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Locked Topic
Why Gohan was a SSJ vs Dabura
Topic Started: May 25 2012, 01:28 PM (35,120 Views)
+ Clearin
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pakl123456
May 25 2012, 04:25 PM
Teen GohanZ
May 25 2012, 04:21 PM
It's more of an opinion than a fact. You can think that if you want, I don't have a problem with it.
Hmm, The Manga supports he was a SSJ according to his design so it's kind of more fact than an opinion. I just go according to the Manga and what it shows, and it showed Gohan was designed as a SSJ when he fought Dabura.
Yes the manga does indeed seem to show he was a MSSj but the manga also seems to say he was a SSj2 through various statements. If there were no statements trust me I'd hop right on board with the MSSj thing, but too much stuff points to SSj2 for me to believe it. There have been theories for the MSSj like aura which have been mentioned in the thread, but I haven't found any answers for all my SSj2 evidence, so I'll support that for now.
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Super Vegetto
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Man there is no source that says how SSJ2 neads to have lightning. Aura and lightning depends on persons fealings, raw strenght, injured and weak.

Do you think that Vegetto goes SSJ2 in begining and in next panel goes SSJ ?

Spoiler: click to toggle
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pakl123456
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Teen GohanZ
May 25 2012, 04:27 PM
pakl123456
May 25 2012, 04:25 PM
Teen GohanZ
May 25 2012, 04:21 PM
It's more of an opinion than a fact. You can think that if you want, I don't have a problem with it.
Hmm, The Manga supports he was a SSJ according to his design so it's kind of more fact than an opinion. I just go according to the Manga and what it shows, and it showed Gohan was designed as a SSJ when he fought Dabura.
Yes the manga does indeed seem to show he was a MSSj but the manga also seems to say he was a SSj2 through various statements. If there were no statements trust me I'd hop right on board with the MSSj thing, but too much stuff points to SSj2 for me to believe it. There have been theories for the MSSj like aura which have been mentioned in the thread, but I haven't found any answers for all my SSj2 evidence, so I'll support that for now.
If you mean to what Kaioshin said so that can be easily debunked! You can interpet what he said to prove he was a SSJ.
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pakl123456
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Super Vegetto
May 25 2012, 04:28 PM
Man there is no source that says how SSJ2 neads to have lightning. Aura and lightning depends on persons fealings, raw strenght, injured and weak.

Do you think that Vegetto goes SSJ2 in begining and in next panel goes SSJ ?

Vegito really had lightening when he powered up but was a SSJ but that can be debunked as well. Maybe when someone powers up to max and he is angry so he has lightening like Magin Vegeta when he got mad and powered up to max. That doesn't anyway proves Gohan was a SSJ2. That claims souns like a Brolytard when he tries to prove Gohan was a SSJ2 in movie 10 and says "USSJ Trunks had lightening vs Cell so lightening means nothing" (I know Gohan was SSJ2 vs Broly BTW) When you say it changes according to emotions is once again fan theory. I mean every SSJ2 has lightening in the Manga, I also can't understand why do you think Gohan was SSJ2 when he fought Dabura if nothing supports it.
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pakl123456
May 25 2012, 04:17 PM
Super Vegetto
May 25 2012, 04:13 PM
Lightning is important factor for SSJ2 ? So you whant to say that Gohan movie 10 was actualy SSJ ?

Posted Image

Posted Image

Daizenshuu says that he is SSJ2. So concpet art is wrong or ?
Anime is not Manga and of course Gohan was a SSJ2 vs Broly. I even made a thread proving it. Anime neglects the lightening but the Manga doesn't. For example SSJ2 Vegeta had no lightening vs Kid Buu but he did have in the Manga since every SSJ2 has lightening in the Manga. Using non canon is baseless.
In Anime you can be SSJ2 without lightening since you have pale skin. spikier hair and abadass look. Gohan never had that look nor pale skin when he fought Dabura not even in the Anime.

Gohan was a SSJ in the Manga when he battled the Demon King=FACT!!!!
You can't wave away Toriyama's own art for the difference between MSSJ and SSJ2 Gohan. Toriyama drew that concept art. And he didn't put lightning in it. It was used in both anime and manga, and drawn by Akira Toriyama for DBZ. It should be canon.

Subtle differences between MSSJ and SSJ2 in that picture:

- SSJ2 has more spikes in the hair for Gohan
- SSJ2 has one long bang, as opposed to MSSJ having one long bang and one short bang
- SSJ2 has more lines in the hair, as opposed to MSSJ having much less lines in the hair
- The eyes are a bit more condensed, or furrowed downwards, in SSJ2. Generally, a fiercer look on the face.

Golden Fighter Gohan 1
Golden Fighter Gohan 2
Golden Fighter Gohan 3

Notice how the hair is much less detailed (less lines drawn in it), and how there are not as many spikes in it. And of course, the two bangs. This all points to Gohan obviously being MSSJ

SSJ2 Gohan at Budokai

Notice how much more spikes there are in his hair compared to his MSSJ form. Furthermore, his eyes are much more furrowed downwards, and his face is fiercer. Now, compare that picture to:

Daiz Gohan Concept Art

In the lower right is MSSJ Gohan smiling. Right above that is a fiercer looking SSJ2 Gohan. Notice how that pic of Gohan is almost exactly the same as the picture of SSJ2 Gohan at the Budokai, except with different clothing. The posture, the look, the hair, and even the position of the head is exactly the same.

Gohan at Dabra 1
Gohan at Dabra 2

Notice the telltale signs:

- More spikes than Golden Fighter Gohan
- Fiercer look
- One long bang

So the artwork is actually going a bit against you. Furthermore, the lightning is inconsistent, and was not even shown in the concept art, with Toriyama himself drew. Chances are Toriyama just got tired of drawing lightning all the time, so decided to just keep it out.

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pakl123456
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Son Gohan
May 25 2012, 04:55 PM
pakl123456
May 25 2012, 04:17 PM
Super Vegetto
May 25 2012, 04:13 PM
Lightning is important factor for SSJ2 ? So you whant to say that Gohan movie 10 was actualy SSJ ?

Posted Image

Posted Image

Daizenshuu says that he is SSJ2. So concpet art is wrong or ?
Anime is not Manga and of course Gohan was a SSJ2 vs Broly. I even made a thread proving it. Anime neglects the lightening but the Manga doesn't. For example SSJ2 Vegeta had no lightening vs Kid Buu but he did have in the Manga since every SSJ2 has lightening in the Manga. Using non canon is baseless.
In Anime you can be SSJ2 without lightening since you have pale skin. spikier hair and abadass look. Gohan never had that look nor pale skin when he fought Dabura not even in the Anime.

Gohan was a SSJ in the Manga when he battled the Demon King=FACT!!!!
You can't wave away Toriyama's own art for the difference between MSSJ and SSJ2 Gohan. Toriyama drew that concept art. And he didn't put lightning in it. It was used in both anime and manga, and drawn by Akira Toriyama for DBZ. It should be canon.

Subtle differences between MSSJ and SSJ2 in that picture:

- SSJ2 has more spikes in the hair for Gohan
- SSJ2 has one long bang, as opposed to MSSJ having one long bang and one short bang
- SSJ2 has more lines in the hair, as opposed to MSSJ having much less lines in the hair
- The eyes are a bit more condensed, or furrowed downwards, in SSJ2. Generally, a fiercer look on the face.

Golden Fighter Gohan 1
Golden Fighter Gohan 2
Golden Fighter Gohan 3

Notice how the hair is much less detailed (less lines drawn in it), and how there are not as many spikes in it. And of course, the two bangs. This all points to Gohan obviously being MSSJ

SSJ2 Gohan at Budokai

Notice how much more spikes there are in his hair compared to his MSSJ form. Furthermore, his eyes are much more furrowed downwards, and his face is fiercer. Now, compare that picture to:

Daiz Gohan Concept Art

In the lower right is MSSJ Gohan smiling. Right above that is a fiercer looking SSJ2 Gohan. Notice how that pic of Gohan is almost exactly the same as the picture of SSJ2 Gohan at the Budokai, except with different clothing. The posture, the look, the hair, and even the position of the head is exactly the same.

Gohan at Dabra 1
Gohan at Dabra 2

Notice the telltale signs:

- More spikes than Golden Fighter Gohan
- Fiercer look
- One long bang

So the artwork is actually going a bit against you. Furthermore, the lightning is inconsistent, and was not even shown in the concept art, with Toriyama himself drew. Chances are Toriyama just got tired of drawing lightning all the time, so decided to just keep it out.

"You can't wave away Toriyama's own art for the difference between MSSJ and SSJ2 Gohan. Toriyama drew that concept art. And he didn't put lightning in it. It was used in both anime and manga, and drawn by Akira Toriyama for DBZ. It should be canon. "

AT designed it for the Anime not for the Manga. So movies are canon now? The lightening don't always appear in the Anime and Movies but the Manga always shows the lightening.

I like when you don't even bother to read my explaination. Gohan had two bangs stand as a SSJ in the Great Saiyaman Saga. I already explained in my post that AT drew SSJ2 and SSJ Goahn with 1 bnag stands during the World Tourment, this is why he had one bang stands when he saw Videl getting beaten and was a SSJ.

Gohan had pale skin, sharper aura and sipke hair when he fought Broly yet he never had those signs when he fought Dabura. Every SSJ2 has lightening in the Manga and Gohan didn't since he was a SSJ. AT drew Gohan's hair with one bang since the World Tourment. Gohan never even had the badass look vs Dabura like he did vs Broly hence he was a SSJ, it's a fact. Don't compare Movies and Anime to Manga. In the Movies and Anime the lightening are neglecyted but every SSJ2 has lightening in the Manga. Toriyama drew it in the Anime and Movies for Toei, not in the Manga so it's diffrent and AT never got tired this is just your excuse. If he did so why did he use lightening for Goku and Magin Vegeta at the same time Gohan was attacking Buu's shell??
Edited by pakl123456, May 25 2012, 05:22 PM.
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GridZero
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Lol at this going 3 pages. It's an opinion, not a fact. Not that there's a problem with that.

This is bordering obsession now though.
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Super Vegetto
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Im just wondering why AT didnt put lightning for Gokus burst SSJ2 ? Maybe he was saving it for dramatic effect to tranform against Vegeta ?

Or this is FPSSJ ?
Spoiler: click to toggle
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pakl123456
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Super Vegetto
May 25 2012, 06:07 PM
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Im just wondering why AT didnt put lightning for Gokus burst SSJ2 ? Maybe he was saving it for dramatic effect to tranform against Vegeta ?

Or this is FPSSJ ?
No. Goku's aura was not shown besides it was burst SSJ2, he was not at FP.
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* Lord Cooler
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Lord of the Ice-Jins

pakl123456 stop double/triple posting.

Forum rule number 2 - No spamming, posting to gain a high post count, double/triple posting (use the edit button), contributing to spam outside of spam areas.

Oh and by the way. Gohan was obviously SS3. GOSH!
Edited by Lord Cooler, May 26 2012, 03:02 AM.
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Thanks to + Rebel X for the awesome sig above.
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Thanks to Anonymous23 (Ana) for the awesome sig above.

Don't forget to participate in the Dragon Ball Rewatch!

Lord Cooler - I am the supreme master of this universe.
I am the great destroyer, the taker of life.
I kill when I want, the weak die and the strong survive.
Saiyan insect, prepare to be squashed.
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Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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pakl123456
May 25 2012, 05:19 PM
Son Gohan
May 25 2012, 04:55 PM
pakl123456
May 25 2012, 04:17 PM
Super Vegetto
May 25 2012, 04:13 PM
Lightning is important factor for SSJ2 ? So you whant to say that Gohan movie 10 was actualy SSJ ?

Posted Image

Posted Image

Daizenshuu says that he is SSJ2. So concpet art is wrong or ?
Anime is not Manga and of course Gohan was a SSJ2 vs Broly. I even made a thread proving it. Anime neglects the lightening but the Manga doesn't. For example SSJ2 Vegeta had no lightening vs Kid Buu but he did have in the Manga since every SSJ2 has lightening in the Manga. Using non canon is baseless.
In Anime you can be SSJ2 without lightening since you have pale skin. spikier hair and abadass look. Gohan never had that look nor pale skin when he fought Dabura not even in the Anime.

Gohan was a SSJ in the Manga when he battled the Demon King=FACT!!!!
You can't wave away Toriyama's own art for the difference between MSSJ and SSJ2 Gohan. Toriyama drew that concept art. And he didn't put lightning in it. It was used in both anime and manga, and drawn by Akira Toriyama for DBZ. It should be canon.

Subtle differences between MSSJ and SSJ2 in that picture:

- SSJ2 has more spikes in the hair for Gohan
- SSJ2 has one long bang, as opposed to MSSJ having one long bang and one short bang
- SSJ2 has more lines in the hair, as opposed to MSSJ having much less lines in the hair
- The eyes are a bit more condensed, or furrowed downwards, in SSJ2. Generally, a fiercer look on the face.

Golden Fighter Gohan 1
Golden Fighter Gohan 2
Golden Fighter Gohan 3

Notice how the hair is much less detailed (less lines drawn in it), and how there are not as many spikes in it. And of course, the two bangs. This all points to Gohan obviously being MSSJ

SSJ2 Gohan at Budokai

Notice how much more spikes there are in his hair compared to his MSSJ form. Furthermore, his eyes are much more furrowed downwards, and his face is fiercer. Now, compare that picture to:

Daiz Gohan Concept Art

In the lower right is MSSJ Gohan smiling. Right above that is a fiercer looking SSJ2 Gohan. Notice how that pic of Gohan is almost exactly the same as the picture of SSJ2 Gohan at the Budokai, except with different clothing. The posture, the look, the hair, and even the position of the head is exactly the same.

Gohan at Dabra 1
Gohan at Dabra 2

Notice the telltale signs:

- More spikes than Golden Fighter Gohan
- Fiercer look
- One long bang

So the artwork is actually going a bit against you. Furthermore, the lightning is inconsistent, and was not even shown in the concept art, with Toriyama himself drew. Chances are Toriyama just got tired of drawing lightning all the time, so decided to just keep it out.

"You can't wave away Toriyama's own art for the difference between MSSJ and SSJ2 Gohan. Toriyama drew that concept art. And he didn't put lightning in it. It was used in both anime and manga, and drawn by Akira Toriyama for DBZ. It should be canon. "

AT designed it for the Anime not for the Manga. So movies are canon now? The lightening don't always appear in the Anime and Movies but the Manga always shows the lightening.

I like when you don't even bother to read my explaination. Gohan had two bangs stand as a SSJ in the Great Saiyaman Saga. I already explained in my post that AT drew SSJ2 and SSJ Goahn with 1 bnag stands during the World Tourment, this is why he had one bang stands when he saw Videl getting beaten and was a SSJ.

Gohan had pale skin, sharper aura and sipke hair when he fought Broly yet he never had those signs when he fought Dabura. Every SSJ2 has lightening in the Manga and Gohan didn't since he was a SSJ. AT drew Gohan's hair with one bang since the World Tourment. Gohan never even had the badass look vs Dabura like he did vs Broly hence he was a SSJ, it's a fact. Don't compare Movies and Anime to Manga. In the Movies and Anime the lightening are neglecyted but every SSJ2 has lightening in the Manga. Toriyama drew it in the Anime and Movies for Toei, not in the Manga so it's diffrent and AT never got tired this is just your excuse. If he did so why did he use lightening for Goku and Magin Vegeta at the same time Gohan was attacking Buu's shell??
Did you not see this:

Daiz Gohan Concept Art
SSJ2 Gohan at Budokai

The pictures of SSJ2 Gohan are almost exactly the same in both. I'm pretty sure Toriyama either used the sheet for reference for drawing Gohan in the manga, or vice versa.
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amsmagic
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The Magic Man. Aka Street Magician

If Gohan was a SSJ, that would mean Vegeta had yet to achieve SSJ2 form. And trust me, I've been proven wrong on that topic in the most heated debate I've had on these forums.

Gohan was a SSJ2, it's a design flaw. Put yourself in the artists shoes, you would have design flaws as well. All the other forum members have presented a mountain of evidence that disproofs your beliefs, so I don't feel the need to add anymore but just back them up in their claims.

In concerns to the world tournament.

Gohan did not have any rage dwelling inside of him when he turned SSJ2 against Kaibito. He was embarrassed, shy, and confused. You need to re look at that.

Also, it is possible when Gohan turned SSJ when he saw Videl being beat down, that when his raged poured out of him he actually went SSJ2, just with the design flaw. According to your logic on the subject, that would make accurate since.
Edited by amsmagic, May 26 2012, 03:00 AM.
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Typing from an iPad. Please excuse any and all typo's or meaningless errors. Typing with two thumbs that are holding a 9.7" Portait screen is more difficult than I planned. Lol.
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Billa
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Thala na Gethu!

Sorry for my frankness, but instead of SSJ2 or SSJ Gohan vs Dabura, the intention of this topic seem to driven more towards discussion purpose, so, shouldn't this topic be in DBZ Discussion & hardly lies on Versus aspect...
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pakl123456
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Son Gohan
May 26 2012, 02:54 AM
pakl123456
May 25 2012, 05:19 PM
Son Gohan
May 25 2012, 04:55 PM
pakl123456
May 25 2012, 04:17 PM
Super Vegetto
May 25 2012, 04:13 PM
Lightning is important factor for SSJ2 ? So you whant to say that Gohan movie 10 was actualy SSJ ?

Posted Image

Posted Image

Daizenshuu says that he is SSJ2. So concpet art is wrong or ?
Anime is not Manga and of course Gohan was a SSJ2 vs Broly. I even made a thread proving it. Anime neglects the lightening but the Manga doesn't. For example SSJ2 Vegeta had no lightening vs Kid Buu but he did have in the Manga since every SSJ2 has lightening in the Manga. Using non canon is baseless.
In Anime you can be SSJ2 without lightening since you have pale skin. spikier hair and abadass look. Gohan never had that look nor pale skin when he fought Dabura not even in the Anime.

Gohan was a SSJ in the Manga when he battled the Demon King=FACT!!!!
You can't wave away Toriyama's own art for the difference between MSSJ and SSJ2 Gohan. Toriyama drew that concept art. And he didn't put lightning in it. It was used in both anime and manga, and drawn by Akira Toriyama for DBZ. It should be canon.

Subtle differences between MSSJ and SSJ2 in that picture:

- SSJ2 has more spikes in the hair for Gohan
- SSJ2 has one long bang, as opposed to MSSJ having one long bang and one short bang
- SSJ2 has more lines in the hair, as opposed to MSSJ having much less lines in the hair
- The eyes are a bit more condensed, or furrowed downwards, in SSJ2. Generally, a fiercer look on the face.

Golden Fighter Gohan 1
Golden Fighter Gohan 2
Golden Fighter Gohan 3

Notice how the hair is much less detailed (less lines drawn in it), and how there are not as many spikes in it. And of course, the two bangs. This all points to Gohan obviously being MSSJ

SSJ2 Gohan at Budokai

Notice how much more spikes there are in his hair compared to his MSSJ form. Furthermore, his eyes are much more furrowed downwards, and his face is fiercer. Now, compare that picture to:

Daiz Gohan Concept Art

In the lower right is MSSJ Gohan smiling. Right above that is a fiercer looking SSJ2 Gohan. Notice how that pic of Gohan is almost exactly the same as the picture of SSJ2 Gohan at the Budokai, except with different clothing. The posture, the look, the hair, and even the position of the head is exactly the same.

Gohan at Dabra 1
Gohan at Dabra 2

Notice the telltale signs:

- More spikes than Golden Fighter Gohan
- Fiercer look
- One long bang

So the artwork is actually going a bit against you. Furthermore, the lightning is inconsistent, and was not even shown in the concept art, with Toriyama himself drew. Chances are Toriyama just got tired of drawing lightning all the time, so decided to just keep it out.

"You can't wave away Toriyama's own art for the difference between MSSJ and SSJ2 Gohan. Toriyama drew that concept art. And he didn't put lightning in it. It was used in both anime and manga, and drawn by Akira Toriyama for DBZ. It should be canon. "

AT designed it for the Anime not for the Manga. So movies are canon now? The lightening don't always appear in the Anime and Movies but the Manga always shows the lightening.

I like when you don't even bother to read my explaination. Gohan had two bangs stand as a SSJ in the Great Saiyaman Saga. I already explained in my post that AT drew SSJ2 and SSJ Goahn with 1 bnag stands during the World Tourment, this is why he had one bang stands when he saw Videl getting beaten and was a SSJ.

Gohan had pale skin, sharper aura and sipke hair when he fought Broly yet he never had those signs when he fought Dabura. Every SSJ2 has lightening in the Manga and Gohan didn't since he was a SSJ. AT drew Gohan's hair with one bang since the World Tourment. Gohan never even had the badass look vs Dabura like he did vs Broly hence he was a SSJ, it's a fact. Don't compare Movies and Anime to Manga. In the Movies and Anime the lightening are neglecyted but every SSJ2 has lightening in the Manga. Toriyama drew it in the Anime and Movies for Toei, not in the Manga so it's diffrent and AT never got tired this is just your excuse. If he did so why did he use lightening for Goku and Magin Vegeta at the same time Gohan was attacking Buu's shell??
Did you not see this:

Daiz Gohan Concept Art
SSJ2 Gohan at Budokai

The pictures of SSJ2 Gohan are almost exactly the same in both. I'm pretty sure Toriyama either used the sheet for reference for drawing Gohan in the manga, or vice versa.
No, he used the SSJ2 form for movie 10 not for the Manga. He used lightening in the Manga.
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pakl123456
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amsmagic
May 26 2012, 02:59 AM
If Gohan was a SSJ, that would mean Vegeta had yet to achieve SSJ2 form. And trust me, I've been proven wrong on that topic in the most heated debate I've had on these forums.

Gohan was a SSJ2, it's a design flaw. Put yourself in the artists shoes, you would have design flaws as well. All the other forum members have presented a mountain of evidence that disproofs your beliefs, so I don't feel the need to add anymore but just back them up in their claims.

In concerns to the world tournament.

Gohan did not have any rage dwelling inside of him when he turned SSJ2 against Kaibito. He was embarrassed, shy, and confused. You need to re look at that.

Also, it is possible when Gohan turned SSJ when he saw Videl being beat down, that when his raged poured out of him he actually went SSJ2, just with the design flaw. According to your logic on the subject, that would make accurate since.
I showed much more points from the Manga while people here can't show me a fact in the Manga that he was SSJ2 so no noone debunked ny posts. Gohan was a SSJ when he saw Videl getting beaten. If he was a SSJ so why was Kibito and Supreme Kai surprised about his power when he transformed against Kibito if he apperently was a SSJ2 when he saw Videl getting beaten??? Gohan was a SSJ. There is no flaw. Everyone has lightening in the Manga and Gohan never did when he saw Videl getting beaten when fighting Dabura and when he released the Z sword. Besides Gohan's first transformation as a SSJ2 was agaisnt Kibito. This is why it took him a pretty long time and had to be dramatic. I can't understand what makes you think he was a SSJ2 vs Dabura if I already posted enough facts from the Manga. Gohan was angry when he faced Kibito, he had the anger with him after seeing Videl's beatdown. Look at his expression when he went SSJ2 vs Kibito, he looked angry. You said you showed me statements which debunk mine however you are just saying it's a flaw withou any basic proof. Show me proof in the Manga which supports him as a SSJ2. there is non. He was a SSJ.
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