ignoring Ssj.

We can even pick Goku directly out of the fight with Freeza and raise his power level higher than 100% Freeza easily:
Namek Goku: 3,000,000
x5 Android Training: 15,000,000
x5 Time Chamber Training: 75,000,000
x5 Seven year time skip: 375,000,000

Even being conservative, Goku and the base Saiyans destroy 100% Freeza by the Buu arc.
Edited by Duper Vegerot, Jun 7 2012, 12:22 AM.
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Super Vegetto
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Wow you still dont give up. Vegeta trained 3 years in 300x gravity and he should be in gap where Goku cant chatch him but no.

Those are your numbers and not what is stated. I wont even ask about your Piccolo from ( Freiza saga ) to Piccolo ( android saga ) power level because you proved that Vegeta is nothing compered to Goku.
Edited by Super Vegetto, Jun 7 2012, 12:34 AM.
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