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The Passing Down of SSJ blood... What?!; It doesn't make proper sense.
Topic Started: May 29 2012, 05:07 AM (1,395 Views)
amsmagic
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The Magic Man. Aka Street Magician

I have a simple question to all my fellow dbz fans,

Where is the logic.... Where... In the fact that the newer generation of saiyans have an easier time attaining the all mighty super Saiyan transformation?

Goku and Vegeta had to wait their entire life to achieve it, each having times in which it was logical for them to get it before in their lives.

Then Gohan comes along, and he gets it through his first INTENSE training session. (How many intense training sessions did Goku have in his life?)

Then, Goten and Trunks pop their heads into our universe. Goten achieves SSJ in a fighting spar with his mother! Not only that, but he didn't even feel his power boost. (Based off anime). And we don't know how trunks achieved his, but we can assume its with the same relative ease.

Now, where is the logic that the less Saiyan blood you have, the more chance you have of obtaining super Saiyan.

And why did Goten and trunks achieve it so early on, when Gohan and Future Trunks it took much longer. Hell, Trunks had many times to achieve super Saiyan before he did. And Gohan could have when piccolo died, or on namek.

So, my question again, is why?
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Billa
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Thala na Gethu!

I'll say what, its Toriyama's thing. Over-indulgence of SSJ states, & keep upping the power levels of the hero's & villains forced him to create new generation of hero's that are powerful, & that bein said Goten & Trunks are included.

Being the sons of legendary fighters, Kakarotto & Vegeta-sama, you dont expect their kids to be weaklings that they couldn't even acheive SSJ.
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+ KingOfAllSaiyans
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A common theory is that Goten and Trunks were able to attain SSJ so easily because Vegeta and Goku were both SSJ's when they were conceived. As for Gohan, Goku knew what it would take for him to achieve SSJ and basically spent a good portion of his time in the Rosat trying to get Gohan past the wall.
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amsmagic
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The Magic Man. Aka Street Magician

Chou Supa Saiyajin Suri
May 29 2012, 05:13 AM
I'll say what, its Toriyama's thing. Over-indulgence of SSJ states, & keep upping the power levels of the hero's & villains forced him to create new generation of hero's that are powerful, & that bein said Goten & Trunks are included.

Being the sons of legendary fighters, Kakarotto & Vegeta-sama, you dont expect their kids to be weaklings that they couldn't even acheive SSJ.
I'm more leaning towards this. Sometimes, like I've said before, people try and read inbetween lines that aren't their. Toriyama probably just wanted to have the new characters be on par with the old characters, made them achieve SSj, and didn't look back.

Still though, he should have showed a more real aspect in the way in which they achieved SSJ.


And in response to king of all saiyans,

Did I just hear a reference that the spem cells are super Saiyan? 0_o
Edited by amsmagic, May 29 2012, 05:32 AM.
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Billa
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Thala na Gethu!

I agree. They could've at least showed some strain on hard-earned status as SSJ's as their Dad's did. That could've at least give some room/space to feel that SSJ wasn't ridiculed by those kids...
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Kblo247
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As the saiyans become more and more human, they become more emotional. The natural saiyan is a warrior who doesn't experience bonds or a wide range of emotions. They can feel them but it isn't easy and it has to be taught which it was inthe case of Goku or gradually learned in the case of Vegeta, they are trained to be merciless and show no attachment, the ultimate beings of natural selection due to up bringing and the computers pumping info in their brains.

Gohan is a rare breed because he is the only saiyan hybrid born from a father who had not obtained SSJ, who had not unlocked the plain where the emotional met the physical, Gohan also was the only saiyan besides his daughter Pan in GT to show great power boosts when his emotions flared. The two of them were unique in that when they got mad, $hit got wrecked. Their perosnalities also changed at given moments so I guess you can say Gohan was tainted so to speak and that Pan followed the same path and characteristics because of her genes

Goten and Trunks were born from SSJ unlocked fathers. It came easy to them. The same could be said for Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr in late gt who simply said cool you can go blonde like me.

Bulla even though not depicted as a SSJ for an obvious reason of there was no design, and despite not caring about training, says she can go off and kill the likes of Yakon, Bojack, Cooler, 19, and so on if she felt like it.,

The more access to human emotion that a saiyan has, the bettter they become as a fighter and warrior. It's just that the proud race never thought they could learn anything from humans or anyone from that matter, so the likes of King Vegeta and Bardock were thought as being the top of the food chain despite being fodder to most.

I mean think about Nappa and Raditz. Even facing death Raditz wasn't scared, as much as he was scheming. Nappa more or less was the same goon all the way through to his final breath. They were just one straight line emotion, killers nothing more and nothing less who wanted to survive, but didn't know true companionship or compassion, which is why Vegeta was so hurt when they spared him on earth and basically was in debted to the point he saved Gohan and Krillin over and over,
Edited by Kblo247, May 29 2012, 05:56 AM.
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amsmagic
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The Magic Man. Aka Street Magician

Chou Supa Saiyajin Suri
May 29 2012, 05:39 AM
I agree. They could've at least showed some strain on hard-earned status as SSJ's as their Dad's did. That could've at least give some room/space to feel that SSJ wasn't ridiculed by those kids...
Exactly. Like they did with Gohan!

Even though Gohan was extremely young, (and I'm referring to anime) they show countless points in his training of his intense struggle. He even has nightmares that all link to his transformation! And the way he achieves it for a few seconds, then loses control and faints. It's just epic. Simply put.

And even his SSJ2 transformation was a struggle.

I feel that the same should have been for Goten and Trunks. Maybe have Vegeta ridicule Trunks so much and call him a failure that Trunks loses control and bursts into SSJ.

And have Goten get so angry that his Dad wasn't their for him and he could have been that Goten bursts into SSJ, maybe in his sleep after a nightmare, and he goes into rage mode on their house, then faints.

Man if I could draw... Haha.
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amsmagic
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The Magic Man. Aka Street Magician

Kblo247
May 29 2012, 05:40 AM
As the saiyans become more and more human, they become more emotional. The natural saiyan is a warrior who doesn't experience bonds or a wide range of emotions. They can feel them but it isn't easy and it has to be taught which it was inthe case of Goku or gradually learned in the case of Vegeta, they are trained to be merciless and show no attachment, the ultimate beings of natural selection due to up bringing and the computers pumping info in their brains.

Gohan is a rare breed because he is the only saiyan hybrid born from a father who had not obtained SSJ, who had not unlocked the plain where the emotional met the physical, Gohan also was the only saiyan besides his daughter Pan in GT to show great power boosts when his emotions flared. The two of them were unique in that when they got mad, $hit got wrecked. Their perosnalities also changed at given moments so I guess you can say Gohan was tainted so to speak and that Pan followed ***** because of her genes

Goten and Trunks were born from SSJ unlocked fathers. It came easy to them. The same could be said for Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr in late gt who simply said cool you can go blonde like me.

Bulla even though not depicted as a SSJ for an obvious reason of there was no design, and despite not caring about training, says she can go off and kill the likes of Yakon, Bojack, Cooler, 19, and so on if she felt like it.,

The more access to human emotion that a saiyan has, the bettter they become as a fighter and warrior. It's just that the proud race never thought they could learn anything from humans or anyone from that matter, so the likes of King Vegeta and Bardock were thought as being the top of the food chain despite being fodder to most.

I mean think about Nappa and Raditz. Even facing death Raditz wasn't scared, as much as he was scheming. Nappa more or less was the same goon all the way through to his final breath. They were just one straight line emotion, killers nothing more an dnothing less who wanted to survive, but didn't know true companionship or compassion, which is why Vegeta was so hurt when they spared him on earth and basically was in debated to the point he saved Gohan and Krillin over and over,
I can see that beings the facts. I never really thought about it that way.
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Master of Dragon Ball
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It makes sense that Goku's lineage would evolve to have such power and ability.
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Billa
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Thala na Gethu!

Master of Dragon Ball
May 29 2012, 05:48 AM
It makes sense that Goku's lineage would evolve to have such power and ability.
The topic was not discussing only abt Goku's kid you know?
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Kblo247
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I really do believe the only full bloooded saiyan that was depicted as naturally emotional was Broly, and we all know that he was just twisted mentally.
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InterWebZ
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We know from Cell that most species in Z seem to store techniques and abilities in their cells somehow- even though Goku only learned the Kamehameha after being born, likewise with Piccolo's SBC and Tien's tri-beam, Cell got those simply from having their cells.

Based on that, it would appear that in the case of Saiyans at least, this "bio-data" can be passed on to the next generation, which would explain why Goten and Trunks have an easier time unlocking SSJ than Goku or Vegeta did.
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Battle Power
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It seems to me that the saiya-jin's power level at the time of conception also has somewhat of an impact on the baby, DBZ shows that the next generation is always stronger than the last one. I feel that, if Bardock survived the whole deal with Freeza and had a son, the kid would naturally be stronger than Goku & Raditz.

Something to point out, is that the kids (Goten & Trunks) seemed to constantly spar with each other, and that obviously made them much stronger then they'd be with no training whatsoever. Plus, the fact that they haven't really shown any rage boosts makes me believe they were already born with that power unlocked, like if Gohan was also this way, he'd be over 1,000 at the beginning of Z. That's one explanation as to why they were so strong for their age.
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Super Vegetto
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And why did Goten and trunks achieve it so early on, when Gohan and Future Trunks it took much longer. Hell, Trunks had many times to achieve super Saiyan before he did. And Gohan could have when piccolo died, or on namek.

So, my question again, is why?



It took Gohan longer because he wasnt born with ssj blood. He neaded to unlock it while Goten and Trunks got it like a gift.

Btw first time in manga Future Trunks is shown as SSJ. And yes. He is probably born SSJ like Goten and Trunks because in that time Goku and Vegeta probably already had SSJ blood and since day they are born they have SSJ blood.

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GridZero
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Well..Goten was most likely conceived during the wait for the Cell Games, and that would mean that Goku was an SSJ for the entire shebang.

Trunks is an anomaly though. Not only was Vegeta probably not an SSJ during the time, but he's stronger than Goten.
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