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SSJ3 goku > Mystic Gohan, and this is why.....
Topic Started: Jun 2 2012, 05:15 PM (4,989 Views)
pakl123456
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GokuIsMyFriend
Jun 3 2012, 03:41 PM
Son Gohan
Jun 3 2012, 03:40 PM
GokuIsMyFriend
Jun 3 2012, 09:39 AM
You guys never debunked my 7 points therefore Goku>Gohan>Gotenks. Gotenks surpassed Majin Vegeta as a SSJ3. That means Base Vegeta>Base Gotenks and SSJ Vegeta>SSJ Gotenks. SSJ Gotenks Pre Rosat is around Piccolo's level. SSJ Gotenks Post Rosat had surpassed Piccolo but still weaker than SSJ Goku. Unless you guys can prove me wrong so my points still hold.
I did.
You didn't reply to my last post. Pakl123456 did. Did he debunk me???? Hmmm, no.



Daizenshuu 2 : "Goku's feelings are only understood by his fellow strongest."
Daizenshuu 4: "Q: Out of all your characters, which one is the most cool?
A: "I think it's Goku." The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!"
Daizenshuu 2: "Goku was the only one who could fight Buu."
Daizenshuu 2: " He continues to always seek the strongest! Having gotten Buu to be reincarnated, Goku waited for him above all else."
Officially Goku > Gohan. You just have to deal with it
What? I debunked your statements just deal with it. LOL. Goku can't feel anything besides that only means how Goku's feelings are understood by his strongest enemy BUU. which is Buu overall. This is the interviewer's opinion not a fact. Goku was the only one who could of fought Buu since he was the only one left and everyone was dead. He waited for his strongest enmy which is Buu overall. Good, that dpesn't mean *****. Diaz states Gohan is the mightiest of warriors


Also if you want to start arguing that the Daizenshuu is canon then here you go;

quote Daizenshuu 2- Story Guide. Growing Up
Dormant power that knows no bottom, even though he was trained from infancy.

Gohan is an elite who easily handled the training he was put through since the age of four in order to fight enormous enemies. As a Saiyan and Earthling half-breed, Gohan possesses dormant power that surpasses that of a Saiyan. While by nature he has a calm personality and isn't interested in fighting, when he loses his reason his true power explodes.
quote Daizenshuu 2- Story Guide. Growing Up
MIGHTIEST WARRIOR
First Appears: Vol. 41

In order to defeat Majin Buu, he had his dormant power drawn out by the Elder Kaioshin. Even without becoming a Super Saiyan, he has power surpassing Gotenks.
That is a flat out Mightiest Warrior Gohan>>Pure blooded Saiyan, and thus Mightiest Warrior Gohan>>SSjin3 Goku statement.

Not only that, it appears as if this is implying that Gotenks was the next strongest fighter after Gohan.
Furthermore evidence from the Daizenshuu suggesting Gotenks>Goku;

quote Daizenshuu 2- Story Guide. Growing Up
Like Gohan and Goten, being half Saiyan and half Earthling, his dormant power is high.

quote Daizenshuu 2- Story Guide. Growing Up
As a Saiyan and Earthling half-breed, Gohan possesses dormant power that surpasses that of a Saiyan.
This all implies that the half-breeds have more hidden power/dormant ability than the pure bloods.
Now this is how the Daizenshuu describes SSjin3;

quote Daizenshuu 7- Dragonball Encyclopedia. Special Attack Dictionary
The strongest form of Super Saiyan, which draws the hidden power of a Saiyan out to its limits.
So once again that means at the very least SSjin3 Gotenks>SSjin3 Goku.

Gohan>Gotenks>>Goku is uncontradicted manga fact which is backed up by the Daizenshuu and statements/feats in the manga.

Simple as that.
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GokuIsMyFriend
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pakl123456
Jun 3 2012, 03:45 PM
GokuIsMyFriend
Jun 3 2012, 03:41 PM
Son Gohan
Jun 3 2012, 03:40 PM
GokuIsMyFriend
Jun 3 2012, 09:39 AM
You guys never debunked my 7 points therefore Goku>Gohan>Gotenks. Gotenks surpassed Majin Vegeta as a SSJ3. That means Base Vegeta>Base Gotenks and SSJ Vegeta>SSJ Gotenks. SSJ Gotenks Pre Rosat is around Piccolo's level. SSJ Gotenks Post Rosat had surpassed Piccolo but still weaker than SSJ Goku. Unless you guys can prove me wrong so my points still hold.
I did.
You didn't reply to my last post. Pakl123456 did. Did he debunk me???? Hmmm, no.



Daizenshuu 2 : "Goku's feelings are only understood by his fellow strongest."
Daizenshuu 4: "Q: Out of all your characters, which one is the most cool?
A: "I think it's Goku." The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!"
Daizenshuu 2: "Goku was the only one who could fight Buu."
Daizenshuu 2: " He continues to always seek the strongest! Having gotten Buu to be reincarnated, Goku waited for him above all else."
Officially Goku > Gohan. You just have to deal with it
What? I debunked your statements just deal with it. LOL. Goku can't feel anything besides that only means how Goku's feelings are understood by his strongest enemy BUU. which is Buu overall. This is the interviewer's opinion not a fact. Goku was the only one who could of fought Buu since he was the only one left and everyone was dead. He waited for his strongest enmy which is Buu overall. Good, that dpesn't mean *****. Diaz states Gohan is the mightiest of warriors


Also if you want to start arguing that the Daizenshuu is canon then here you go;

quote Daizenshuu 2- Story Guide. Growing Up
Dormant power that knows no bottom, even though he was trained from infancy.

Gohan is an elite who easily handled the training he was put through since the age of four in order to fight enormous enemies. As a Saiyan and Earthling half-breed, Gohan possesses dormant power that surpasses that of a Saiyan. While by nature he has a calm personality and isn't interested in fighting, when he loses his reason his true power explodes.
quote Daizenshuu 2- Story Guide. Growing Up
MIGHTIEST WARRIOR
First Appears: Vol. 41

In order to defeat Majin Buu, he had his dormant power drawn out by the Elder Kaioshin. Even without becoming a Super Saiyan, he has power surpassing Gotenks.
That is a flat out Mightiest Warrior Gohan>>Pure blooded Saiyan, and thus Mightiest Warrior Gohan>>SSjin3 Goku statement.

Not only that, it appears as if this is implying that Gotenks was the next strongest fighter after Gohan.
Furthermore evidence from the Daizenshuu suggesting Gotenks>Goku;

quote Daizenshuu 2- Story Guide. Growing Up
Like Gohan and Goten, being half Saiyan and half Earthling, his dormant power is high.

quote Daizenshuu 2- Story Guide. Growing Up
As a Saiyan and Earthling half-breed, Gohan possesses dormant power that surpasses that of a Saiyan.
This all implies that the half-breeds have more hidden power/dormant ability than the pure bloods.
Now this is how the Daizenshuu describes SSjin3;

quote Daizenshuu 7- Dragonball Encyclopedia. Special Attack Dictionary
The strongest form of Super Saiyan, which draws the hidden power of a Saiyan out to its limits.
So once again that means at the very least SSjin3 Gotenks>SSjin3 Goku.

Gohan>Gotenks>>Goku is uncontradicted manga fact which is backed up by the Daizenshuu and statements/feats in the manga.

Simple as that.
I know about that quote, I never ignored it. Half breeds have greater latent energy and can grow fast as we can see with gotenks and trunks as well. But that does not automatically make them stronger. Gohans potential being drawn meant his latent energy being drawn out. Some of which has already been drawn out from previous endeavors.
Toriyama himself said there is a limit to muscle strength but he stated it can be overcome through ki. So there is no end all be all when it comes to ki which means Gohan CAN be stronger but simply doesn’t because he does not train.

Not to mention the daizenshuu says in clear words Goku is the strongest while Daizenshuu never says Gohan surpassed Goku.
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GokuIsMyFriend
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Son Gohan
Jun 3 2012, 03:47 PM
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NOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOO


:tuttut: :tuttut: :tuttut: :tuttut: :tuttut: :tuttut: :tuttut: :tuttut: :tuttut: :tuttut:

:tsucks: :tsucks:
:tsucks: :tsucks:
:tsucks: :tsucks:
You show no proof so Goku>Gohan.
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Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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Jesus ***** this is so goddamn idiotic i do not even have the *****ing sense to disprove it

you did disprove a single one of my points

and the *****ing guidebooks go against you

good day sir
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pakl123456
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GokuIsMyFriend
Jun 3 2012, 03:58 PM
Son Gohan
Jun 3 2012, 03:47 PM
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NOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOO


:tuttut: :tuttut: :tuttut: :tuttut: :tuttut: :tuttut: :tuttut: :tuttut: :tuttut: :tuttut:

:tsucks: :tsucks:
:tsucks: :tsucks:
:tsucks: :tsucks:
You show no proof so Goku>Gohan.
Are you freaking blind dude? On the same page it says Gohan had all his dormant power released by the Elder Kaioshin. That ALL BUT says Mightiest Warrior Gohan>>Goku.
Not only that, his dormant power was released beyond it's limits;
"With my psychic powers, I can take the hidden power which anyone has, no matter how amazing a master they may be, and draw it wa~~ay, wa~~ay out above their limits."

You do realize what you said about the physical/Ki scenario is completely irrelevant here right?

Does it specifically state Goku is the strongest during the battle with Majin Buu? No. There is a *bleep*ing 10 year gap between the the Buu battle and the end of Z so Goku could probably be the strongest BY THEN.

Your Goku fanboyism is just straight up retarded. You need to use sources which sometimes contradict the manga and even then you can be proven wrong using them.

Evil Buu>>>SSjin3 Goku FP

SSjin3 Gotenks>>>Goku FP

Mightiest Warrior Gohan>>>Goku FP

SSjin3 Goku FP>Kid Buu

Evil Buu>>>Kid Buu

This is all manga fact which remains not contradicted.

Here is how I countered every Kid Buu>Evil Buu argument;


"U.Gohan > Super Boo ~ SSJ3 Gotenks >>> SSJ3 Goku (Buu Saga"
excuse me?

"Lol and mat I ask you why you think of this?"
1. kid buu pushed back a spirit bomb full of gohans and kibitoshins power.
2. goku wanted gohan and gotenks to fight
3. goku said "we cant beat super buu like this" meaning as midgets
4. kid buu was toying around with them and goku admitted he thought he could do better against him, ergo he underestimated kid buu
5. the power that was said to be going up by vegeta was never said to have decreased
6. with no mercy, his full power was unleashed. if you remember, majins are able to cast off restrictions and that makes them stronger, like vegeta.
7. goku never actually saw gotenks when he said gotenks was stronger.
8. he was holding back greatly vs fat buu so gotenks being above fat buus tier, is not to say hes above goku too.
9. goku behaved cocky around super buu inside is body. why, if he was so terrified of him?
10. i believe goku only said "gohan can handle buucollo" because of the whole next gen thing.
11. vegeta called goku number 1 and the only person who can fight wit kid buu
1. The 'genki' donated by Gohan and co was nothing compared to what they could have donated.
Chapter: 515 (DBZ 321), P5.3
Context: after Vegeta says he’ll hold off Boo again
Goku: “You’ll sta-stall for time?…Yo-you’ve just been restored to life. Your ki still ain’t full, is it?!”

So basically they didn't have all of their genki available to them to donate.

Also genki is stated by AT to be just a part of someone's 'Ki'.

quote member from DaizEX
Q. What's the trick to winning battles [in the DB world]?

A. Toriyama says it all comes down to 'ki', the size of it and the ability to control it. He says it includes several forms: genki, yuuki & shouki (energy, bravery & true character).
2. For the same reason as the above. He knew each of them wouldn't be at their best so the more fighters the better.

3. In the context Goku is OBVIII~OUSLY referring to not being fused.
This is what Goku says;

Goku: “Hehhe~~eh! With this, Boo’s power should have fallen significantly! We’re almost there! See, see: the size of his ki is completely different than before!”
Vegeta: “Alright! Let’s blast out of here and escape!”
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!…But there is one way we can win!”
Vegeta: “You want to say Fusion, right? Well who cares about that?!”
Goku: “Huh? You know about it?”
Vegeta: “I saw it from the afterlife…You’ve got to be joking! You think I’d perform those ugly poses…?! Anyway, I thought I told you that I’m not going to merge with you a second time.”

4. Kid Buu was trying his heart out. The only time he toyed with Goku was when he drawn out his regeneration;
Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.6-7
Context: after one of Goku’s attacks damages Boo
Goku: “That bastard…Even though he can quickly return to normal, he’s playing around by purposefully drawing it out…”

Kid Buu even resorted to his candy beam;

http://i52.tinypic.com/iqm1kh.jpg

Then after that, SSjin3 Goku tanks Kid Buu's Kamehameha which he quite clearly put a lot of effort into;

http://i56.tinypic.com/1o3txc.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/28auour.jpg

5. Look at Goku's reaction to Kid Buu;
Goku: “We did it! This way, we might be able to manage something.”

What did he mean by 'We did it'? Remember their objective was to make Buu weak enough so they could at least fight him. Only a moron can't see that Goku ALL BUT said that Kid Buu<<<Evil Buu.

6. Is this supposed to be proof? Because all I see is a random comment about Kid Buu made up by a fan.

7. Goku had an extensive knowledge of fusion. He knew what it did to fighter faaaaaaaar weaker than Goten and Trunks and thus knew how strong Gotenks would be. It's the same as when the Elder Kaioshin said that a potara fusion between Gohan and Goku would be > Buutenks without SSjin.

8. It is never stated that SSjin3 could be suppressed. Although he might have been holding back a bit, that doesn't mean his Ki was that different.
SSjin Gotenks pre RoSaT has to be either stronger or around SSjin3 Goku because it remains not contradicted and is supported by Piccolo's reaction to SSjin Gotenks' resting Ki.

9. What are you on about here? Goku thought he could blow a whole in his head and I assume escape.

10. So Goku admits he can't touch Evil Buu and now you think he could take Buucollo? lol

11. Vegeta hadn't even witnessed SSjin3 prior to the fight implying that he didn't see SSjin3 Gotenks vs Evil Buu and Gohan vs Evil Buu so his statement is made without the knowledge of how strong they were. Also Gohan etc were all dead at the time so of course he was the only one capable of fighting him.
Edited by pakl123456, Jun 3 2012, 04:10 PM.
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Super Vegetto
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Quote:
 
You show no proof so Goku>Gohan.


Ok i see that this debate isnt going no where, so i whant you to say 3 or more good reasons why is Goku > Gohan.

Spoiler: click to toggle
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Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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Chapter: 496 (DBZ 302)
P7.2-3
Context: after Gohan transforms into the ‘mightiest of warriors’
Goku: “It re-really is incredible…It’s super-duper…! Absolutely unbelievable…Your appearance has hardly changed…And you ain’t even a Super Saiyan…Yet you’ve been taken to su-such an extreme…”
Elder Kaioshin: “Hmph, transforming isn’t good. That Super whatever-its-called is the wrong way [of doing things]…”
Why would Goku be so amazed if his SSjin 3 was stronger?
Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308)
P10.4-5

Context: after Gotenks-absorbed Boo's time limit runs out and Gotenks inside him turns back into Goten and Trunks
Goku: “Your power’s fallen a whole lot. Cheh…I’m a little disappointed. This way, Gohan will be able to beat you even on his own…”
Why did Goku not say he himself would be able to beat Boo?
Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316)
P13.1-6
Vegeta: “Don’t hesitate for my sake, and finish him off! With that Super Saiyan 3, you should be able to completely wipe out Boo with your ki once you gather it with all your might…!”
Goku: “Ye…yeah…I’ve been thinking of doing that as well since awhile back, but…I haven’t gotten the chance.”
Vegeta: “Eh?”
Goku: “If I want to wipe him out, I gotta gather ki for about one minute.”
Vegeta: “One minute?!”
Goku: “Dammnit~~~If it was with the Potara, I could have done it in one blast. …..Cheh~~~I guess I went and showed off too much. But I thought things would go a little better than this…!”
Vegeta: “…S …So you weren’t thinking of me…”
Goku doesn't care about Vegeta's feelings over him being stronger, Goku would have beaten Evil Boo or stated he could have if he really could.

Oh, and even the guidebooks contradict you but you fail to recognize that. Allow me to reiterate what someone else posted already:

[all these are stated in the guidebooks]

1 ~ Super Saiyan 3 is the strongest Super Saiyan 3 form, which draws the Saiyan's hidden power to its limits
2 ~ Hybrids have far more potential and dormant power than pure blooded saiyans
3 ~ Therfore, SSjin 3 Gotenks > SSjin 3 Goku
4 ~ Super Gohan is stronger than SSjin 3 Gotenks
5 ~ Super Gohan > SSjin 3 Gotenks > SSjin 3 Goku
Edited by Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs, Jun 3 2012, 04:13 PM.
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+ supersaqer
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"GokuIsMyFriend" is "pakl123456". Just IP ban "pakl123456" and "GokuIsMyFriend" would never appear again. Lock this thread up.
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GokuIsMyFriend
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Son Gohan
Jun 3 2012, 04:07 PM
Chapter: 496 (DBZ 302)
P7.2-3
Context: after Gohan transforms into the ‘mightiest of warriors’
Goku: “It re-really is incredible…It’s super-duper…! Absolutely unbelievable…Your appearance has hardly changed…And you ain’t even a Super Saiyan…Yet you’ve been taken to su-such an extreme…”
Elder Kaioshin: “Hmph, transforming isn’t good. That Super whatever-its-called is the wrong way [of doing things]…”
Why would Goku be so amazed if his SSjin 3 was stronger?
Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308)
P10.4-5

Context: after Gotenks-absorbed Boo's time limit runs out and Gotenks inside him turns back into Goten and Trunks
Goku: “Your power’s fallen a whole lot. Cheh…I’m a little disappointed. This way, Gohan will be able to beat you even on his own…”
Why did Goku not say he himself would be able to beat Boo?
Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316)
P13.1-6
Vegeta: “Don’t hesitate for my sake, and finish him off! With that Super Saiyan 3, you should be able to completely wipe out Boo with your ki once you gather it with all your might…!”
Goku: “Ye…yeah…I’ve been thinking of doing that as well since awhile back, but…I haven’t gotten the chance.”
Vegeta: “Eh?”
Goku: “If I want to wipe him out, I gotta gather ki for about one minute.”
Vegeta: “One minute?!”
Goku: “Dammnit~~~If it was with the Potara, I could have done it in one blast. …..Cheh~~~I guess I went and showed off too much. But I thought things would go a little better than this…!”
Vegeta: “…S …So you weren’t thinking of me…”
Goku doesn't care about Vegeta's feelings over him being stronger, Goku would have beaten Evil Boo or stated he could have if he really could.

Oh, and even the guidebooks contradict you but you fail to recognize that. Allow me to reiterate what someone else posted already:

[all these are stated in the guidebooks]

1 ~ Super Saiyan 3 is the strongest Super Saiyan 3 form, which draws the Saiyan's power to its limits
2 ~ Hybrids have far more potential than pure blooded saiyans
3 ~ Therfore, SSjin 3 Gotenks > SSjin 3 Goku
4 ~ Super Gohan is stronger than SSjin 3 Gotenks
5 ~ Super Gohan > SSjin 3 Gotenks > SSjin 3 Goku
If you noticed, Goku was amazed about Gohan's power and said he has a great power even without SSJ, then Elder Kai says the SSJ is part of him and he can't transform then Goku stopped being in shock.

manga he says cheh I'm dissapointed. EVEN Gohan can beat you now. This gives Goku superiority. Goku said he was disappointed about how weak Buu had gotten.

You can't bring evidence so you use that paki guy's points? :o

AT himself said tere is no limit to ki.
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GokuIsMyFriend
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Jun 3 2012, 04:07 PM
Quote:
 
You show no proof so Goku>Gohan.


Ok i see that this debate isnt going no where, so i whant you to say 3 or more good reasons why is Goku > Gohan.

Read my 7 points.
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That thread in Neoseeker was made a long time ago. How the hell would he remember all of the points? Even I'd forget the thread if I made one and it got really old.
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GokuIsMyFriend
Jun 3 2012, 04:18 PM
Super Vegetto
Jun 3 2012, 04:07 PM
Quote:
 
You show no proof so Goku>Gohan.


Ok i see that this debate isnt going no where, so i whant you to say 3 or more good reasons why is Goku > Gohan.

Read my 7 points.
7 points where you stated Kid boo > Super boo ? Sry but no, that is not good reason why Goku > Gohan.

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supersaqer
Jun 3 2012, 04:20 PM
That thread in Neoseeker was made a long time ago. How the hell would he remember all of the points? Even I'd forget the thread if I made one and it got really old.
You must be on drugs if you think I am that guy. He is arguing with me and has a total different interpretation that mine. I have those points on my computer since I am debating people and shows those points. You just proved you are an idiot.
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Super Vegetto
Jun 3 2012, 04:22 PM
GokuIsMyFriend
Jun 3 2012, 04:18 PM
Super Vegetto
Jun 3 2012, 04:07 PM
Quote:
 
You show no proof so Goku>Gohan.


Ok i see that this debate isnt going no where, so i whant you to say 3 or more good reasons why is Goku > Gohan.

Read my 7 points.
7 points where you stated Kid boo > Super boo ? Sry but no, that is not good reason why Goku > Gohan.

I also stated Goku>Gohan.
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GokuIsMyFriend
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You gus have lost and can't debunk my points. Vegeta said Goku is #1 and only one capable of fighting Buu so Goku>Gohan. In Buu's stomatch, Goku was no match for Buu since he was smaller than a flea. Super Buu even said they are smaller than fleas and they can't win that way. You can go off fan theories. But official we are done and official says Goku>Gohan. All three sources, Anime, Manga and Daizenshuu which are canon send the same message and say Goku>Gohan>Gotenks.
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